Please help identify this antique Waterman Ideal

[Anderson218]

Hello to everybody. Please help me to identify this pen. There are located the following hallmarks on the body of the pen: the sponsor's mark - "F.D.W." (Frank D. Waterman son of   L.E. Waterman, and president of the company from 1904 to perhaps the 1930s); the hallmark of the traditional fineness symbol in the form of a lion, which means sterling silver; and the date letter mark in the form of the letter O, that means the pen was made in 1910-1913 years. There is a gift inscription: "Presented to Rev F.E. Birch by mission council & sydesmen". I suppose it’s Waterman Ideal and it was made in Great Britain between 1910-1913. Is it correct? And I couldn’t find the same or similar overlay patter 😢Maybe somebody has more information. Thank you so much 😊 

[pen lady]

Lovely old pen, is there a number of the end of the barrel?  I guess it's a slip-cap eye dropper fill (do you have the cap) and according to my English Silver Hallmark reference book,  the mark is from the London Assay office 1909.

 

Sydesmen (more properly Synodsmen) are Church officers; anciently appointed to assist the church-wardens in making presentments of ecclesiastical offences ...

 

 

 

 

[Anderson218]

5 hours ago, pen lady said:

Lovely old pen, is there a number of the end of the barrel?  I guess it's a slip-cap eye dropper fill (do you have the cap) and according to my English Silver Hallmark reference book,  the mark is from the London Assay office 1909.

 

Sydesmen (more properly Synodsmen) are Church officers; anciently appointed to assist the church-wardens in making presentments of ecclesiastical offences ...

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much. Unfortunately cap was missed:( There is no number on the body. I guess it might be on the cap. May you explain why it may made in 1909? 

[pen lady]

Different reference books I guess.  BTW If there is a number it will be on the rounded end of the barrel.

[Anderson218]

2 hours ago, pen lady said:

Different reference books I guess.  BTW If there is a number it will be on the rounded end of the barrel.

Thank you very much. May I ask? Do you know how is named overlay pattern on my pen? I couldn’t find any information 😢

[pen lady]

No, I looked around too and drew a blank.  The closest was a pattern in an American 1908 catalogue - Puritan, but it's not quite the same.  Maybe the British factory were producing their own ones?

[Anderson218]

I look again at the hallmark on my pen and I think it more likely to Sheffield Assay Office hallmark. And according to the reference book of British hallmarks the pen was made in 1906. What do you think?

[Anderson218]

There is no number on the top of barrel😢

[leveret_lettering]

Absolutely beautiful. Seems a present to a missionary. A variation on the 'Puritan' pattern might be appropriate here 😉 

[pen lady]

Nope! I still think it's London. The cartouches for Sheffield are not the same shape, before 1917 they were rectangular for both the ''sterling'' lion and the crown. The date letter for 1906 Sheffield is in gothic script in an octagonal cartouche. It's also more likely the Waterman pens would have been assayed in London as that where the factory was.

 

This is the thing about English silver, the dating and assay office origins are very precise - no guess-work if you have the right information.

 

 

[Anderson218]

Thank you very much for your help 😊

[pen lady]

You're welcome, this has been fun!