Parker in 2024

[Heinkle]

It sort of makes you wonder what Newell’s valuation would be and how willing they’d be to part ways with the brand.

 

so much more could be done with it - not least the revival of a non-corporate brand culture. 

[ZeroDukE]

25 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

The point is, Wing Sung would be a good candidate for acquiring the Parker brand and producing the sort of Parker Pen's many would want today. 

 

👍

[Glenn-SC]

If “people” want cheap knockoffs of just about every pen brand (MB, Pelikan, Parker, Parker-Sheaffer hybrids, Pilot, etc.) then the Wing Sung versions are already available out there.  No reason for Wing Sung to license anything. 

[Estycollector]

Given the reviews here, the newly produced Parkers are now an expensive knockoff. 

 

Anyway, a member here suggested someone with FP experience should buy Parker. Wing Sung must have the infrastructure, knowledge, and economies of scale when it comes to manufacturing FP's. They could design what others might consider high end pens with the best materials used in production. They could make a solid gold pen with gold nibs or whatever nib material is considered the best and charge $500. 

 

 

[Glenn-SC]

If Wing Sung “could design what others consider high end pens” then I assume that they would already be doing so and making money off the associated markup.  I never saw that as the niche. 

[Estycollector]

Surely other members get the point. 

[ZeroDukE]

1 hour ago, Estycollector said:

Surely other members get the point. 

 

Surely.  I agree.  Parker was one of my favourites brands.  Not any more.  Though some model like the Duofold has its charm.

[Estycollector]

11 hours ago, ZeroDukE said:

 

Surely.  I agree.  Parker was one of my favourites brands.  Not any more.  Though some model like the Duofold has its charm.

One of the most popular vehicles in the US today is the Ford Bronco. Ford went back to its 1970's iconic off-road vehicle, did some upgrades, and is now offering this SUV in four different models. 

 

I suspect the market for Esterbrook pens is more for the old type than the ones being produced. Why are they not offering "Dollar Pens" models? Who wouldn't be interested in those iconic models with a modern converter and an assortment of nibs included with every pen? The same could be applicable for those much-appreciated Parker models. For a company like Wing Sung or other, knowing there is a market for $500 pens and with a bit of marketing exposure, maybe those much-loved pens could enjoy a revival. 

 

Also, I am not talking about knockoffs as suggested, but a quality pen. The idea of three nibs included might appeal as well. 

 

 

[ZeroDukE]

24 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

One of the most popular vehicles in the US today is the Ford Bronco. Ford went back to its 1970's iconic off-road vehicle, did some upgrades, and is now offering this SUV in four different models. 

 

I suspect the market for Esterbrook pens is more for the old type than the ones being produced. Why are they not offering "Dollar Pens" models? Who wouldn't be interested in those iconic models with a modern converter and an assortment of nibs included with every pen? The same could be applicable for those much-appreciated Parker models. For a company like Wing Sung or other, knowing there is a market for $500 pens and with a bit of marketing exposure, maybe those much-loved pens could enjoy a revival. 

 

Also, I am not talking about knockoffs as suggested, but a quality pen. The idea of three nibs included might appeal as well. 

 

 

 

Right. I understand your point. It could be a very interesting path.

 

 

[jchch1950]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:02 PM, Estycollector said:

One of the most popular vehicles in the US today is the Ford Bronco. Ford went back to its 1970's iconic off-road vehicle, did some upgrades, and is now offering this SUV in four different models. 

 

I suspect the market for Esterbrook pens is more for the old type than the ones being produced. Why are they not offering "Dollar Pens" models? Who wouldn't be interested in those iconic models with a modern converter and an assortment of nibs included with every pen? The same could be applicable for those much-appreciated Parker models. For a company like Wing Sung or other, knowing there is a market for $500 pens and with a bit of marketing exposure, maybe those much-loved pens could enjoy a revival. 

 

Also, I am not talking about knockoffs as suggested, but a quality pen. The idea of three nibs included might appeal as well. 

 

 

The reissue must have the colours of the original ones. Wih easily changeable nibs it can be a market hit if the price is affordable.

[Heinkle]

Coincidentally, I’ve just seen on the Parker instagram page they are launching something called the “Pioneers” collection across the fountain pen range. The tag line is “for those who move the world forward”. 

