Parker in 2024

[mr T.]

3 hours ago, Azulado said:

Preis inkl. mw st", do you know what that means? 1.19 from VAT

The only difference is that AliExpress collects the VAT and not the courier or the tax authorities. The courier will stil be charging an administration fee/clearance fee and there will still be other costs involved (like banking of creditcard fees). That means however also that a low end pen imported from China (that can be bought for less in an EU based shop) will be costing more than €20,-. In the past (before 2021) no VAT or clearance fees were charged as long as the value of the pen (or other product) was less than €22,-. I already stated, most Chinese pens were bought from AliExpress or eBay direct from a Chinese seller for very low prices. Due to the mentioned changes in EU VAT-rules in 2021 and international postal rules cheap from China became definitely much more expensive. In 2019 I ordered myself from AliExpress a couple of Jinhao X750's for less than €2,- per pen (including p&p). The same pens will cost at least six times more at the moment (and imported direct from China probably even more).

 

3 hours ago, Azulado said:

When I buy in Germany from Spain, I don't add the administration fee/clearance fee of the courier.

If the item is not only bought from Spain but also shipped to Spain, of course not. Germany and Spain are EU-members and the transaction takes place in the common market. Only the seller has to declare VAT to the tax authorities and pricing has to include VAT.

 

3 hours ago, Azulado said:

 Why do you go on to talk about pens over €150?

To include the import duties. It also shows how and why competition for the Chinese pen makers is over in the EU. In the past they could only compete on shipping and price, not on quality. Nowadays, manufacturers like Parker and Waterman (probably also Bic, Stabilo, Schneider and Lamy) offer better pens at better prices than the Chinese manufacturers.

3 hours ago, Azulado said:

This aficionado is from Berlin, is he any good to you? He paid 14 euros for a St Penpps DS.

https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38661

The only thing he says here is that he paid € 14,- to AliExpress.

 

3 hours ago, Azulado said:

In both Spain and Brazil, the Chinese Post has agreements with the Brazilian and Spanish Posts. There is no additional cost for shipping.

https://www.packlink.es/blog/aduanas-envios-aliexpress/

The information here is outdated and incorrect. The article states,for example, that tariffs for products with a sales invoice amount equal to or less than €22 have a rate of 0%. The truth is that there is no such a 0% tariff anywhere in the EU anymore. The tariffs and rules are the same in the EU.

[Heinkle]

On 2/4/2024 at 5:11 PM, Heinkle said:

Coincidentally, I’ve just seen on the Parker instagram page they are launching something called the “Pioneers” collection across the fountain pen range. The tag line is “for those who move the world forward”. 

 

Looks to be a gold and metallic grey theme. I think the Duofold is the metal Prestige model (rather than the standard plastic compound). 

 

The Online Pen Company are now showing the Pioneers collection Centennial Prestige on their website (albeit seemingly out of stock), priced at £1250:

 

The Duofold includes an 18-carat solid gold bi-tonal rhodium-plated nib, complimented with a grey lacquer barrel and 23-carat gold plated cap and trim.

[Beechwood]

1 hour ago, Heinkle said:

 

The Online Pen Company are now showing the Pioneers collection Centennial Prestige on their website (albeit seemingly out of stock), priced at £1250:

 

The Duofold includes an 18-carat solid gold bi-tonal rhodium-plated nib, complimented with a grey lacquer barrel and 23-carat gold plated cap and trim.

 

 

I may be behind the times but isn't £1250 really too much to pay for a Parker or any other pen with a filling system that was invented by the Neanderthals?

 

Perhaps its just me, I squeak when I walk.

[Heinkle]

58 minutes ago, Beechwood said:

 

 

I may be behind the times but isn't £1250 really too much to pay for a Parker or any other pen with a filling system that was invented by the Neanderthals?

 

Perhaps it’s just me, I squeak when I walk.

The corporate direction of travel for the Duofold is high price SE and LE models (presumably to play in the “Montblanc” market).

 

Since 2021, off the top of my head, we’ve had the 100th anniversary trio, the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee model, and most recently the 135th anniversary. The RRP of each has been at least £1000, though the jubilee model was over double that.

 

In that sense, this Pioneer model pricing is par for the course (especially as a fully metal pen). 
 

My main objection is that this has come at the expense of the standard Duofold line, which has not seen new additions since about 2016, and which has been gradually rationalised to four models (big red, black/gold, black/platinum, blue chevron).

