Parker in 2024

[Mercian]

Just to be clear, I am actually ‘a fan’ of Parker pens.

 

I grew up using Parker rollerballs and ballpoints in High School and at university. Parker was considered to be the ‘posh’ or ‘good’ brand during my formative years.

My first ever fountain pen was a Parker. So were my second and third fountain pens.

My first vintage pen was a Parker, and I have a fair few of those now.

Just today I received delivery of my first Sonnet.

 

But my most recent purchase of a brand new, currently-in-production Parker was a few years ago - and it was a Luxor-made all-steel Vector. A pen that was designed at Newhaven in the 1980s.

Before that, I bought two Luxor-made Frontiers (another Newhaven design).

 

My most-recent purchase of a currently-produced Parker pen made by Parker was back when I bought a first series Parker Urban - which was back in 2012!
I have since bought three more of those Urbans, all ‘pre-owned’ or NOS on the ‘secondary market’.

And the Sonnet that I got today was another pre-owned pen, made in 2007, and it is another Newhaven-era design.

 

I would like to buy a Duofold Centennial (another Newhaven design), but the one of those that I want is a model/colour that was made back in 2006.

 

Perhaps my aesthetic tastes are just ‘stuck in the past’?

I don’t know; I do like the look of some of the funkier designs on the modern IM - but I already have a lot of Parker c/c models of that price-point, so I don’t feel a particular need to buy any more. Even though I don’t yet have a pen that uses that model’s nib.

I also like the look of some of the ‘fancier’ currently-produced Sonnets - but I have decided to ‘test’ out the model by buying an inexpensive pre-owned one before committing the money to buy an expensive current-production one.

Not least because the modern Sonnets that I like the look of are c/c pens that cost enough money to cover the price of some really good Pelikan piston-fill pens.

[Heinkle]

10 hours ago, Mercian said:

My overall impression is that NR has no idea what it is attempting to do with the Parker ‘brand’.

 

This was a really astute post and I agree with pretty much everything you say.

 

Having given more thought to what the Parker brand is, I completely agree that there are two major failings: i) their approach to pen collections and ii) their marketing.

 

On the collections, as you say, they have blurred the USP of their own lines with confusing price points and myriad variants with inconsistent value inflation. They have then proceeded to blatantly cut costs by making parts interchangeable across brands within the corporate monolith. It's like they keep changing their mind without much effort to make the whole offering coherent, letting lines gradually disappear without explanation. Can you imagine Pelikan doing that? 

 

I am also pretty sure Parker have just stopped producing the Duofold International model - you won't find an announcement or press release, but you also can't find stock anywhere other than a few places who haven't sold out, and it's no longer on the Parker website. I defy you to locate a brand new Big Red International. Why did they make this decision and why not be honest about it?

 

Then the marketing. On Amazon, the Parker store is a mess of outdated marketing (e.g. promoting gift packaging that they stopped using long ago). Similarly, the UK Parker website still shows the 2021 100th Anniversary LEs (labelled as "new"), but these are largely sold out in 2024. The strange thing is it's almost like Parker doesn't really want you to buy their pens. As someone pointed out on Reddit, their own website allows you to browse and select pens as if you can buy directly from the manufacturer, only to then list a series of online retailers, none of whom sell the whole range of pens. It's such a mish-mash of stock without rhyme or reason.

 

I would love if they did some focus groups with people who actually care about their brand - but then maybe they don't care enough themselves and are essentially sweating the asset into the ground.

[Number99]

On 2/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, ZeroDukE said:

That is changing... though some people can't see it yet.  But I agree that will be good for the fountain pen community.

 

On 2/7/2024 at 5:15 AM, Estycollector said:

There should be no question that Wing Sung could makes as good a pen as can be made. Knowing your market is the way, however, to stay profitable. 

They are offering a limited edition, but not $500, 2000 Chinese yuan 18k sterling silver fountain pen.

 

People in China are said to enjoy a courteous return and exchange service, but there is no information on whether this is in effect for overseas users as well.

 

Yongsheng (Wing Sung) Junlai 629 sterling silver standard 18K limited edition.

限量永生君箂629纯银标准18K金笔

*Image from TAOBAO's Shanghai Junlaii official store.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Estycollector]

Thank you for posting the information on the Yongsheng (Wing Sung) Junlai 629 sterling silver standard 18K limited edition. @Number99

 

 

[Number99]

40 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

Thank you for posting the information on the Yongsheng (Wing Sung) Junlai 629 sterling silver standard 18K limited edition. @Number99

 

 

Perhaps someone has already mentioned this pen in the Chinese sub-forum.