 

Looks to be a gold and metallic grey theme. I think the Duofold is the metal Prestige model (rather than the standard plastic compound). 

[TheRedBeard]

2 hours ago, Heinkle said:

Coincidentally, I’ve just seen on the Parker instagram page they are launching something called the “Pioneers” collection across the fountain pen range. The tag line is “for those who move the world forward”. 

 

Looks to be a gold and metallic grey theme. I think the Duofold is the metal Prestige model (rather than the standard plastic compound). 

Well, it might be interesting to see and try that new Duofold...

[Heinkle]

Pen Heaven seem to have the Sonnets listed on their website (though out of stock) - the FP doesn't have a description (but priced at £350), while the rollerball is listed for £260 with the following description:

[mr T.]

On 12/15/2023 at 11:01 AM, Heinkle said:

It strikes me that the majority of recent posts in the Parker section relate to vintage pens rather than new/upcoming releases - unscientifically, this suggests that the appeal of the brand is largely historic (almost as if the company was no longer trading).

 

In contrast, the Pelikan and Montblanc sections, for example, seem to have a better balance of new and old, with expectations for the future.

 

My questions:

- Do you think this a fair assessment?

- Is Parker truly relevant in the fountain pen discourse going into 2024?

 

I don't think it is a fair assesement. What is see here on FPN is that many collectors only seems to be interested in vintage 51 fp's. due to a sort of nostalgia. The only pen brand that is probably more relevant than Parker at the moment is Bic. Where I live, Parker fp's can, unlike many other brands (like Pelikan or Montblanc), be found in most B&M and online shops. For most people a pen that costs more than a Bic Cristal is a luxury product and still associate Parker with luxury and quality . Therefore it is likely that in terms of volume, there will be more entry or mid level fp's like the Jotter, Jotter Originals or Vector XL sold than any Montblanc fp or Pelikan fp (other than ugly pens like the 'Happy Pen' or Pelikano). Where I live, Parker is probably the most relevant brand in bottled ink because it is available at most online and B&M shops and the price-performance ratio of Quink-inks is one of the best in the market. 

 

On 12/18/2023 at 8:25 PM, welch said:

 

Japanese companies still offer entry-level, moderate, and expensive pens, yes, but Parker is the only other pen company, at least that I know, still offering a fountain pen for each market. (Oh, and the Jotter is still around, both as Jotter and inside the ballpoint versions of Sonnet and Duofold, and probably others I have not used. I have a Frontier Flighter ballpoint in my pocket right now)

Where I live, Japanese fp's are only relevant in the high end or in the 'exotic' part of the market like urushi pens. Lower end or mid level fp's from Japan and accessories like proprietary inkcartridges or proprietary converters are not common and not widely available here. Japanese bottled inks (like Iroshizuku-inks) are, compared to Quink, Rohrer&Klingner or Diamine inks, in general overpriced and in my opinion not worth the money. Brands like Pilot, Sailor or Platinum don't seem really interested in the EU-market. Some Japanese companies however dominate the market for mechanical pencils (Pentel, OEM-pencils made by Kotobuki). The only serious competition for Parker here comes from Bic and Lamy. Distribution, price and availability makes a brand relevant, not 'heritage'.

 

On 1/30/2024 at 9:59 PM, Estycollector said:

The point is, Wing Sung would be a good candidate for acquiring the Parker brand and producing the sort of Parker Pen's many would want today. 

Wing Sung and other Chinese brands like Jinhao or Moonman are in the EU as irrelevant for users as Pelikan, Pilot or Sailor. In the past, most Chinese pens were bought from AliExpress or eBay direct from a Chinese seller for very low prices. Due to a change in EU VAT-rules in 2021 and changes in international postal rules, pens from China became much more expensive. Pen like the Baoer 388, Jinhao 159 or Jinhao X750 will therefore be as expensive or even more expensive than a Jotter Originals fp. Chinese manufacturers aren't competetive anymore since 2021.

 

 

On 1/2/2024 at 1:23 AM, AmandaW said:

Parker = dried out pen.

Indeed. Quality control seems to be the Parker achilles' heel. 