[inkstainedruth]

2 hours ago, Beechwood said:

 

 

I may be behind the times but isn't £1250 really too much to pay for a Parker or any other pen with a filling system that was invented by the Neanderthals?

 

Perhaps its just me, I squeak when I walk.

I was kinda thinking the same thing (except maybe for the fill system part).  And that was even BEFORE I plugged the price into the online currency exchange site to tell me roughly how much that price is in US dollars.... 

Honestly, from the photos of the pen that Heinkle posted, I'd have priced it at maybe $200 US at MOST....  Because it looks kinda cheesy.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[Beechwood]

29 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

I was kinda thinking the same thing (except maybe for the fill system part).  And that was even BEFORE I plugged the price into the online currency exchange site to tell me roughly how much that price is in US dollars.... 

Honestly, from the photos of the pen that Heinkle posted, I'd have priced it at maybe $200 US at MOST....  Because it looks kinda cheesy.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

 

That is $1570, just seems a lot of money to me, especially when many are struggling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

Yeah, especially given that I think the most I EVERY paid for a Parker was maybe $120 US (including the buyer's premium) for a vintage 51 with an OB nib, at the Saturday night auction at a pen show a few years ago.   And the most I ever paid for ANY pen was for the Pelikan M405 Streseman, and I saved some money by getting it from Rolf Thiel on his eBay store (so didn't have to pay the US distributor markup, OR VAT -- and at the time eBay didn't collect sales tax).  

Somehow I JUST cannot believe that this pen is worth 13x what that vintage 51 Aero cost me....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Glenn-SC]

When the bottom price for a MB FP is over $500 is is difficult to imagine anyone getting upset that Parker offers expensive models as well.  And I am not discussing price versus value.  If the purpose of a “pen” is to adequately apply ink to paper then anything more elaborate (or expensive) than a Bic Stik is vanity. If the purpose is words on paper then stop at a No 2 pencil and denigrate anything more expensive.
Any yet people are willing to pay for other or special colors, other or special trim, other or special filling systems, etc.  

And people are willing to pay extra for rare, unusual, or out-of-production examples of these pens.  Are they “worth the price” in excess of a Stik or a No 2?  They are to “someones”  otherwise companies wouldn’t produce these pens and people wouldn’t be willing to pay these prices.  
If your price point for a pen is $50, $100, $500 or whatever, great.  Enjoy the writing within your price comfort zone.  But, don’t disparage those people who enjoy a price point greater that yours. 
 

[Estycollector]

Let's consider a pocket knife using your idea. Any knife is a knife in the teleological sense. That does not prove that all knives are the same. Given the nature of this forum, experience tells us that a Bic does not represent all pens in function or form. 

 

 

[Mercian]

On 2/14/2024 at 8:25 PM, Beechwood said:

 

 

That is $1570, just seems a lot of money to me, especially when many are struggling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you.

And the pricing of that pen reminds me again of the (in my opinion, unjustifiable) pricing for the Duofold ‘135th Anniversary’ pen. And the pricing (& the marketing shpeel) that NR Parker uses for its Ingenuity fountain pen.

 

It seems that NR is trying to move its ‘Parker’ brand into the ‘luxury brand’ market that e.g.s Montblanc & Hugo Boss operate in.
i.e. intending to sell the pens marketed under their ‘Parker’ brand to rich people, on the promise of perceived-cachet-through-association-with-Marketing-image.
As opposed to selling pens (or whatever) that can be sold at high prices (and have perceived cachet) because they are beautiful, really well-made, and offer exceptional functionality to the ‘consumer’.

 

As for the idea of re-positioning the ‘brand’ into one that occupies the ‘for rich folks only’ market, one can easily understand why NR might want to do it.
After all, during the global recession caused by the falsely-marketed-new-exotic-derivates crash of 2008, although most people found that their incomes fell - and certainly that their disposable income fell - the richest actually got a lot richer.
This trend (rapid increase of disposable income of the richest) has not gone away.

 

And after all, you don’t get rich by trying to sell ‘discretionary purchase’ products to people who don’t have any money to spend on discretionary purchases.

 

[This is, I think, the explanation for the fact that no pharmaceutical company has yet developed a vaccine for malaria. Even though not a few of them are very large, wealthy, have high-tech laboratories and production facilities, and have very-capable scientists & production engineers working for them.
I wouldn’t think that creating a viable vaccine for malaria is ‘beyond the wit of mortal man’/the capability of modern technological science - but the costs of developing that vaccine, and then conducting the trials necessary to prove that it was both safe and effective, and then distributing it to the people who most need it, would certainly be of the ‘non-trivial’ kind.

