Am I the only one who thinks the 51 doesnt really hold up aestheticly?

[VacNut]

👍

[VacNut]

🌌

[Glenn-SC]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:11 PM, FarmBoy said:

I doubt any number will satisfy. 

Why are you so afraid of facts?  That is all that I am looking for. I am not questioning or challenging the thought that FB is not the definition authority on all things “51”.  I just seeking information, truth, and facts.  Everyone should want that. 

1. I do not know how Parker applied their date stamps.  a) Was the date applied simultaneously with all the other information or separately?  b) Could it be added separately if desired?
2. Why would Parker not date stamp these pens?  (They date stamped pens prior to and after this time,)
3. Would Parker purposely make pens ahead of the official release date and not “date stamp” them until they knew when the pens would be released?
4. Was this “release” for the 1940 Christmas season in San Francisco unique?  Or were there were other similar events?  (I.e., since the 1939 pens were test marketed elsewhere, was this a US “slot release” and domestic market test?) 
5. Did Parker early release a batch of “51”s for the San Francisco event and purposely or accidentally not date stamp them?

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT PARKER DID NOT MAKE “51”s in 1940!  

[inkstainedruth]

I think it was "How many roads must a man walk down?" but it's been a while since I've read the series.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[VacNut]

“The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.”

NdGT

[Glenn-SC]

“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”

 

Albert Einstein

 

 

[Estycollector]

Everyone, we have a friend and expert residing @ Parker "51" – Dedicated to Parker "51" Pens (parker51.com) . Why not shoot an email and get a definitive answer instead of bickering? 

 

email: repairs@parker51.com

[FarmBoy]

5 hours ago, Estycollector said:

Everyone, we have a friend and expert residing @ Parker "51" – Dedicated to Parker "51" Pens (parker51.com) . Why not shoot an email and get a definitive answer instead of bickering? 

 

email: repairs@parker51.com

Tim and I talk daily.

[FarmBoy]

19 hours ago, Glenn-SC said:

Why are you so afraid of facts?  That is all that I am looking for. I am not questioning or challenging the thought that FB is not the definition authority on all things “51”.  I just seeking information, truth, and facts.  Everyone should want that. 

1. I do not know how Parker applied their date stamps.  a) Was the date applied simultaneously with all the other information or separately?  b) Could it be added separately if desired?
2. Why would Parker not date stamp these pens?  (They date stamped pens prior to and after this time,)
3. Would Parker purposely make pens ahead of the official release date and not “date stamp” them until they knew when the pens would be released?
4. Was this “release” for the 1940 Christmas season in San Francisco unique?  Or were there were other similar events?  (I.e., since the 1939 pens were test marketed elsewhere, was this a US “slot release” and domestic market test?) 
5. Did Parker early release a batch of “51”s for the San Francisco event and purposely or accidentally not date stamp them?

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT PARKER DID NOT MAKE “51”s in 1940!  

1:  Single stamp imprint with the date code.  Dots were removed as the quarters changed.  Examples of the stamps have been found though I do not own one if you need proof.

 

2:  I have no way of knowing why the didn't put a 0 on the stamp.  Maybe they thought it wasn't needed.

 

3:  Seems they stamped pens as part of the production and it doesn't seem logical that they would have bins and bins of pens sitting around not headed for sale.

 

4:  Not unique to the SF market.  Other invitations have been found with no names.  There is a discussion of the early marketing in a book as well.

 

5:  No special release of pens to the SF market that I am aware of.  Marketing would have been in all the major markets at once.

[VacNut]

5 hours ago, Estycollector said:

Everyone, we have a friend and expert residing @ Parker "51" – Dedicated to Parker "51" Pens (parker51.com) . Why not shoot an email and get a definitive answer instead of bickering? 

 

email: repairs@parker51.com

The Parker 51 collectors are a tight knit and amiable group. They never try to besmirch other collectors and “authoritative” sources. A lot of new information was gathered when the US factory closed, subsequent to the publication of “the” books.

 

Please keep in mind, Parker made at least hundreds of thousands pens a year. To test market a pen requires a supply network, assembly of parts, training of workers, marketing materials, and research development. I have no documents to back up my claim, but it would be very unlikely that only 10 pens were made. (I can’t imagine someone ordering lucite stock, creating threaded aluminum speedline fillers or gold caps+clips for 10 pens). Creating a steel die that would imprint a date code or 51 logo would also be an unnecessary, laborious task for a test market pen. A date code is only relevant if Parker knew there would be subsequent pens the following quarter.

 

Then again I am not the Parker 51 authority, but one has replied.

[VacNut]

As a side note, the Parker 51 Red Band Fillers were made for less than a year. The 3-4 examples I have seen do not have a date code or logo. Have the imprints been worn off? Not likely.

There are later assembled pens from found stock after the factory closed, which may not have been imprinted. Perhaps I was just unlucky to see only the assembled pens.

 

You can read about the red band history on this forum.

[FarmBoy]

1 hour ago, VacNut said:

As a side note, the Parker 51 Red Band Fillers were made for less than a year. The 3-4 examples I have seen do not have a date code or logo. Have the imprints been worn off? Not likely.

There are later assembled pens from found stock after the factory closed, which may not have been imprinted. Perhaps I was just unlucky to see only the assembled pens.

 

You can read about the red band history on this forum.

Mine have a 6 date code as they should.

[apastuszak]

Forgive me for not reading all 6 pages of this thread to see where the conversation has wandered to. But I'd like to answer the original question.

 

I think all Parker 51s look great. But the newer designs without the jewels from the 60s onward, I think look timeless. It's a simple elegant design. Especially the silver caps.

 

I still love the look of the cap on older 51s. But I don't think those caps are "timeless." The newer design with the simple arrow clip on a silver cap are timeless to me.

