Gravitas/Kyuseido collaboration? Pump Piston filler pen (bought today at the SF pen show)

[Paul-in-SF]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:52 AM, Paul-in-SF said:

My conclusion from these indicators is that

 

7 hours ago, mke said:

On 10/17/2023 at 3:52 AM, Paul-in-SF said:

they source their nibs from different makers, at least some of whom are Japanese pen companies

Now that would be extremely surprising - if you talk about Pilot, Platinum or Sailor. To be honest, I cannot believe it.

 

Is there a reason you left off the first seven words of my sentence? I think they are material to the discussion, and refer to several paragraphs of background included in my post. Your quote makes it sound like I am stating what I think is a fact, rather than an opinion.

 

As far as my opinion is concerned, it may well be wrong, and I have no problem with you disagreeing with it. I just don't like to be misrepresented, even unintentionally. 

[Karmachanic]

8 hours ago, mke said:

Normally, the penturner/makers in Japan are a very closed circle which you cannot enter.

 

Scroll down to the "Flex" section on the nib page and you will see that they use Pilot #10 nibs for that purpose.

 

I'm asuming KYUSEIDO TOKYO means it's a Japanese company.

[mke]

8 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

Your quote makes it sound like I am stating what I think is a fact, rather than an opinion.

I did elaborate on the topic "sourcing nibs from Japanese companies" and not if you state that as a fact or an opinion. 

 

I guess KYUSEIDO TOKYO buy Pilot 10 pens or get the nib from the customer. Cannibalizing the nib from a pen is not what I call sourcing a nib from Japanese pen companies.

 

7 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

I'm asuming KYUSEIDO TOKYO means it's a Japanese company.

If you look from the legal side onto that, you are correct.

 -

Ask some Japanese companies who sell pens with nibs from Bock, Jowo why they don't sell their pens with Big3 nibs. Then ask those who do sell their pens with those nibs why they have access to these nibs.

It has to do with OB networks.

 

[XYZZY]

They sell a pen that is a Pilot Custom Heritage 92 that they have applied an urushi finish onto. My guess is that is all they are talking about, and if so, is not what I would consider "sourcing a nib".

 

My assumption is the the Kakari pen has a different nib. In other words, you don't get to choose to have that pen with a Pilot nib.

[Paul-in-SF]

15 hours ago, mke said:

I did elaborate on the topic "sourcing nibs from Japanese companies" and not if you state that as a fact or an opinion. 

 

That does not change the fact that you left the impression, unimpeded by your discussion, that I was stating what I thought was a fact. That is not honest discourse. There is no shame in making a mistake, and it's not so hard to at least acknowledge that you have done so. 

[XYZZY]

3 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

That does not change the fact that you left the impression, unimpeded by your discussion, that I was stating what I thought was a fact.

I didn't get that impression.  I thought his quote was merely the part he was replying to.  I formed/changed no opinion of you based on the quote, and am confused why anybody would.

[sannidh]

Below is the reply I had got from Kyuseido a while back. Sharing it in case it helps the discussion here.

1. Different parts are made in different places but we are happy to say that our pens meet all the standards for "MADE IN JAPAN". Of course this includes the nibs. Our nibs are not sourced from a major nib manufacturer. We have our own nib makers and they are excellent.
2. It would be between an Omas and a Sailor KOP in our opinion. Can be quite bouncy.
3. Our rod has 3 spokes that engage with the piston and also serve to break tension. It is not necessary to have another spike to break tension as our opening between the main barrel and the section is much wider than, for example, the Conid

PS. I finally bit the bullet and purchased a Kakari with a reverse stack nib.

[sannidh]

Removed post

Edited June 16 by sannidh
Duplicate

[Paul-in-SF]

21 hours ago, sannidh said:

1. Different parts are made in different places but we are happy to say that our pens meet all the standards for "MADE IN JAPAN". Of course this includes the nibs. Our nibs are not sourced from a major nib manufacturer. We have our own nib makers and they are excellent.

Quote actually from Kyuseido. 

 

Very interestingly worded. It makes one think that their nibs are made not only in Japan, but also in-house; however it is sufficiently ambiguous to leave room for doubt. "We have our own nib makers" could mean that they have one or more nib subcontractors (or wholly-owned subsidiaries) who work exclusively for/with Kyuseido. And one or more of those subcontractors/subsidiaries could be outside of Japan. I feel certain this ambiguity is not accidental or a result of translation issues. But I think it is clear that they do not source nibs from the Big 3 Japanese pen makers, nor from Bock, Jowo or Schmidt. 

[Number99]

On 6/17/2024 at 11:53 AM, Paul-in-SF said:

Quote actually from Kyuseido. 

 

Very interestingly worded. It makes one think that their nibs are made not only in Japan, but also in-house; however it is sufficiently ambiguous to leave room for doubt. "We have our own nib makers" could mean that they have one or more nib subcontractors (or wholly-owned subsidiaries) who work exclusively for/with Kyuseido. And one or more of those subcontractors/subsidiaries could be outside of Japan. I feel certain this ambiguity is not accidental or a result of translation issues. But I think it is clear that they do not source nibs from the Big 3 Japanese pen makers, nor from Bock, Jowo or Schmidt. 

Follow the X account of tokyostationpens, the maker of your pen.  He tweets(?) in Japanese, English and Chinese. I don't know about the pen nibs but I believe he stated that he imports the materials for his pens from the US.

There is also a way to reply or DM him.

 

Edited June 22 by Number99