How would anyone then be able to make a profit on those vast development, production, and distribution costs when most of the potential ‘customers’ for the product are not only in hard-to-reach locations, but also members of the no-discretionary-income ‘global poor’?]

 

So, if NR were to gradually reposition its ‘Parker’ brand into the ‘for rich folks only’ market, although many of us here on FPN might not like it, and/or mourn the ‘decline’ of what was once a great pen-maker, we can understand the motivation, and we certainly cannot say that the logic behind it does not make sound commercial sense.

[Glenn-SC]

28 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

Let's consider a pocket knife using your idea. Any knife is a knife in the teleological sense. That does not prove that all knives are the same. Given the nature of this forum, experience tells us that a Bic does not represent all pens in function or form. 

 

 

Correct.

And yet some people complain when you want to pay $20 more for a pocket knife with bone scales instead of black plastic scales (“because the pocket knife with the black plastic scales work just as well and by the way I’ve never paid for than $20 for a pocket knife and paying double for something ‘prettier’ knife is a waste of money and I can’t afford the knife with the bone scales”). 
All knives cut but some cut better than others and some look better than others and some do both. Buck and Boker and Benchmade all make knives that do the same thing, it is OK to buy and use all three, even though you only need one, and it is OK to buy the pretty Boker even though it is more expensive. 

[Heinkle]

13 hours ago, Mercian said:

As for the idea of re-positioning the ‘brand’ into one that occupies the ‘for rich folks only’ market, one can easily understand why NR might want to do it.

 

Indeed, though they have a long way to go with their line-up and branding/marketing approach to be in that conversation.

 

Everyone in the Boardroom/law firm/bank knows the cachet of the snowpeak in the jacket pocket, and the black cigar shape has a natural corporate fit - but what does Parker have that isn't also on its Jotters and Vectors? They can continue to price pens highly, but if the flagship product remains as uninspiring as the 135th anniversary offering, who are they kidding? They will have to rely on senseless hardcore fans like me.

 

Ironically, the more the brand leans on the George Parker legacy, the more apparent it is NR has eschewed his commitment to excellence and innovation.

 

[Estycollector]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:08 PM, Glenn-SC said:

Correct.

And yet some people complain when you want to pay $20 more for a pocket knife with bone scales instead of black plastic scales (“because the pocket knife with the black plastic scales work just as well and by the way I’ve never paid for than $20 for a pocket knife and paying double for something ‘prettier’ knife is a waste of money and I can’t afford the knife with the bone scales”). 
All knives cut but some cut better than others and some look better than others and some do both. Buck and Boker and Benchmade all make knives that do the same thing, it is OK to buy and use all three, even though you only need one, and it is OK to buy the pretty Boker even though it is more expensive. 

Ironically, I found a Milwaukee Tool Knife, spring assist, tanto with partial serrated blade for $21 recently at Home Depot. While I love the Gerber Cleaver and Japanese made Cold Steel Tanto, this D2 steel Milwaukee is amazingly sharp and easy to spruce up on the Thuringian stone. The spring assist did take some getting used to. Switch blades were illegal during my grandfather's era. I guess they aren't anymore. He kept his in the drawer...lol!

 

I don't disparage what others choose to do with their resources. I hesitate to say what is best just because I think it is best without adding a disclaimer. I had a MB 149 in the early '90's, but it worked no better for me than the vintage 51's or Esterbrook Dollars. For me, a pen that glides easily and lays down a fine line helps my otherwise poor handwriting. 

[TheRedBeard]

On 2/15/2024 at 3:48 PM, Glenn-SC said:

When the bottom price for a MB FP is over $500 is is difficult to imagine anyone getting upset that Parker offers expensive models as well.  And I am not discussing price versus value.  If the purpose of a “pen” is to adequately apply ink to paper then anything more elaborate (or expensive) than a Bic Stik is vanity. If the purpose is words on paper then stop at a No 2 pencil and denigrate anything more expensive.
Any yet people are willing to pay for other or special colors, other or special trim, other or special filling systems, etc.  

And people are willing to pay extra for rare, unusual, or out-of-production examples of these pens.  Are they “worth the price” in excess of a Stik or a No 2?  They are to “someones”  otherwise companies wouldn’t produce these pens and people wouldn’t be willing to pay these prices.  
If your price point for a pen is $50, $100, $500 or whatever, great.  Enjoy the writing within your price comfort zone.  But, don’t disparage those people who enjoy a price point greater that yours. 
 