 

The "永生" or Wing Sung is transliterated into "Yong-sheng" by Google Translate and other browser translation software, so it may be difficult to find from Western search engines.

As you know, they seem to produce a certain amount of gold nib pens.

I am curious as to how much PARKER would charge for a pen similar to the one above, if it were produced by them, contrary to the previous discussion.

 

[Mercian]

8 minutes ago, Number99 said:

I am curious as to how much PARKER would charge for a pen similar to the one above, if it were produced by them, contrary to the previous discussion.

Parker does still produce the Sonnet in Sterling Silver Ciselé with an 18k gold nib.

The price of that pen might be a good basis on which to form an estimate.

 

That said, Parker are based in the EU, so if they were to try to produce a pen that looked exactly like that particular Wing Sung, Montblanc would sue them -  and win the case, and get the production of the pen banned - on the grounds that it resembles Montblanc’s sterling silver 146 pens so closely as to infringe Montblanc’s copyright.

 

Montblanc did exactly that when Inoxcrom made their ‘Caravel’ pen.

[Number99]

16 minutes ago, Mercian said:

Parker does still produce the Sonnet in Sterling Silver Ciselé with an 18k gold nib.

The price of that pen might be a good basis on which to form an estimate.

 

That said, Parker are based in the EU, so if they were to try to produce a pen that looked exactly like that particular Wing Sung, Montblanc would sue them -  and win the case, and get the production of the pen banned - on the grounds that it resembles Montblanc’s sterling silver 146 pens so closely as to infringe Montblanc’s copyright.

 

Montblanc did exactly that when Inoxcrom made their ‘Caravel’ pen.

True.

Websites such as zhihu.com in China are also littered with posts ridiculing their pens as cousins of Montblanc and Sailor.

I checked and they were almost identical to the actual market price of Sonnet's Sterling Silver.

I don't own either of them, but if I had to buy one of them I would be very confused.

[Estycollector]

I think it would be cool if Parker faithfully reproduced the double jewel early 51. 

[Number99]

1 hour ago, Estycollector said:

I think it would be cool if Parker faithfully reproduced the double jewel early 51. 

That is also true.

[Mercian]

On 2/7/2024 at 10:26 PM, Mercian said:

The Waterman website is not this messed-up. So what the vorsprung durch technik is going-on with the Parker website? Seriously, is anyone responsible for maintaining it?

A Slight Correction needed:

I was just browsing the Waterman website, in order to find out what Waterman had re-named its turquoise ink to - being rather old & stuck in my ways I still always think of it as ‘South Seas Blue’.

 

I clicked through to the page for ‘bottled inks’, and then found that I had to click on the ‘+4’ link in order to be able to see all of the company’s inks 🤨

When going to click on the small circular colour swatches, I noticed that the Waterman website is today, in February 2024, still captioning its inks with e.g.s ‘Florida Blue’ and ‘South Seas Blue’.

These are the names that the company changed in 2012 

 
Luckily for me, at least the Marketing wonks have managed to update to photographs of the current ink bottles, so I was able to remind myself that the ink formerly known as ‘South Seas Blue’ is now called ‘Inspired Blue’.

 

Sadly, it seems that the baffling and annoying habit of making the user jump through unnecessary hoops in order to access basic information about products that they might want to buy has metastasised spread from the NR ‘Parker’ website and colonised the NR ‘Waterman’ website.

I now suspect that the persistence of the twelve-years-past-their-‘Use-by’-date names on the swatches’ label captions is just an example of the small acts of defiance with which les français meet their occupiers/oppressors.

 

Vive la Résistance!

[Azulado]

On 2/8/2024 at 10:18 AM, Mercian said:

exactly that when Inoxcrom made their ‘Caravel’ pen.

Montblanc only threatened Inoxcrom with a lawsuit. The Spanish company made a modification that did not satisfy MB and they finally decided to withdraw the Caravel from the market. Subsequently, they launched a Caravel II which was not similar to the 146. 

Much has been written about this case, but there is no conclusive version of events. I point out that Diplomat was a distributor for Inoxcrom in Germany - the Spanish made a version of their Corinthian for Diplomat, the Classic Collection - and they did not want to have problems in the German market. 

