cleaning a fountain pen, it is an art form for sure...

[greencobra]

first, didn't know where to drop this thread sooo, here we are. second, this has been hashed around forever, i'm too lazy to do a proper search so forgive me but i am the master of the dupe after all.

 

so as i'm cleaning a pen this morning, one of the most boring pen chores ever, i'm thinking about the people who always post "ya gotta flush for at least 5 minutes, until the water expelled from the pen is clean." 5 minutes? come on...at the very least, no matter what pen i'm flushing, i'm at 15 minutes, most times longer, and i've never experienced an absolutely clean pen when i'm done. makes me wonder, after all these years, am i doing something wrong? there's really only one way to flush a pen, no?

 

am i expecting too much wanting to see clean water drip from my pen after this proverbial 5 minutes? how long do you guys flush? and you achieve a perfectly clean pen at the end? no lying now? does everyone count tinted water as "clean water?" as i said, this has been a mystery of life for me for years. and yeah, it's been rehashed, reground and chewed up and spat out on every pen site i've known. the magical 5 minutes is in everyone's postings. make this the definitive pen cleaning thread. toss your secrets at me so i can put to bed a perfectly clean fountain pen as well. really, achieving a clean pen is an art form. i have no artistic ability, do you? 

[inkstainedruth]

Well, I often soak pens in the flush mix, or in distilled water, nib down and then go do other stuff and then check back later.  But I also then drain them, nib down, in paper toweling, and if I'm getting a lot of color leaching into the toweling, the pens get re-flushed.  

I don't count tinted water as being "clean".  I'm definitely kinda OCD -- but I also worry about bad interactions between inks -- especially after seeing someone's photos a few years ago of the person's attempt to make the "perfect" blue black ink, and mixed Noodler's Black with Nooder's Bay State Blue -- then put the mix into a pen without seeing how they interacted.  And the results?  They weren't pretty....   Large parts of the written exemplar?  The inks didn't mix -- so part of a line would be one color, part would be the other, and occasionally they'd mix.  But then because of the difference in pH between the two inks?  When they DID mix, they formed solid chunks -- and came out of the nib in solid chunks....  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[senzen]

A bulb syringe makes flushing very quick, usually at most a couple of water fillings; however with some pens solidified ink may remain in the feed and collector, so soaking is always a good idea if possible. In some cases only an ultrasonic cleaner followed by flushing has been able to dislodge some remnants.

 

A little patience and being methodical helps.

[kestrel]

For my vintage pens (levers, crescents, pistons, plungers, etc.) I go through a couple of filling cycles with water.  Then I do a normal fill with water and suspend the nib/feed/lower half of the section in a small container of water (so nib tip does not touch the bottom of the container) that is sitting in the bath of an ultrasonic cleaner and run the cleaner for a minute or two.  Most of the hard to clean ink seems to be in the feed and the ultrasonic treatment loosens it pretty quickly.  Then empty the pen, rinse off the nib and feed, and do one more fill and empty cycle to finish the job.  I am conscious of the fact that some of the old filling systems (particularly Conklin lever fillers like the Endura) are fragile so the fewer cycles I use in cleaning the better.  I also simplify the cleaning by using only "safe" inks in pens with fragile filling systems.

 

For cartridge/converter fillers I remove the converter from the section, flush the section with a bulb syringe until it runs clear, zap the section/nib/feed in an ultrasonic for a minute or two, flush again with the bulb syringe and I am done.  I fill a 30 mL blunt needle syringe with water, stick the needle into the converter, and empty the syringe into the converter rapidly.  Run the plunger through one cycle and repeat the syringe flush.  That is usually quite sufficient.  Dropper fillers get the same cleaning treatment as the converter.

 

I'm not as OCD about cleaning as some and more so than others.  I am conscious of the potential hazards of ink mixing.  When I taught basic chemistry I mixed dilute solutions of Baystate Blue and Concord Bream to produce a precipitation reaction.  Pretty in a beaker but not so in the feed of a fountain pen.

[Ron Z]

You need a salad spinner centrifuge.   I agree that a bulb is more efficient in flushing C/C filled pens.  Kestrel has some good ideas. But don't over think it.

[txomsy]

Or you could just follow the well-known makers' advice: flush it with water once every three months.

 

That's what every body did way back when, although it is true that when changing colors you would get a couple of pages in mixed ink until the old ink was washed out and the new one took over. But we did not know -nor care- better and it worked finely.

 

Nowadays you can take as a rule, flush your pen once every three months or when switching colors.