Well said, Glenn. 

[TheRedBeard]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:55 PM, Heinkle said:

 

The Online Pen Company are now showing the Pioneers collection Centennial Prestige on their website (albeit seemingly out of stock), priced at £1250:

 

The Duofold includes an 18-carat solid gold bi-tonal rhodium-plated nib, complimented with a grey lacquer barrel and 23-carat gold plated cap and trim.

Thank you for this information...

At least, it is interesting to try it "live" one day.

However, in spite of being devoted Parker collector if I were in an immediate position to splash out £1,250 then I would certainly buy Yard-O-Led Viceroy Grand Victorian...

 

 

[mr T.]

 

On 2/16/2024 at 1:37 AM, Mercian said:

It seems that NR is trying to move its ‘Parker’ brand into the ‘luxury brand’ market that e.g.s Montblanc & Hugo Boss operate in. i.e. intending to sell the pens marketed under their ‘Parker’ brand to rich people, on the promise of perceived-cachet-through-association-with-Marketing-image. 

Not really. Montbllanc operates, with ( in my opinon mediocre) low volume high margin products, in a higher segment of the market. That is probably also why Montblanc seems to be focussing more on selling their products in B&M stores than on online sales. It is a segment of the market that has done really well in the last years. It is not that difficult to see what NR is doing here if one looks at their brand portfolio. Their Reynolds products have to compete with ultra cheap no name Chinese and Indian pens, the Paper Mate brand will be used as the competitor againt Bic and cheap disposable Japanese pens, Parker is mid end and probably Waterman will be their 'exclusive' brand. The real problem for NR is how to position Paper Mate and Waterman. Parker, if one likes their products or not, will likely continue to be a huge commercial succes in the low end to mid end market (and will continue as one of the best selling brands in terms of volume). 

 

[Heinkle]

3 hours ago, mr T. said:

Parker, if one likes their products or not, will likely continue to be a huge commercial succes in the low end to mid end market (and will continue as one of the best selling brands in terms of volume). 

 

…which is great if you love the Sonnet, IM or Ingenuity, but less so if you were hoping for greater investment in the Duofold line

[welch]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:14 AM, Heinkle said:

…which is great if you love the Sonnet, IM or Ingenuity, but less so if you were hoping for greater investment in the Duofold line

 

I'm not sure what greater investment Parker might make in the modern Duofold, or, for that matter, what investment MontBlanc(Richemont?) makes. MB sells the same three fountain pens year after year, and releases another limited edition with various types of glitz. They have not changed a design since they revived after WW2.

 

Parker released the first successful cartridge / converter in 1960, with the P-45. That ended the competition between Sheaffer and Parker for cleanest, most user-friendly, filling system. That was about the last innovation in fountain pens, and the writing instrument market shifted to ballpoints with portable electric type writers, and then to personal computers with lazar-printers, and variations. 

 

I'm sure someone will arrive to tell us that Parker needs to develop a product as innovative as the P-51 was in 1940-41. As if the market has not changed.  

[Heinkle]

2 hours ago, welch said:

 

I'm not sure what greater investment Parker might make in the modern Duofold, or, for that matter, what investment MontBlanc(Richemont?) makes. MB sells the same three fountain pens year after year, and releases another limited edition with various types of glitz. They have not changed a design since they revived after WW2.

While this is a fair comment, I would say that throughout the 90s and 2000s, Parker did offer some decent variation to the standard line of Duofold models alongside the special editions. The current line-up has been gradually rationalised to three plain plastic and one patterned metal (“prestige”) finish, largely unchanged since 2016.

 

Maybe Parker’s commercial strategy is to save money. A shame if so, especially when so many of their competitors are innovating their base lines. 

[Checklist]

21 hours ago, welch said:

I'm sure someone will arrive to tell us that Parker needs to develop a product as innovative as the P-51 was in 1940-41. As if the market has not changed.  

My complaint is more that the pens don't reflect the quality you'd expect at the price.  I would rather not have a cartridge/converter pen, but I won't condemn a company for putting out a reliable, popular filling system.  It's that the IM is twice the cost of a Pilot Metropolitan, despite being of similar quality.  Or the difference in a new Parker 51 Deluxe and a Lamy 2000 at the same price.  Looking at the other Western brands, though, maybe it's Lamy and the Japanese brands that are the aberrations.  In that case, it's just my emotional connection to Parker leading me to expect so much from them.