New Parker 51

[Mangrove Jack]

I would use it. Would one be called a collector if you bought pens and did not use them?

[Claes]

>Would one be called a collector if you bought pens and did not use them?

 

Or investor, or accumulator, or hoarder?

 

[Beechwood]

25 minutes ago, Mangrove Jack said:

I would use it. Would one be called a collector if you bought pens and did not use them?

 

 

Certainly, I use a fountain pen every day but with 300+ Parkers up to 1960 in my collection  I cannot be anything other than a  collector, to make matters worse I   have  large numbers of pens that I use and also that I  wouldn't dream of using which include my fathers pens, an Eisenhower gifted 51, even a 149 previously owned by George Michael. An important unused pen  that I used to own was a 51 with Che Guevara provenance, I gave that pen to Parkerduofold who some of you may remember. Just lost a private treaty sale on a 1938 Vacumatic previously owned by a film star, engraved to her and  with good provenance, I wouldn't have used that either.

 

 

I have no issues with the tag collector, when you have more than a handful it is almost inevitable in fact the most knowledgeable brand specific  pen man that I know is just a collector, never uses a fountain pen. 

 

 

 

 

[Mangrove Jack]

To each is own. I don't think I would own something and not use it, unless it was a business related investment like land/property, gold, which I would buy as an investment.

I love using stuff that has history or a story.

Both my grandparents fountain pens, cutlery, crockery, furniture, watches, etc are used by me on a daily basis. 

I am sitting at my great-grandfathers 120+ year old desk and posting this reply 😊.

 

 

 

 

 

[Glenn-SC]

To each their own. I have numerous fountain pens that I enjoy owning very very much and will never use.  Some are too rare to risk damaging (e.g. a T1).  Some are mint and I have “user” pens that work as well (e.g. an Australian manufactured 75 with an opal cap “jewel” (thank you Ralph!)).  

But, if someone only buys what they will use or will use everything that they buy, good for them. 

[Emver]

I have two classic sports cars in my collection which I bought because they were extremely low mileage.  I drove them home and have never used them since because I was frightened that increasing the mileage might devalue them.

 

Now, 30 or more later, all they have done is take up space in my garage, and I realise what an idiot I was.  Life's too short to waste it collecting stuff we don't use.

[Beechwood]

There is a well known actor who likes his cars, has over 10 all in regular use. His dream car is an Aston Martin Zagato, 25 were produced in 1963. He bought one  of them at a price of just under $10m for this new and unregistered car which had never been driven.

 

After a year of ownership he was asked about using the car, his reply was that he doesn't need to drive his dream car, he was perfectly happy to push it out of the garage on a sunny day and just enjoy owning the car.

 

With respect to the diverse opinions, I cannot see the point of using a 70 year old new and unused pen, with chalk marks, when you have the exact same pen that is a joy to use and has seen daily use over the many years of ownership.

 

I have a pen that was given to my great grandmother by her school to make the silver jubilee of the King, from memory 1935 and it is embossed as such. The pen is a pig to write with due to it having a steel Warranted nib, it is also very small, there is no benefit to using such a pen, owning it is enough.

 

 

[Mangrove Jack]

1 hour ago, Beechwood said:

With respect to the diverse opinions, I cannot see the point of using a 70 year old new and unused pen, with chalk marks, when you have the exact same pen that is a joy to use and has seen daily use over the many years of ownership.

 

I would rephrase it. 

With respect to the diverse opinions, I cannot see the point of "owning" a 70 year old new and unused pen, with chalk marks, when you have the exact same pen that is a joy to use and has seen daily use over the many years of ownership.

[Claes]

Hm... There are

• collectors,
• investors,
• accumulators, and
• hoarders.

If your plan is to "get rich quick", I bet you'd be able to sell a pen

for a higher amount if it is in "mint" condition.

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

[Beechwood]

50 minutes ago, Mangrove Jack said:

I would rephrase it. 

With respect to the diverse opinions, I cannot see the point of "owning" a 70 year old new and unused pen, with chalk marks, when you have the exact same pen that is a joy to use and has seen daily use over the many years of ownership.

 

 

You sound like a person who posts just to create an argument, I thought we had rules about trolling behaviour.