I have purchased 13 Inoxcroms in the last year and I am very surprised by their quality. The nibs are extraordinary and have nothing to envy to any top brand. I think MB considered the Caravel to be a real threat because of its high quality and lower price. Why hasn't Montblanc sued other brands that produce similar models to the 146? 
Unfortunately, at the time I was not so informed and underestimated Inoxcrom (you could find them in any Spanish stationer's shop, I had many ballpoints of the brand), otherwise I would have models like the Corinthian and the Caravel. 

http://plumahispana.blogspot.com/2015/01/inoxcrom-caravel-y-caravel-ii.html

http://plumahispana.blogspot.com/2015/01/inoxcrom-corinthian.html

An Inxocrom manager said at the time that they had copied a lot but had done it with quality. 

[Mercian]

1 hour ago, Azulado said:

Montblanc only threatened Inoxcrom with a lawsuit. The Spanish company made a modification that did not satisfy MB and they finally decided to withdraw the Caravel from the market. Subsequently, they launched a Caravel II which was not similar to the 146….
 

 

Why hasn't Montblanc sued other brands that produce similar models to the 146? 

 

The first part that I have quoted above proves my point - Mb only threatened to sue Inoxcrom, and Inoxcrom then withdrew the Caravel.

This ‘strongly suggests’ that Inoxcrom’s lawyers told the Spanish company that it would lose the case if they tried to defend the Caravel in court.
So, rather than paying lawyers to defend the case in court, and inevitably losing, and then being forced to pay Mb’s lawyers as well as their own, Inoxcrom withdrew the Caravel.

 

The point about the copy being of high quality makes legal action more likely.
If ‘company Z’ is trying to make a ‘luxury’ pen that extensively copies a pen made by famous luxury-product maker ‘company X’, you can safely bet your house that ‘company X’ is going to sue ‘company Z’ - because if they didn’t sue ‘company Z’ loads of other companies would then see that there is no barrier at all to producing blatant copies of all of the products made by ‘company X’. Copies would proliferate, and ‘company X’ would lose loads and loads of market share (i.e. money).

 

Why hasn’t Mb sued e.g. Sailor or Wing Sung?

Because those companies are NOT in Europe. They are in Asia, and they have very little presence in stores in Europe.

More importantly, if Mb were to try to sue e.g. Wing Sung in China, how successful do you think their attempt would be?
The fact that Chinese companies are making blatant copies of European companies’ pens ‘strongly suggests’ that it isn’t possible to sue the Chinese companies in China.

Do you think that companies in China would be churning out so many blatant copies of pens made by well-known European companies if the European companies could sue the Chinese copyists?

E.g. when Kaweco noticed that Majohn was making copies of Kaweco pens under the brand name ‘Moon Man’, it didn’t sue Majohn - instead it copyrighted the brand name ‘Moon Man’ in Europe.

Why do you think Kaweco did that, rather than suing?

[Azulado]

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

More importantly, if Mb were to try to sue e.g. Wing Sung in China, how successful do you think their attempt would be?

If it were of interest, of course it could prosper, one wonders if it would be worth it. China belongs to WIPO, so it accepts international rules on intellectual property.

 

Kaweco chose this tactic to defend its intellectual property. But Pilot, Lamy, Faber-Castell, Parket, etc. did not. Ask yourself why. Lamy sells the Safari in China for $80. I have had a conversation with a Chinese fountain pen enthusiast, he admired the Lamy 2000 and intended to purchase one. He did not want the Jinhao 80 instead.

I love Kaweco, I have several pens from the brand, among them the Kaweco DIA2, an excellent pen. However, when you put a black Parker Duofold with two chrome rings next to it, I can't deny that they are very similar. Who is copying who? The Chinese did not invent plagiarism. The Japanese industry started by copying Western designs and today they are a powerhouse with their own solutions. China has already surpassed western car brands in the electric segment, with its own designs (commissioned to western designers). Have you seen the German pens of the 50's? Senator, Montblanc, Pelikan, Kaweco, Geha, etc. Who was copying whom? Did Pelikan denounce Reform for copying the M200 with the Reform 1745?

You speak of that case between Inoxcrom and Montblanc with too much certainty. You forget that these are only conjectures, we lack information from primary sources. They may be sensible conjectures, but they remain conjectures. Even the blog Pluma Hispana, whose author had a certain friendship with the family that owned Inoxcrom, could not clarify what exactly happened.

 

[Azulado]

On 2/5/2024 at 8:34 AM, mr T. said:

Due to a change in EU VAT-rules in 2021 and changes in international postal rules, pens from China became much more expensive.