 

Actually I have pens that always fill with the same ink and haven't cleaned in years. As long as they are continuously in use that shouldn't be a problem. If you let the ink dry, then a flush is not a bad idea.

 

Modern marketing tries to keep us in a continuous state of unbalance/paranoia/neurosis in anguish so we are more susceptible to their messages. With a good pen, there should be no need to.

 

[Maurizio]

I have not used a salad spinner or an ultrasonic cleaner, but have used a bulb syringe to help speed up the process. Yes, you certainly don’t want to create a precipitate in your feed. My way is tedious but gets the job done the way I like it: only clean water comes out. 

 

I usually use a home-made pen flush with a dilution of unscented dish soap and ammonia about 10 - 15% soap/ammonia to water. I flush this through with a bulb syringe, or, sometimes just using the converter and running the cleaning solution 3 or 4 converters full. Then, I flush with plain water another 4 - 5 times. That’s Phase One. 

 

Phase 2 is the paper towel drain phase. I fill the converter with water and rest the nib on a paper towel to drain out, making sure there’s capillary contact with the paper towel. I do this multiple times until the water draining out drains out clear. With some heavily dye-loaded inks the process takes all day, I’ve even done it for 2 days, but I get a reasonably cleaned feed. 

[RedPie]

My cleaning always, always takes much longer than 5 minutes. I never was that lucky. I mainly use water and water only. If I use the paper towel test and if the water is not clean, I repeat. Some inks are harder to get out and I have to soak them over night. Some pens need some extra time as well. 🖋️✒️

[greencobra]

i never flush unless i'm changing ink. why would you need to, really?

 

let me bring up my large platinum boheme. got it in 2009, new, came with a couple squeeze bulbs of montblanc "special solution". have no clue what it was, but i still use the bulbs to flush tap water through that big boy. recently, i read that's a no go, tap water rusts the internals of the boheme. you need distilled water. huh? di water, never heard of that before. after a couple years of inactivity, i threw in a cartridge, held my breath and started to write. thankfully it started right up and writes like a champ. but what's this rust business? never heard of that before. always using tap water to flush this boheme. beautiful, big pen. took a long time to find one since the only ones readily available were the little girly ones with the jewel on the clip. i'd hate to ruin the pen. 

[Ron Z]

I've seen it in some Bohemes, and it's ugly.  I suspect that's why they came up with the cleaning kits.

[Arkanabar]

15 hours ago, kestrel said:

When I taught basic chemistry I mixed dilute solutions of Baystate Blue and Concord Bream to produce a precipitation reaction.  Pretty in a beaker but not so in the feed of a fountain pen.

Really?  I had thought that all the Baystate colors were largely compatible with each other, while not with other inks, but it apparently I was wrong.

[kestrel]

7 hours ago, Arkanabar said:

Really?  I had thought that all the Baystate colors were largely compatible with each other, while not with other inks, but it apparently I was wrong.

Concord Bream is from Noodler's regular line.  As far as I know the only Baystates are Blue, Grape, and Cranberry.

Concord Bream also ranks as one of the three most disappointing inks I have ever tried.  This was a good way to get some use out of it. 

[PolarMoonman]

Whenever one of my pens runs out of ink, it gets completely disassembled, soaked in water for 5-10 mins and then each piece is taken out, dried and then the pen is reassembled. I mostly buy modern plastic (not resin or celluloid) or metal pens so this is my go to method. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[txomsy]

Personally, but do not take me too seriously, I think that that is unnecessary wear. Threads, parts may erode and/or end giving up. Metal, specially, may rust. And colors and materials may fade and suffer. I believe that pens (well, most things actually) are not made to be taken apart unless absolutely needed for repair. Or they should. At least high end, well made and crafted pens are sold under such premise. For me (but that's my personal opinion) there is no need for such paranoia.

 

Same for the engine in my car. I do not take it apart for cleaning whenever I fill the fuel tank. Maybe the second hand seller will clean the engine before selling it. But that's about it.

 

I've known since, like, forever, that electronic devices attract and accumulate dust like crazy. At one point it was even customary to use a vacuum cleaner to remove dust from supercomputer circuits --four decades ago-- when servicing (once in a blue moon). But I do not disassemble my music equipment, TV, computer, cell phone periodically (actually never), ceiling lamps only when too much dust has accumulated (maybe twice in a blue moon), and haven't disassembled a supercomputer for cleaning in decades.  I know that even with a decades long experience, any intervention will do more damage than benefit.

 

Pens should not be much different. Certainly they weren't some decades ago, and I understand quality pens still are designed and made not to be taken apart, and advised not to.

 

I think the only pens that I know that are actually designed with users taking them apart and play tuning them in mind are Noodler's.

 

Yeah, I do clean -for example- my hands before eating, but that's for health reasons, as I do clean cuttlery, dishes and kitchenware, but I haven't needed to drink ink so far (fingers crossed). Ink has plenty of biocides, so no need for any health paranoia.

YMMV, of course, but if it is a cheap pen, I do not see the point in the hassle given the cost of replacement, and if it is a quality one, it is my belief, that you shouldn't need to.

 

If it gives you pleasure or a Zen moment, great, but consider that, IMMHO, it might actually be reducing the life of the pen. 

 

Note my insistence in highlighting that this is my opinion, for I may be utterly wrong.

[welch]

5 hours ago, txomsy said:

Personally, but do not take me too seriously, I think that that is unnecessary wear. Threads, parts may erode and/or end giving up. Metal, specially, may rust. And colors and materials may fade and suffer. I believe that pens (well, most things actually) are not made to be taken apart unless absolutely needed for repair. Or they should. At least high end, well made and crafted pens are sold under such premise. For me (but that's my personal opinion) there is no need for such paranoia.

 

Same for the engine in my car. I do not take it apart for cleaning whenever I fill the fuel tank. Maybe the second hand seller will clean the engine before selling it. But that's about it.

 

I've known since, like, forever, that electronic devices attract and accumulate dust like crazy. At one point it was even customary to use a vacuum cleaner to remove dust from supercomputer circuits --four decades ago-- when servicing (once in a blue moon). But I do not disassemble my music equipment, TV, computer, cell phone periodically (actually never), ceiling lamps only when too much dust has accumulated (maybe twice in a blue moon), and haven't disassembled a supercomputer for cleaning in decades.  I know that even with a decades long experience, any intervention will do more damage than benefit.

 

Pens should not be much different. Certainly they weren't some decades ago, and I understand quality pens still are designed and made not to be taken apart, and advised not to.

 

I think the only pens that I know that are actually designed with users taking them apart and play tuning them in mind are Noodler's.

 

Yeah, I do clean -for example- my hands before eating, but that's for health reasons, as I do clean cuttlery, dishes and kitchenware, but I haven't needed to drink ink so far (fingers crossed). Ink has plenty of biocides, so no need for any health paranoia.

YMMV, of course, but if it is a cheap pen, I do not see the point in the hassle given the cost of replacement, and if it is a quality one, it is my belief, that you shouldn't need to.

 

If it gives you pleasure or a Zen moment, great, but consider that, IMMHO, it might actually be reducing the life of the pen. 

 

Note my insistence in highlighting that this is my opinion, for I may be utterly wrong.

 

I think you are right. The normal cycle of filling a pen does an in-out that is a mini-flush all by itself. I have a Parker cartoon-booklet, called "The Perils of Pamela Pen", which covers both aerometric and Vacumatic Parker 51s, plus the Parker Vacumatic She says "Fill me regularly -- whether I need ink or not! Give me plenty of fresh ink. Fill me up regularly....Don't wait till I start to run dry. Dry periods are harder on me than you might imagine". She says she wants to be flushed once a week with ink.

 

For all the do-it-yourself handymen, she says :never to open up the insides of a pen.  Get a trained professional. As we would say, "No user serviceable parts". I think that now applies to tearing a pen down below its components to get at all the parts that make up a component. 

 

Pamela says he likes to work. "A much used pen with its constantly flowing ink will keep cleaner and work better". 

 

 

[greencobra]

i'm in that school of thought there's no need to disassemble a pen. me. i'm lazy and the only time i flush is when i change ink color, which is usually never in some pens. i'm not one for flowery color inks. i'm boring, black and blue work well for me. that montblanc british racing green was a stretch for me. and sometimes i just change the color with no flush out. i just dropped that diamine sherwood green on top of the remnants of a waterman black convertor. took forever to finally change over but no ill effects. just didn't want to do a 15 minute flush. 

 

i started this thread to see what others were doing to get their pen to flush clear water. i've never seen clear water come out of one of my pens. i've flushed for over 30 minutes and i do soak the nib if i'm able, but still run tinted ink at the end. it doesn't bother me, i fill with ink and go. if people are reporting their flushed water is clear i have to take them at their word, but dang...my river does not run clean.

[kestrel]

16 hours ago, txomsy said:

Personally, but do not take me too seriously, I think that that is unnecessary wear. Threads, parts may erode and/or end giving up. Metal, specially, may rust. And colors and materials may fade and suffer. I believe that pens (well, most things actually) are not made to be taken apart unless absolutely needed for repair. Or they should. At least high end, well made and crafted pens are sold under such premise. For me (but that's my personal opinion) there is no need for such paranoia.

 

Same for the engine in my car. I do not take it apart for cleaning whenever I fill the fuel tank. Maybe the second hand seller will clean the engine before selling it. But that's about it.

 

I've known since, like, forever, that electronic devices attract and accumulate dust like crazy. At one point it was even customary to use a vacuum cleaner to remove dust from supercomputer circuits --four decades ago-- when servicing (once in a blue moon). But I do not disassemble my music equipment, TV, computer, cell phone periodically (actually never), ceiling lamps only when too much dust has accumulated (maybe twice in a blue moon), and haven't disassembled a supercomputer for cleaning in decades.  I know that even with a decades long experience, any intervention will do more damage than benefit.

 

Pens should not be much different. Certainly they weren't some decades ago, and I understand quality pens still are designed and made not to be taken apart, and advised not to.

 

I think the only pens that I know that are actually designed with users taking them apart and play tuning them in mind are Noodler's.

 

Yeah, I do clean -for example- my hands before eating, but that's for health reasons, as I do clean cuttlery, dishes and kitchenware, but I haven't needed to drink ink so far (fingers crossed). Ink has plenty of biocides, so no need for any health paranoia.

YMMV, of course, but if it is a cheap pen, I do not see the point in the hassle given the cost of replacement, and if it is a quality one, it is my belief, that you shouldn't need to.

 

If it gives you pleasure or a Zen moment, great, but consider that, IMMHO, it might actually be reducing the life of the pen. 

 

Note my insistence in highlighting that this is my opinion, for I may be utterly wrong.

I'm pretty sure I disassemble my pens more than @txomsy for the simple reason that most of my pens are vintage and have parts (sacs) that need replacing once in a while.  He's right.  Taking things apart increases wear on parts and increases the risk of damage.  Anyone who works on vintage pens will confirm that the most hazardous part of restoring a nonRFI pen to normal function is removing the section.  Almost as risky is knocking out the nib and feed (to be done only when absolutely necessary).  There are multiple TWSBI threads about the dangers of taking them apart and overtightening during assembly, causing cracks in the plastic.  If it ain't broke I don't take it apart.

[vicpen123]

I never change inks (use only Parker Quink black) so never have to clean my pens for this reason. I only clean them when I rotate pens.

 

But I find cleaning pens to be a chore so my rotations are rare. If I am happy with the current pen, it will stay in use for protracted period so that can avoid cleaning.

[Misfit]

When I clean pens, it’s never done in 5 minutes. I work at it to see clean water go through, and put them in a paper towel lined cup to dry. The pens are laughing at me. Clean! Ha!  Because when I pick them up, there are colorful spots where their nibs were drying out. 

[txomsy]

I think that is the whole point.

 

Ink is a water solution/suspension. That means that whatever gives the color must by hydrophilic. And this, in turn, means that if you let it dry and resuspend it in water, it should.

 

That actually matches my experience with acquired vintage pens that were left to dry fully inked who knows how long ago.

 

So, the point is that if you let enough ink to dry that it can not be resuspended, it will evnetually accumulate until it obstructs the ink channel (if you systematically let it dry). Anything below that threshold (specially with continued writing use) is meaningless: the next time you fill the pen the water will redissolve/resuspend the dried ink and it will be washed away as you write. And it it doesn't fully, if you keep inking and using the pen (without letting it dry), each use should redissolve a bit more until it is clean.

 

So, no need to be so demanding with cleaning.

 

But this bears the question as to "how much is enough?". That depends on the ink.

 

My experience with my own forgotten pens and acquired vintage pens leads me to believe that a full load forgotten and left to dry of traditional, so deemed "safe" ink, water soluble, is not a problem and will redissolve on next use(s).

 

Modern inks, oversaturated or nano pigment inks may leave a greater deposit or be less soluble, and may require a somewhat deeper cleaning, but even so, a bit of deposit should -in theory at least- not pose a major problem.

 

A warning should be issued though: one should be aware of the pH of the ink (acid + basic = reaction, possibly -not necessarily- insoluble deposit and clogging) to avoid mixing incompatible inks, or either use "safe" inks (which are typically neutral), or either use always the same or compatible inks.

 

Otherwise, personally, I do not see any reason for paranoia. A bit (or even a lot, depending on the ink) of ink left should not be a problem. That's why, pens like to be used frequently.