 

As has already been said people own pens for a host of different reasons, whereas you cannot see the point of "owning" a 70 year old new and unused pen, with chalk marks, when you have the exact same pen that is a joy to use and has seen daily use over the many years of ownership, that is just your opinion and perspective, I have no interest in debating with you any merits in your opinion.

 

Other people might buy a 70 year old new and unused Parker, with chalk marks,  just because it is rare and unusual.

 

This is a hobby that caters for all opinions.

[Beechwood]

55 minutes ago, Claes said:

Hm... There are

• collectors,
• investors,
• accumulators, and
• hoarders.

If your plan is to "get rich quick", I bet you'd be able to sell a pen

for a higher amount if it is in "mint" condition.

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

 

55 minutes ago, Claes said:

 

 

 

I have included myself in all your categories in addition to User since 1964, I don't think there are many if any opportunities  for getting rich, quick or slow.

 

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

4 hours ago, Beechwood said:

There is a well known actor who likes his cars, has over 10 all in regular use. His dream car is an Aston Martin Zagato, 25 were produced in 1963. He bought one  of them at a price of just under $10m for this new and unregistered car which had never been driven.

 

After a year of ownership he was asked about using the car, his reply was that he doesn't need to drive his dream car, he was perfectly happy to push it out of the garage on a sunny day and just enjoy owning the car.

 

With respect to the diverse opinions, I cannot see the point of using a 70 year old new and unused pen, with chalk marks, when you have the exact same pen that is a joy to use and has seen daily use over the many years of ownership.

 

I have a pen that was given to my great grandmother by her school to make the silver jubilee of the King, from memory 1935 and it is embossed as such. The pen is a pig to write with due to it having a steel Warranted nib, it is also very small, there is no benefit to using such a pen, owning it is enough.

 

 

Yes, but the difference is that in the case of your great grandmother's pen, that's a family heirloom.  In the case of owning some NOS pen that has never seen ink AND ALSO the same pen that is regularly used?  Well, nice for the people who can afford such.  I am clearly NOT in the same economic demographic.  And buying two (identical) pens -- one to use and one to keep "pristine" for the resale value?  That just seems like a waste of money to me.

Plus, after my experience a while back going to an "appraisal show" that was a fundraiser for a local town's fire department, and having the pens I had PREVIOUSLY gotten appraised for a higher value (especially the Parker 41) and told the guy at the second one how much that pen had PREVIOUSLY been appraised for -- which at the time just just blew my mind, since I'd paid 50¢ for it at an estate sale the day before, digging through a box of mostly ballpoints), I got told that because of the pandemic prices of things (especially "luxury" items, such as "collectibles" were NOT nearly as high as they'd been a few years earlier.  So that made me even LESS likely to want to buy something for the potential future "resale" value. 

And if I'm going to have paid a whole whopping 50¢ US for a pen that is "rare" and even at the current appraisal value way more than I paid for it in the first place?  As far as *I* am concerned that 41 is worth 50¢ and is a really nice writer as well (and not got any cracks in it, the way my 21 and nearly all the 61s except the 61 Flighter do....  So why NOT use a nice writing pen for its original intended use -- i.e., to WRITE with?   So all the c-worders out there can clutch at their strands of pearls while having fainting attacks --that's on THEM (shrug).  Like I said before -- the only pens I don't use are the ones I haven't gotten fixed yet....

Mind you, I was also raised by people who would buy a lower end model car brand new, pay it off ASAP, and then drive it for a decade or so, until it got driven into the ground (or got wrecked -- which was actually pretty infrequent) and then trade it in for a new car and do the same thing with the new one.  The house I grew up in? Bought without a mortgage, just on savings and what my parents got for the house I lived in when I was little (I was flabbergasted when I heard what my parents SOLD the house I grew up in (bought brand new in 1968 and sold in 1987 for nearly four times what they'd paid for it).  Of course, the really frightening part was hearing about some people up the street who moved to someplace in the Midwest, and upon hearing what their old house was on the market for, got told "Oh, we can't help you....  You need to go to this different realtor!"  And the people were ASTOUNDED that the second agency was showing them "mc-mansions" with Caddys and BMWs in the driveway.  That was the difference between prices 50 miles north of New City and IIRC someplace in Missouri....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[Beechwood]

I take your point Ruth, I understand where you are coming from in arriving at determining factors.