Chinese pens remain very competitive in Europe in 2024. As proof, I cite two channels, one German and one Spanish, on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HswoT4F_q2U&t=13s

https://youtu.be/M8bc2Cdb3F0?si=gYOyagOKs_PuqY53

Many cnine fountain pens are reported in both channels. The price is always reported, it is still very low.

Chinese pens remain very competitive in Europe in 2024. As proof, I cite two channels, one German and one Spanish, on Youtube.
Penexchange is the German equivalent of PFN. There is a specialist in Chinese brands called SteamDevil. Its entries reach almost one million of accesses. In a recent post I see that the Lambitu 3062 costs 10 euros in Germany!

https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38321

[ZeroDukE]

8 hours ago, Azulado said:

I have purchased 13 Inoxcroms in the last year and I am very surprised by their quality. The nibs are extraordinary and have nothing to envy to any top brand. I think MB considered the Caravel to be a real threat because of its high quality and lower price. Why hasn't Montblanc sued other brands that produce similar models to the 146? 
Unfortunately, at the time I was not so informed and underestimated Inoxcrom (you could find them in any Spanish stationer's shop, I had many ballpoints of the brand), otherwise I would have models like the Corinthian and the Caravel. 

 

An Inxocrom manager said at the time that they had copied a lot but had done it with quality. 

 

 

I totally agree. I have both Inoxcrom fountain pens. They left the Caravel because of the issue with Montblanc... and made the Corithian with a strong reminiscence of the Omas Paragon. Both excellent fountain pens with nibs manufactured by Inoxcrom itself.   In my opinion, any of them are superior to the steel nib fountain pens Parker makes today.

[mr T.]

7 hours ago, Azulado said:

Penexchange is the German equivalent of PFN. There is a specialist in Chinese brands called SteamDevil. Its entries reach almost one million of accesses. In a recent post I see that the Lambitu 3062 costs 10 euros in Germany!

https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38321

Not at all. Member 'Steamdevil' lives outside the EU in Switzerland (in the Basel area). If he had his residency in Germany, his Kaweco knock-off would have cost him in the end around €30,-. That is more than he would have paid for a genuine entry level Kaweco in an EU based B&M or online shop. Of course, he could have saved a lot of money if he bought in an EU based shop a Parker Jotter originals fp, a Parker Vector XL fp or a Waterman Allure fp. He probably would have even some money left for a decent bottle of Quink ink. 'Steamdevil' only mentions here that this pen is imported from outside the EU (the US) and that it costs him, including p&p around $10,- USD. That means that the VAT (in Germany 19%, where I live 21%) has to be added to the costs and that the courier still has to be paid. If the US based seller chooses to send the pen with DHL, it would at least cost €14,50 extra for the administration fee DHL charges for handling imports from outside the EU. Not even calculated here: the costs and fees for the payment to the seller (bank/creditcard). 

[jmccarty3]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:35 PM, Mercian said:

I now suspect that the persistence of the twelve-years-past-their-‘Use-by’-date names on the swatches’ label captions is just an example of the small acts of defiance with which les français meet their occupiers/oppressors.

 

Vive la Résistance!

I'm surprised that the website isn't in Arabic.

[Azulado]

@mr T., I live in Brazil and I am Spanish. In the last year, I have placed orders to be sent to Spain and Brazil. I paid for a shipment from Germany (Fountain Feder) to Brazil 8,60 €. In German Ebay shops I don't pay more than 14 dollars for shipping to Brazil. That is a cost applicable to any pen, regardless of nationality. 

Jinhao 82, minute 13,00. 5 €. Spain. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoEDTMR3tBs

Hongdian M1, minute 9:34. 11,99 €. Germany.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYwONCrmyVQ

A few days ago I bought a Hongdiang 1843 on Aliexpress, for about 7 euros, plus 3 euros for shipping. Even if in the future they change the law (it is being discussed) and apply 72% (much more than in any European country), ICMS + IPI, it would still be a cheap pen. 

Most of my pens are from brands such as Lamy, Kaweco, Faber-Castell or Pelikan. Price is not the only factor in my purchasing decisions. But I must try to remain objective and, today, Chinese pens have no competition in the price/quality ratio. 

On Germany, a picture is worth a thousand words. 

 

[mr T.]

27 minutes ago, Azulado said:

@mr T., I live in Brazil and I am Spanish. In the last year, I have placed orders to be sent to Spain and Brazil. I paid for a shipment from Germany (Fountain Feder) to Brazil 8,60 €. In German Ebay shops I don't pay more than 14 dollars for shipping to Brazil. That is a cost applicable to any pen, regardless of nationality. 