[VacNut]

3 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Mine have a 6 date code as they should.

I think we need an authority…😂😂😂😂👍

[es9]

8 hours ago, VacNut said:

As a side note, the Parker 51 Red Band Fillers were made for less than a year. The 3-4 examples I have seen do not have a date code or logo. Have the imprints been worn off? Not likely.

There are later assembled pens from found stock after the factory closed, which may not have been imprinted. Perhaps I was just unlucky to see only the assembled pens.

 

You can read about the red band history on this forum.

I believe the one I owned a while back had one too. 

[yubaprof]

Of the 35 or so pens I own and write with, only three are 51s and I rarely use them. My preference in fountain pens is based on both function and  aesthetics. For me, the nib is the most important consideration. Can I write well with it? Does it lend my hand legibility and style? After the nib is the shape of the pen. Is it large enough? Is the girth great enough that I don't have to grip too hard? But then again, I don't want a pen that is too difficult to handle and seems awkward. I have several Montblancs, but not a single 149. It's too big at the center for me to hold comfortably. The 146, however, is for me just right. So is the Pelikan M800 and the Aurora Optima. For each one of these pens the first consideration was how they write for me. Also, they are - all three of them - consistent and reliable writers. As I am seriously color blind I don't put much stock in colors, so that is not for me a big issue in this discussion.

I do, of course, value aesthetics and the three pens mentioned above fill the bill for me in terms of this category. I think they are classy pens without being ostentatious. Yes, they are expensive, but I buy used ("previously owned") so I don't pay top dollar. I know many folks think that the Montblanc is a "look at me" pen, but that is not the pen's fault. It's a really good pen even if it is over-priced when sold as new. 

OK, now for the Parker 51. The nib is incredibly reliable. It writes every time, even after leaving it aside for several months. It does not, however, do anything for my handwriting. It reliably puts ink on paper in a highly utilitarian manner, but not much else. The pens mentioned above are very reliable, and on top of that, add to my writing experience, unlike the 51. And then there is the hooded aspect of the 51 nib. It is boring, boring, boring.  It has no aesthetic appeal. None. Nada. Did I mention that it is boring? OK, I'll let that go. The Parker is also too slender for me. I have to grip it too tightly and my hand cramps up. Finally, there is that lustraloy cap. Really? Yuk and double yuk. I know that back in the first half of the twentieth century - the half of the century that I happened to have been born in - most people could not afford expensive pens and the lustraloy cap was affordable. But that is not usually the case today. Most folks who are into fountain pens can afford something better than that cap. Rather than putting out a new version of the 51, Parker might have been better off manufacturing new caps to replace all of those lusraloys still out there. (Yes, I am joking.) The bottom line for me is that the 51 is a utilitarian pen that is very functional, but really boring. 

[greencobra]

lots of interesting answers, and then some, to the original post. i can't add anything except a little story. long before i figured out there were other tools to write with besides the popular and plentiful bic 19 cent school pens, i was sitting in a car dealership with my parents while they were finalizing the purchase of a used vehicle. this was in the late 1960's. i don't remember anything special of that day, not even what car they bought. i do remember the salesman used a "51" to complete the sales documents. all those years ago and that's what i still remember of that one day in my 70 year old life, the salesman's pen. of course i didn't know that pen had a name until several years later, but i did think at the time how cool that pen was. it musta been, right? left an impression on a 14 year old boy. many years later i bought one of my own. and for those following along at home, i still think it looks cool.

[txomsy]

Back to the original topic, I must say that the design of the 51 is certainly atemporal, a masterpiece that fully fits the needs, with no frills, simple and elegant. That is easily demonstrated by its survival through time. That it is functional, without bells and whistles is a hallmark of great design.

 

Aesthetics... that is so highly subjective that each is entitled to their own opinion. Some will want more details, or more simplicity, or decorations, or whatever... and that is OK for we need not (and should not) be all totally equal in all aspects. Variation is the salt of life.

 

Personally, I had a few when I was a barbarian kid/teen, and never liked the combination of resin and metal, I prefer even more simplicity, all the same material, either all metal or all plastic, and non-hooded nibs, which is why I personally prefer classic Montblanc pens (the new LEs I find gaudy, not for me either). But that is only me. So, for me (for my austere taste) it is disturbing, falling a bit short of my preferences. And I am sure that many will complain the opposite, that it is too simple, boring, etc... But I do reckon it is still a masterpiece of design.

 

As long as we talk aesthetics, any opinion is valid and, being subjective, irrefutable.

[ParramattaPaul]

9 hours ago, txomsy said:

Back to the original topic, I must say that the design of the 51 is certainly atemporal, a masterpiece that fully fits the needs, with no frills, simple and elegant. That is easily demonstrated by its survival through time. That it is functional, without bells and whistles is a hallmark of great design.

 

Aesthetics... that is so highly subjective that each is entitled to their own opinion. Some will want more details, or more simplicity, or decorations, or whatever... and that is OK for we need not (and should not) be all totally equal in all aspects. Variation is the salt of life.

 

Personally, I had a few when I was a barbarian kid/teen, and never liked the combination of resin and metal, I prefer even more simplicity, all the same material, either all metal or all plastic, and non-hooded nibs, which is why I personally prefer classic Montblanc pens (the new LEs I find gaudy, not for me either). But that is only me. So, for me (for my austere taste) it is disturbing, falling a bit short of my preferences. And I am sure that many will complain the opposite, that it is too simple, boring, etc... But I do reckon it is still a masterpiece of design.

 

As long as we talk aesthetics, any opinion is valid and, being subjective, irrefutable.

Like you, I find the combination of plastic (resin,as you said) and metal unattractive and personally unappealing.  Also, slip fit cap pens are not a favourite.