Am I the only one who thinks the 51 doesnt really hold up aestheticly?

[Estycollector]

 "Mainly the clip was without the Blue Diamond guarantee, similar to the Vacumatic clips of the era, but uniquely sized to fit the “51” caps.  Most of the test market pens were fitted with a Lustraloy “wedding band” cap.  In addition, the test market pens had a steel nib, unlike the 14k gold nib used in later production pens. "

“51” History (parker51.com)

 

[FarmBoy]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:39 AM, Armo said:

The Parker 51 does in fact have its roots in the Bauhaus. The original designs where by Lazlo Moholy-Nagy who was head of the metal workshop there. The design is clean, functional and timeless. The 45 is one pen I have never been tempted by. For me it looks fussy, over elaborate and over worked as a design (which I quess is 3 ways of saying the same thing). I also dislike the Lamy 2K. Its texture reminds me of the brutalist achitecture that was so prevalent in the 50's. To each their own I quess.

Just a note on this idea.  The original design patents are US Design Patents No. 116,097 and No. 116,098 issued August 8 1939.  The patents make it perfectly clear that the pen was desgined by Kenneth Parker and Marlin Baker.  Moholy-Nagy was certainly an acquaintance of Kenneth Parker.  He was at times employed by Parker spending time in Janseville serving as a design resource.  Though Moholy-Nagy didn't design the "51" he compliments the design in his 1947 book, Vision in Motion, stating "This pen with its cnclosed mechanism is one of the most successful and harmonious designs of small utilitarian objects."

 

Moholy-Nagy contributed to Parker "51" desk pen designs and the Magnetix desk base was his design covered under US Patent No. 2,503,061 which was assigned to Parker Pen Co.

 

Anna May Wong, a student of Moholy-Nagy was also involved in designs for later products as well as another student Nolan Rhoades.  There is at least a chapter on all three in Parker design history.

[FarmBoy]

I do not know why Parker chose to omit date codes on the 1940 production pens.  That they were sold in 1940 is well documented.  San Francisco based Schwabacher-Frey Company a well known retail outlet for Parker sent out invitations to good customers for an unveiling of the pen in November of 1940.  (Sorry about the poor image quality.)  A follow up letter to Kenneth Parker from Ned Thomas, Retail Store Manager, indicated that the sales were brisk and that the "51" was sure to be a success.

 

[VacNut]

I think we are going to need to see more documentation….😂😂😂😂😂

Date codes actually seem to a particularity. Parker didn’t pay much attention to them prior to the depression and dropped them in the later 51s.

 

The codes are only needed if you assume a restorer would need to know the pens particular production date to repair the pen, otherwise they really don’t serve a purpose - except for collectors.

 

I am pretty sure Parker would have preferred owners to buy newer pens than to repair 5-10 year old 51’s.

 

I am also assuming that Parker did not have the foresight to think their pens would be collectors items after 70 years.

Early collectors tell of finding piles and piles of Parker’s for pennies on the dollar in the 70’s and 80’s.

[FarmBoy]

1 hour ago, VacNut said:

I think we are going to need to see more documentation….😂😂😂😂😂

Date codes actually seem to a particularity. Parker didn’t pay much attention to them prior to the depression and dropped them in the later 51s.

 

The codes are only needed if you assume a restorer would need to know the pens particular production date to repair the pen, otherwise they really don’t serve a purpose - except for collectors.

 

I am pretty sure Parker would have preferred owners to buy newer pens than to repair 5-10 year old 51’s.

 

I am also assuming that Parker did not have the foresight to think their pens would be collectors items after 70 years.

Early collectors tell of finding piles and piles of Parker’s for pennies on the dollar in the 70’s and 80’s.

I’m not sure where to start. 

[VacNut]

The internet affords us a bit of anonymity, but we should take some statements by long time members on its face value, unless we have contradictory information from firsthand trusted source (see below).

A published book is a protracted multi-year process coalesced from multiple sources - company documents, archives, folklore, family stories, and just good story-telling. For us “newbies” these books are invaluable in drawing  us deeper into our hobby, by providing us background and insight into the history. 

At the time of publication, the authors were not always able to revisit the draft or re-validate the information. It is understandable that some of the information may be out of date or incorrect as more information comes to light -  my favorite vacumatic book was published over 15 years ago, which means the gathered information is probably over 17-18 years old if not older. Please keep in mind that these books are intended as  “coffee table” books, not scholarly publications.
 

I am not diminishing the value of these books. They contain valuable information in a neat, eye-catching package. They are just not the final word.

 

Geoffrey Parker and David Sheperd attend pen shows. If you are interested in learning more about Parker, I highly encourage everyone to meet them at these shows as they sometimes give small talks, but please be polite and courteous. - they are people who have lives outside of pens (unlike some of us . 🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️)
 

(I had the pleasure of speaking with David this weekend. He was kind enough to speak with me at the show. He was offering all of his books at an astoundingly low price of £75 HB! (New and autographed by the author.), so you may get an added bonus.)

BTW, it is not easy to write a book about Parker Pens. It is unlikely that another book will be published in the near future for a multitude of reasons.
 

jumping off my soapbox, now.

(...jump…)

 

 

[VacNut]

Sorry,

Forgot to mention, Parker is still a corporation. One can’t simply “publish” a company document on the internet without potential legal liabilities.

[VacNut]

Just now, VacNut said:

Sorry,

Forgot to mention, Parker is still a corporation. One can’t simply “publish” a company document on the internet without potential legal liabilities.

 …and personal liabilities.

[Glenn-SC]

18 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

I do not know why Parker chose to omit date codes on the 1940 production pens.  That they were sold in 1940 is well documented.  San Francisco based Schwabacher-Frey Company a well known retail outlet for Parker sent out invitations to good customers for an unveiling of the pen in November of 1940.

Are all the known “undated” “51”s tied to this event?  Or were they found in other locations in the world?

[FarmBoy]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:38 AM, Glenn-SC said:

Are all the known “undated” “51”s tied to this event?  Or were they found in other locations in the world?

One just turned up at an antique mall a few miles from home (Janesville).

[Glenn-SC]

12 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

One just turned up at an antique mall a few miles from home (Janesville).

Wonder!  
But that didn’t answer my question.  
Since Parker was located in Janesville, I would expect just about anything made at their factory (either production, experimental, accidental, official or “off book”/franken-pen) to show up in that area. [I would expect the existence of off-spec, employee made, etc. pens to appear in-the-wild there as the owners pass on or sell-off their stuff.  A Parker employee taking a pen prior to it being date stamped is a plausible event.]

IF the only “undated” vac “51”s found (other than those located near the factory) are associated with a single event/location, it is possible that the undated pens were made specifically for that event, or were being held at the factory awaiting date stamps but were shipped to that event (display prior to the 1940 Christmas period) before their date stamps were applied, or in the rush forgotten to be applied. 
However, if “undated” pens are documented as being sold in multiple locations about that time then a different explanation of their lack of dating (which Parker had been doing since at least 1934 (?) and why would they suddenly not stamp these pens?) is needed. 
I am just looking for an explanation for the lack of a date code. 

[Glenn-SC]

13 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

One just turned up at an antique mall a few miles from home (Janesville).

How many “undated” “51”s have been found (and where)?
 

A single event should not be used to define the norm and the norm should not be used to deny single events. 

[FarmBoy]

There are enough well imprinted 51s missing the 1 to establish 1940 pens have no 0 on them. 
 

also note worthy is very early caps have a different clutch. 

[Glenn-SC]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:06 PM, FarmBoy said:

There are enough well imprinted 51s missing the 1 to establish 1940 pens have no 0 on them. 

How many is “enough”?

1? 10? 100? 1000?

I am just trying to gather information to draw some kind of conclusion. 
 

1 is an aberration, 100 is a trend, 1000 is a norm. 

 

[inkstainedruth]

Good question.  I don't know enough to have a good answer, other than "If it's rare, then it's likely I can't afford the pen REGARDLESS...."

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[VacNut]

1 hour ago, Glenn-SC said:

How many is “enough”?

1? 10? 100? 1000?

I am just trying to gather information to draw some kind of conclusion. 
 

1 is an aberration, 100 is a trend, 1000 is a norm. 

 

 

42

 

 

 

[FarmBoy]

13 minutes ago, VacNut said:

 

42

 

 

 

I doubt any number will satisfy. 
 

Enough have passed through my sphere that I’m confident 1940 as well as 1939 pens exist, are without date codes, and well documented.  

But I may not be a representative Parker 51 person. 

 

[inkstainedruth]

3 hours ago, VacNut said:

42

I see what you did there....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[VacNut]

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

I see what you did there....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Thx

it took me 7.5 million years

[RobNYC]

5 hours ago, VacNut said:

 

42

 

 

 

That is clearly the answer, but what is the question?