 

It is all a personal opinion.

 

If I had four pens, the decision would be different, I have 400, some are historically important, I cannot use them all but have 10 or so that regularly see ink. I don't need to use an Ike 51, or a pen  set  that my father bought in 1951 or a Wyvern set that was a gift from George V, and so on.

 

I knew this would divide opinion, it has done for years on here.  It is not for others to judge what people spend their money or even why.

 

 

[Carguy]

I would have a hard time using that pen also. I have had very few pens over the years that would qualify as NOS that I haven’t sold or otherwise parted with. For now, the only one I have left is a NOS PanAm 51….

[Beechwood]

7 hours ago, Carguy said:

I would have a hard time using that pen also. I have had very few pens over the years that would qualify as NOS that I haven’t sold or otherwise parted with. For now, the only one I have left is a NOS PanAm 51….

 

 

Exactly

 

I spent some years searching for one of the Parker 51s given by Eisenhower to the six people that he thought brought about victory for the Allies  in WW2, these pens are in a color  described by Kenneth Parker as unique.

 

Each of the six pens has an individual message for the recipient that has been surface printed, the printing is not durable. 

 

I cannot imagine any perceived benefit from using that pen. 

 

 

[Estycollector]

There are tools that benefit from use. Maybe a pen isn't one of them. I do know that old clocks and motors are better off running. Since materials do degrade over time, at some point these unused pens are going to need to be restored and once they are, they've lost their originality. Even the Parker 51 Demonstrator on the other thread would be hard for me to use, but I would want it kept working if I did decide to use it. 

 

 

[Glenn-SC]

11 hours ago, Beechwood said:

I take your point Ruth, I understand where you are coming from in arriving at determining factors.

 

It is all a personal opinion.

 

If I had four pens, the decision would be different, I have 400, some are historically important, I cannot use them all but have 10 or so that regularly see ink. I don't need to use an Ike 51, or a pen  set  that my father bought in 1951 or a Wyvern set that was a gift from George V, and so on.

 

I knew this would divide opinion, it has done for years on here.  It is not for others to judge what people spend their money or even why.

 

 

I agree with you completely. 
 

People buy (and avoid) pens for many different reasons.  Some people seem to constantly insist that their opinion only their opinion is the correct one.  

[Mangrove Jack]

22 hours ago, Beechwood said:

 

You sound like a person who posts just to create an argument, I thought we had rules about trolling behaviour.

 

My apologies if I did. Certainly not my intention.

[Nethermark]

2 hours ago, Mangrove Jack said:

On 1/8/2024 at 8:17 PM, Beechwood said:

 

You sound like a person who posts just to create an argument, I thought we had rules about trolling behaviour.

 

My apologies if I did. Certainly not my intention.

I must say, I found that reply unwarranted. I do not agree with the argument, but I can't see, why it should be trolling behaviour.

 

I myself try to get an overview of a particular brand, so I guess I'm a collector. I do not write with all my pens, as I have too many for that, so I only write with the pens I really like writing with, and that can be taken around in my bag

[inkstainedruth]

17 hours ago, Beechwood said:

If I had four pens, the decision would be different, I have 400, some are historically important, I cannot use them all but have 10 or so that regularly see ink. I don't need to use an Ike 51, or a pen  set  that my father bought in 1951 or a Wyvern set that was a gift from George V, and so on.

 You have a pen set from George V?!  WOW!  Consider me duly impressed.

I don't even have a real family heirloom pen.  The closest was my grandfather's pen/pencil combo that I lost when I was about 8, after finding on top of my dad's dresser; followed by my husband's grandfather's Sheaffer Balance Oversize that when my mother-in-law gave it to me a few years ago.  It had the cap for HER Eversharp Skyline jammed on to it so tightly I was afraid of breaking both trying to get the cap off, and had to have someone at a pen show take section pliers to the cap.  I was able to get a replacement cap and that's the pen I want to someday give to someone in the next generation or so, to keep "in the family" (like one of my husband's niece's kids when they get older).  Once that pen got restored including the replacement cap, it turns out to be a nice writer -- and not heavy for its size.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth