Sheaffer Lifetime Nib/Feed (Vac) - Will NOT go in (re-insert)...

[Emc^2]

Hi all,

 

I am finishing my repair of a Balance Vac, and I am trying to set the nib and feed, and they will not seat in the section far enough in! I have never had this problem before. I have attempted to reseat it about 5 times. Every time I find myself exerting more force than I believe is a proper amount and so I back off, say a few chosen words, scratch my head, knock it back out, and figure out what the hell is wrong. I have looked inside the section, I do not see any old nib edge marks to see where it was seated before (this is my fault for not doing this when I took it apart). I have rotated where I attempt to place the nib and feed when inserting it...the only other thing I can THINK of is to set the section in the freezer or fridge (for a brief few minutes) to get it to shrink and therefore expand the size of the section hole, but that is just pure speculation as I try to figure out how to get this darn thing back in. It is the nib and feed that came/original with the pen, so it's not that I am trying to replace these parts. I am out of ideas.

 

Any suggestions?

[bsenn]

I normally insert nib/feeds with my hand, holding the nib/feed with a piece of rubber. When I run into difficult-to-insert nib/feeds I turn to a parallel jaw pliers which has a groove down one jaw. I still use the piece of rubber between the jaws and the nib/feed and just push. I don't recall that ever not working. Doesn't help you right now though. Without the pliers I would try a little heat on the feed to make it pliable and a little vac lube to make things slippery. 

[Ron Z]

A thick piece of rubber to hold nib and feed in parallel jaw pliers helps.  Start with lining up the nib and feed to the same spot in the section.  I work with a lamp overhead, and a white piece of paper on the bench.  The light reflected up through will let you see the impression left by the nib and feed on the inside wall of the section.  Start the nib and feed in that spot and set as far as you can go by hand.  I also warm the section so that the material isn't so rigid before pressing the nib and feed deeper.

 

When you're done, always check to make sure that the nib and feed are set deep enough that it will clear the end of the cap.  Two chopsticks, bamboo coffee stirrers etc. side by side work.  One catches the edge of the inner cap, the other reaches down to the bottom.  It will show you how deep the inner cap is.  Put the forward one on the end of the section.  If the tip of the nib clears the back one, you're good.  It doesn't have to be by much,  it just has to clear.  

[bsenn]

1 hour ago, Ron Z said:

A thick piece of rubber to hold nib and feed in parallel jaw pliers helps. 

 

Yes, I use scraps of rubber roofing material. Tractor and truck innertubes are also nice and thick.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

+1 for using heat. The other thing I'd add is to try scrubbing the inside of the section with some q-tips and some soapy water. It's possible there's a little bit of dried up ink that is preventing the nib and feed from going in smoothly. Even a tiny bit of resistance can make a difference with how tightly fit some of these nib assemblies are.

 

Also, patience is key. I destroyed a nib and feed about a year ago trying to shove it in when it would not fit. Accidentally applied some upward pressure while pressing it in and snapped the nib and feed at the base. I still feel bad about it, it was a nice Aikin Lambert pen.

[Emc^2]

23 hours ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

+1 for using heat.

 

Normal physics tells me that heat will make the section and feed expand, which isn't what I want it to do, therefore, making it harder for me to insert...unless ebonite shrinks under heat?

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Unless I am confused, heating the section should cause it to expand which should make the hole for the feed bigger? Also a little bit of dry heat is always good because it makes the materials a little more elastic, making it less likely for the section to crack or split if you use too much force when pushing the feed in.

 

At least this is what I've heard, maybe someone more experienced can confirm or deny.

[Ron Z]

6 minutes ago, Emc^2 said:

 

Normal physics tells me that heat will make the section and feed expand, which isn't what I want it to do, therefore, making it harder for me to insert...unless ebonite shrinks under heat?

 

I rarely do this, but look at my signature line.  I've been repairing pens for about 30 years, and warming a section before reinserting is a standard procedure - as is warming the barrel a bit before inserting the section. I understand  "normal" physics, but heat can not only be use to  get material back to it's original shape if the nib and feed are loose, but it is also used to relax the  material so that the nib  and feed can be inserted.  Not hot to the point where it is soft, but warm enough that the section will relax a bit and can be compressed as you insert the nib and feed.  You might be able to just force it in but stand the chance of breaking something, like the feed or section, if you do.  You may need to warm it more than once as you work the nib and feed in.

 

Resist the urge to shave the feed or inside of the section to make it easier set nib and feed in place.  Don't.  It was there before you took the pen apart, so will go back together. 

 

 

[Emc^2]

8 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

 

I rarely do this, but look at my signature line.  I've been repairing pens for about 30 years, and warming a section before reinserting is a standard procedure - as is warming the barrel a bit before inserting the section. I understand  "normal" physics, but heat can not only be use to  get material back to it's original shape if the nib and feed are loose, but it is also used to relax the  material so that the nib  and feed can be inserted.  Not hot to the point where it is soft, but warm enough that the section will relax a bit and can be compressed as you insert the nib and feed.  You might be able to just force it in but stand the chance of breaking something, like the feed or section, if you do.  You may need to warm it more than once as you work the nib and feed in.

 

Resist the urge to shave the feed or inside of the section to make it easier set nib and feed in place.  Don't.  It was there before you took the pen apart, so will go back together. 

 

 

 

I have in the mean time between responding used heat (tried twice), and it's not making any advancement whatsoever. I am rather bamboozled by this predicament. I am starting to wonder if, even though I received the pen with such parts, if they were not in fact original parts to the pen, and the previous person who had this pen did some scrupulous things to get these to fit together. They look original, nothing "weird" or non-Parker from the looks. I have never had such a stubborn feed. And to note, this nib/need will only go in maybe 60-70% of the way in, and that is using a lot of force.

 

I find it funny that you mentioned not to shave the inside of the section...that has been a constant thought, and I may resort to doing so if I have exhausted all other options, I don't see what else to do with it.

[Emc^2]

28 minutes ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

Unless I am confused, heating the section should cause it to expand which should make the hole for the feed bigger? Also a little bit of dry heat is always good because it makes the materials a little more elastic, making it less likely for the section to crack or split if you use too much force when pushing the feed in.

 

At least this is what I've heard, maybe someone more experienced can confirm or deny.

 

The outer rim of the section will expand, but the inner section will also expand and that will push outwards (inwards towards the center, therefore shrinking the hole diameter that the nib and feed are supposed to slide into.

[Emc^2]

2 minutes ago, Emc^2 said:

They look original, nothing "weird" or non-Parker from the looks.

 

***Correction - SHEAFFER, not Parker***

[Ron Z]

26 minutes ago, Emc^2 said:

 

The outer rim of the section will expand, but the inner section will also expand and that will push outwards (inwards towards the center, therefore shrinking the hole diameter that the nib and feed are supposed to slide into.

 

No.  Really.  You need have to heat the section.   You will be able to move it in a bit at a time, and it may take several tries before it is set in all the way.  I've assembled NOS nib units using the correct factory parts, and  the fit seemed to be unbelievably tight, but the parts were correct, just not put together.  The only way that I could fit the parts together was to repeatedly heat the section.

 

The nib is a wedge, thinner at the tail, thicker at the tip, so as you push the nib and feed in it gets tighter.  You want it to be tight, otherwise the nib will be able to shift off center, which screws up tine alignment and more.  Warming the section allows it to soften enough that the nib and feed can move farther in.

 

When Richard Binder and I were in the Sheaffer service center  years aago we saw a nib assembly press.  A holder for the section, a bit that gripped nib and feed and held them in alignment, and a lever about a foot long.  Pull the lever down and it just shoved the nib and feed into the section  - with a lot of force.  We heat things to make it easier to do by hand, and to relieve stress on decades old materials.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Anecdotally, I feel like Sheaffer have the tightest feed/nib tolerances of most of the vintage pens I've used. Particularly the early Lifetime nibs on the flat tops and early Balances. It always takes me more force to knock them out and putting them back is even tougher vs. Waterman/Parker/Wahl/etc. pens.

 

@Emc^2 have you tried scrubbing (not filing/sanding) the inside of the section and the sides of the feed? I've found that even a little bit of debris or dried up ink can make a difference for these. I have also found it helpful sometimes to use a gentle twisting motion as I put them in, but I'd be careful with this because if you over-torque it you can damage the nib/feed.

[bsenn]

This thread is a good reminder that unless there is a specific reason to knock out a nib and feed, don't.

[Ron Z]

12 minutes ago, bsenn said:

This thread is a good reminder that unless there is a specific reason to knock out a nib and feed, don't.

 

As any professional, and they'll agree!  We don't knock them out unless there is evidence of schmutz that didn't come out when the ran the nib unit through the ultrasonic.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

It's keeping me from knocking out a nib in a Sheaffer Balance I just got. I want to clean out the visulated section because it's so filthy I can't see through it at all. But I know it's not worth the effort, especially since my pen is from the time period when they used the bushings for the smaller nibs and they're a pain in the neck. I think I'll deal with having a dirty ink window.

[FarmBoy]

If you heat the section both the OD and ID will expand. 

[Emc^2]

9 hours ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

@Emc^2 have you tried scrubbing (not filing/sanding) the inside of the section and the sides of the feed? I've found that even a little bit of debris or dried up ink can make a difference for these. I have also found it helpful sometimes to use a gentle twisting motion as I put them in, but I'd be careful with this because if you over-torque it you can damage the nib/feed.

 

Yes, I have done this a couple of times since trying to put the nib and feed back in. NOTHING is working. I genuinely feel that the rather tight fit of this part of the pen is rather overkill.

 

*Grumpy face*

[Emc^2]

7 hours ago, bsenn said:

This thread is a good reminder that unless there is a specific reason to knock out a nib and feed, don't.

 

Lesson is being learned with Sheaffer's.

[Emc^2]

Update: I was FINALLLLLLLY able to get the feed and nib back in. I had to use my knock-out block to place the section pointing up (nib tip facing up) and use a rubber grip and my custom nib pliers to grab the feed and nib and then gently tap down which gave enough force to slide it back into place. 

 

Thanks for all the help and conversation. This was not fun. But a learning experience.