Jinhao 82, minute 13,00. 5 €. Spain. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoEDTMR3tBs

Hongdian M1, minute 9:34. 11,99 €. Germany.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYwONCrmyVQ

A few days ago I bought a Hongdiang 1843 on Aliexpress, for about 7 euros, plus 3 euros for shipping. Even if in the future they change the law (it is being discussed) and apply 72% (much more than in any European country), ICMS + IPI, it would still be a cheap pen. 

Most of my pens are from brands such as Lamy, Kaweco, Faber-Castell or Pelikan. Price is not the only factor in my purchasing decisions. But I must try to remain objective and, today, Chinese pens have no competition in the price/quality ratio. 

On Germany, a picture is worth a thousand words. 

 

Same mistake again. The Jinhao in you example will cost the buyer in the end about €22,-. Let's do the calculation: € 3,63+2.89= €6,25. Then add VAT (only 19% in Germany): 6,25+1,19= €7,44. Then add the administration fee/clearance fee of the courier (at least € 14,50): € 7,44+€14,50= in total €21,95. Pens bought outside the EU (so also from the UK, the US, China or Japan) with a value more than €150,- will also be levied import duties. So if a consumer wants for example, to import the in this thread mentioned Wing Sung 629 18k sterling silver fountain pen from China with DHL, it will be even more expensive. This pen will cost around 2000 Chinese yuan, that is about €260,- (so more than €150,-). If the p&p is €5,- and if the cost for insurance is also €5,- then follows the next calculation: €260,-+€5+€5=€270,-. The import duty is likely the quite low tariff of 4%. The import duty therefore wll be about €11,- and the subtotal is €281,- Then the VAT (only 19% in Germany) has to be added. The next calculation will follow: €260+€5+€5+€11=€281,-+ 19% = €53,-. That means that the Wing Sung 629 18k sterling silver fountain pen bought in China already costs about €334,- and the parcel carrier hasn't been paid yet the (at least €14,50) clearance fee.  So the total cost for the Wing Sung 629 18k sterling silver fountain pen from China wil be around €350,-.

[Azulado]

37 minutes ago, mr T. said:

Same mistake again. The Jinhao in you example will cost the buyer in the end about €22,-. Let's do the calculation: € 3,63+2.89= €6,25. Then add VAT (only 19% in Germany): 6,25+1,19= €7,44. Then add the administration fee/clearance fee of the courier (at least € 14,50): € 7,44+€14,50= in total €21,95. Pens bought outside the EU (so also from the UK, the US, China or Japan) with a value more than €150,- will also be levied import duties. So if a consumer wants for example, to import the in this thread mentioned Wing Sung 629 18k sterling silver fountain pen from China with DHL, it will be even more expensive. This pen will cost around 2000 Chinese yuan, that is about €260,- (so more than €150,-). If the p&p is €5,- and if the cost for insurance is also €5,- then follows the next calculation: €260,-+€5+€5=€270,-. The import duty is likely the quite low tariff of 4%. The import duty therefore wll be about €11,- and the subtotal is €281,- Then the VAT (only 19% in Germany) has to be added. The next calculation will follow: €260+€5+€5+€11=€281,-+ 19% = €53,-. That means that the Wing Sung 629 18k sterling silver fountain pen bought in China already costs about €334,- and the parcel carrier hasn't been paid yet the (at least €14,50) clearance fee.  So the total cost for the Wing Sung 629 18k sterling silver fountain pen from China wil be around €350,-.

I will not continue the discussion. You don't even pay attention to my argumentation. "Preis inkl. mw st", do you know what that means? 1.19 from VAT. You think that's going to stop anyone from buying a pen?
Most of the Chinese pens sold in the world cost less than €40. Why do you go on to talk about pens over €150?
When I buy in Germany from Spain, I don't add the administration fee/clearance fee of the courier. From what I see on German and Spanish Youtube channels, nobody cites fee/clearance fee of the courier, not even when buying on Aliexpress.

This aficionado is from Berlin, is he any good to you? He paid 14 euros for a St Penpps DS.

https://www.penexchange.de/forum_neu/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38661

In both Spain and Brazil, the Chinese Post has agreements with the Brazilian and Spanish Posts. There is no additional cost for shipping.

https://www.packlink.es/blog/aduanas-envios-aliexpress/