[Estycollector]

@mr T. the context of my comments about Wing Sung were in relation to a member who suggested a company with experience with fountain pens to obtain the brand. Since Wing Sung is making a pen, the 601, that is a copy of the famed 51, and a good copy at that, they seemed to me to be a good candidate. 

[Glenn-SC]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:02 AM, Estycollector said:

One of the most popular vehicles in the US today is the Ford Bronco. Ford went back to its 1970's iconic off-road vehicle, did some upgrades, and is now offering this SUV in four different models. 

 

I suspect the market for Esterbrook pens is more for the old type than the ones being produced. Why are they not offering "Dollar Pens" models? Who wouldn't be interested in those iconic models with a modern converter and an assortment of nibs included with every pen? The same could be applicable for those much-appreciated Parker models. For a company like Wing Sung or other, knowing there is a market for $500 pens and with a bit of marketing exposure, maybe those much-loved pens could enjoy a revival. 

 

Also, I am not talking about knockoffs as suggested, but a quality pen. The idea of three nibs included might appeal as well. 

 

 

If “a company like Wing Sung or other” knew that there was a market for “$500 pens” they would have no need to mass market knockoffs of an established pen company’s historic product line. That company could just produce and market a high quality high value pen and let it stand on its own merits.  They wouldn’t need to ride the nostalgia for someone else’s product to justify their own. 

 

Also, if that company felt “compelled” to make a high value copy of the Parker “51” they could do that as well, since companies don’t feel corporately constrained from make cheap copies they could make mid- to high-value copies as easily.  IMHO these companies do not see a return on selling mid- to high-value FPs, their niche is lower priced pens that mimic expensive European or American pens. 
 

Let these Chinese Companies made and sell a high value pen.  That would be good for the FP community in general.  But I have never seen them do so.  

[ZeroDukE]

1 hour ago, Glenn-SC said:

 IMHO these companies do not see a return on selling mid- to high-value FPs, their niche is lower priced pens that mimic expensive European or American pens. 
 

Let these Chinese Companies made and sell a high value pen.  That would be good for the FP community in general.  But I have never seen them do so.  

 

That is changing... though some people can't see it yet.  But I agree that will be good for the fountain pen community.

[Estycollector]

The Wing Sung 601 "Flighter" is not a cheap pen, it is an inexpensive pen. Wing Sung even makes a metal section to replace the black plastic type that Parker used and they copied. The 601 might not have the nib that some would prefer. 

 

What I think Wing Sung is doing is providing the segment of the market that it not interested in trying to find a vintage 51 that works or trying to get one restored. The idea of a vintage 1970's Bronco sounds good until you consider the restorative measures that must be performed. Not everyone likes to tinker, but they are enjoying the nostalgia from afar. 

 

There should be no question that Wing Sung could makes as good a pen as can be made. Knowing your market is the way, however, to stay profitable. 

[ZeroDukE]

15 minutes ago, Estycollector said:

The Wing Sung 601 "Flighter" is not a cheap pen, it is an inexpensive pen. Wing Sung even makes a metal section to replace the black plastic type that Parker used and they copied. The 601 might not have the nib that some would prefer. 

 

What I think Wing Sung is doing is providing the segment of the market that it not interested in trying to find a vintage 51 that works or trying to get one restored. The idea of a vintage 1970's Bronco sounds good until you consider the restorative measures that must be performed. No everyone likes to tinker, but they are enjoying the nostalgia from afar. 

 

There should be no question that Wing Sung could makes as good a pen as can be made. Knowing your market is the way, however, to stay profitable. 

 

I agree with everything you wrote.

[Mercian]

On 2/4/2024 at 5:11 PM, Heinkle said:

Coincidentally, I’ve just seen on the Parker instagram page they are launching something called the “Pioneers” collection across the fountain pen range. The tag line is “for those who move the world forward”.

This is a great example of one of the things that NR has done/is doing with the modern Parker ‘brand’ that I, for one, Just Don’t Get.

 

The ‘collections’, such as that ‘Pioneers’ one, forcibly associate the ‘expensive’ models (Duofold, ‘Ingenuity’) with one model (Sonnet) which could either be fairly inexpensive or very expensive, and one model (IM) that is from the less-expensive end of the range.

I freely admit that my confusion over the ‘collections’ idea may just be a function of my advancing years, but…

 

If one looks at the different pens that Parker makes, there are massive overlaps between the price ranges of their different models. E.g. they sell different types of Sonnets at various, widely-divergent price-points, and the same is true for their new 51 and for the IM.

 

Near the least-expensive end of the Parker range, we find the ‘Vector XL’ - which is a re-badged Waterman Allure pen with a Waterman Allure’s nib, except with Parker branding & feed-nipple geometry.
Given that both brands are owned by NR, why do this?
It dilutes the identity of both brands IMO.

 

Going upward in price, when NR’s team re-designed both the IM & Urban ranges in ~2016 (to make most of their component parts interchangeable) they seemed to completely remove the ‘unique design’ appeal of the Urban, and turn the model into something of an afterthought.

The IM model can be had in various ‘ranges’, some of which are ‘traditional’ single-coloured pens, while others feature ‘funky’ cosmetic designs. So, the IM appears to be intended to be a pen for young adults, and has some eye-catching versions to cater to that.

In contrast, the lack of varieties of ranges of the Urban model strengthens the impression of ‘stagnation’/‘afterthought’ for me. What market segment are NR/Parker’s Marketing/management people trying to reach/attract with the model?

 

The Sonnet and the 51 are available in confusingly-separated ranges at confusingly-divergent price-points.

The 51 is split into two ‘collections’; one just called “51 fountain pen” while the other is called “51 Premium fountain pen gift box”. That’s not unreasonable, in that the £135 ‘Premium’ pens have gold on their caps - but then so do two out of the six pens in the “51 fountain pen” ‘collection’, and those two also have 14k gold nibs and cost £235. Which is £100 more than the ‘Premium’ 51s  The other four in the “51 fountain pen” ‘collection’ have steel nibs and steel caps and cost £80.

 

Some Sonnets cost £80 (those ones look rather like the old, inexpensive, Frontier model for schoolkids used to); some cost £100-£125; some cost £200; one costs £370, and; the ‘Intrepid Journeys’ one costs £540. Which is more than a Duofold. What???

On Parker’s website - more on which further down this screed - the Sonnet range is currently split across SIX different categories. WHAT???

 

The ‘Ingenuity’ seems to be an exercise in marketing that is intended as a gambit to attract consumers who are loyal to brands such as Hugo Boss - almost like the start of an attempt to position Parker as a ‘mid-luxury’ brand.

I don’t object to that in itself, but asking that much money for a c/c pen when it is only available in two nib-grades, and only with steel nibs, is something that really baffles me.
Especially when I look at what other pens can be had at that price point - even when one restricts one’s search to only pens from manufacturers located in Europe.

 

The Duofold range has been reduced in recent years, with the ‘special edition’ 135th-Anniversary model baffling me too. It’s a normal black Duofold with an imprint on its barrel and a different cap finial, but they want customers to pay almost three times as much for it. As I type this, Cult Pens will sell you a black Duofold for £465, but are asking £1250 for the 135th-Anniversary ‘special’ edition.

As for the company’s website…

I have never seen a website that is less customer-friendly!
It makes it really bloody difficult to actually look at the ranges of their pens; various pages are half-finished; it displays a black pen with a medium nib as a separate product to a black pen with a fine nib; it displays fountain pens with reference to their ink-colour , and it makes no mention at all of Parker’s ink converters.

 

The Waterman website is not this messed-up. So what the vorsprung durch technik is going-on with the Parker website? Seriously, is anyone responsible for maintaining it?

 

My overall impression is that NR has no idea what it is attempting to do with the Parker ‘brand’.
The confusion across the range of models offered reminds me of the situation of ‘British Leyland’ cars in the 1970s.

I would not be at all surprised to discover that NR has divided ‘Parker’ up into separate divisions that are - just like those at BL - competing against each other for limited Corporate resources and for design/engineering/Marketing budgets.

 

I could almost believe NR uses its ‘Parker’ sub-brand as a ‘Punishment assignment’ or ‘Re-education Camp’ for low-ranking executives who have already fouled-up in a different division of the Corporation.
And that those poor unfortunates who get appointed to it are therefore very keen to get out of ‘the gulag’ and back on to trying to climb the greasy pole of the Corporation’s ‘main stream’ as quickly as they humanly can.