The myth of faded hard rubber Waterman Liason color....

[Ron Z]

I pulled out a red hard rubber Waterman Liaison that I've had for 15-20 years.  It's been in the case for quite a while, but I decided to work on the nib issues and use the pen.  Nib issues resolved (more below), I decided to polish the pen a bit.

 

A thread elsewhere on FPN mentions that the hard rubber on these pens fades, and that the area under the cap is much darker than the barrel.  Indeed the barrel on mine was as well.  Note the past tense. 

 

I tried buffing the barrel some time ago, but the only effect was a shinier barrel.  This time I pulled out a microfiber cloth and my tube of Wenol and started to clean the pen.  Cap first, then barrel with the bands masked to protect the plating.  No significant change in the lighter areas except shine. But the area that lives under the cap started to get lighter,  instead of the barrel getting darker,  and the more I cleaned it, the lighter it got.  Picture below.  I imagine that the color would be the same over the whole  barrel if I kept working on it.

 

So I challenge the idea that these barrels fade.  Rather, I think that the area under the cap is reacting to whatever is in the cap and is getting darker over time.  Simichrome works well too by the way.  Again, as I polished the color got lighter instead of darker as the material on the surface was removed.  The cap is next to the pen for comparison.  Very little polishing was done on the cap.

 

The thread that I refer to also says that the pens tend to skip.  There is a fix for that too.

 

If you try this on your pen, do remember to mask the gold trim before you start so that you don't polish the plating off.

[Uncial]

Could it be a case of dirty, oily fingers over the years of use?

[Ron Z]

I don't think so.  The darker area stopped right at the edge of the cap  there was a sharp line and color difference.  The pen spent more time in my pen case than in my hand.

 

I'd like to see some others try cleaning their pens.

[clear1]

Very interesting topic! Thanks!

I've seen some 'faded' ebonite pens that were sat under the light for long time. 

I guess this pen was stored in dark place? Maybe this makes the difference? Like, under the light, it fades, under the cap, it darkens?

[Ron Z]

Stored in a light free environment.  I earn my bread and butter repairing pens, and constantly work on hard rubber pens, so am very familiar with how hard rubber fades.  Cleaning  or buffing the back end of the barrel and cap caused no color change.  None.  It is not faded.  Cleaning the darkened area caused it to get lighter, some areas matching the rest of the pen perfectly.  I found it odd and interesting,  especially given the posts  elsewhere that say "this rubber fades."  It appears not to be the case at all.

 

Note that  I have had no problems with the nib unit leaking into the cap either.  The inside of the cap is, and has been, perfectly clean so it wasn't an ink stain.  I know what that looks like too.

[Paul-in-SF]

So any idea what might be in the cap that caused a darkened discoloration that can be reduced or removed by cleaning? Not related to leaking ink, check. What's left, I wonder. Absence of something, like fresh air? I'm thinking of something that might operate like celluloid deterioration, which is slowed down a lot by being exposed to open air -- some process that is producing a darkening agent that would normally be dissipated in the air but that was trapped under the cap. I assume it was stored empty, so not evaporated ink either. Is that black piece just behind the nib possibly made of something that might be slowly deteriorating? 

 

Just spitballing here, but it's fun to speculate. 

[Ron Z]

I have no idea.  The plastic of the "section" appears to be strong and intact.  The inner cap is clean and intact.  I did some more polishing, and the shadow is completely gone in some areas, and just a hint of a shadow in others if you look closely.  I find it to be very weird.  I would be delighted if someone else tried cleaning their pen and reported back.

[Uncial]

Wasn't there a de-oxidising juice that was touted on this site a while ago? You put the pen in a bath of it, left it a while, cleaned and polished it up. I recall there being photos of both black and red ripple examples. If we could find those again we might see if the pens still had a darkened section after treatment, and if they didn't and the barrel darkened to match then perhaps your polish is lightly abrasing the surface of the section to lighten it?

[Ron Z]

That's the thing.  Everyone says that the pens "fade", i.e. the exposed cap and barrel get lighter, hence the title.  But that hasn't been the case here.  I've seen the stuff you're talking about. Mark Hoover sells it.  It takes the lighter, oxidized material and makes it darker. 

[dipper]

On 7/19/2023 at 4:37 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

it's fun to speculate

..... with many possible explanations of this mystery.

 

One line thought is to note that ebonite is slightly porous (?), or at least it has some surface structure that promotes wetting when used to manufacture an ink feed.

 

Its apparent colour and lightness/darkness may be influenced by changes in that structure, and by other materials that may penetrate into that surface structure such as waxes, oils, etc.

 

Generally a crumbly broken surface structure will scatter light and make a surface appear lighter. A smoother glossy surface may reflect light giving small bright reflections with wider dark areas between. And light that penetrates a surface can reach pigments beneath, and reflect back from those pigments. (Pigments being anything from blacks and browns through to bright yellows or white.)

 

As a thought-experiment, imagine a sheet of "ground-glass" with some light or dark pigment on the underside. The dominant effect is the whitish ground or etched surface of the glass, tinted by the colour beneath. Now wipe a smear of water or oil onto the rough surface of the glass. The rough surface scattering effect is reduced. More light goes through the glass, bounces off the pigment beneath (or is absorbed by the pigment), and comes back out through the glass.

If the pigment was dark black then the film of oil will have made the object look darker. But if the pigment was bright red then the film of oil will have made the object look a stronger red colour.

 

Some of the variations in colour and tone values of ebonite, due to changes in surface structure, are mentioned here...

https://nikkoebonite.com/english_site/what_is_ebonite.html

[Ron Z]

So I need to ask.  Has anyone who is answering and speculating actually held one of these pens, and tried cleaning it to see what happens?

[dipper]

... and on the subject of "fading", many dyes and pigments do fade when exposed to light. That is a permanent chemical change (or molecular sructural change), and cannot be reversed by later  treatments of any type.

 

But there are some ancient pigments that are virtually indestructible and fade-proof. These include "earth" pigments, such as red ochre, yellow ochre, burnt-umber, and terre-verte. Also carbon blacks. Those pigments do appear to match many of the colour effects seen in manufactured ebonite products.

 

But, despite those pigments being guaranteed fade-proof, the end result when used in a paint or to colour ebonite etc may be an apparent fading effect.

 

I live in an old lime-washed cottage, repainted a cream colour this year. The painter who did the work explained to us how another colour choice would change over time. A deep red/pink colour is used in many local buildings (Suffolk Pink). Over time it will appear to fade due to lime crystallization on the outer surface. But when rain wets the walls they become a deep dark red-brown. Then lighten again as the wall dries.

 

The pigment has not faded, but the visual effect changes with the condition of the surface of the limewash layer.

[Ron Z]

Dipper.  You have never seen these pens, nor have you cleaned one, and seen the results, have you?

[clear1]

7 hours ago, Ron Z said:

So I need to ask.  Has anyone who is answering and speculating actually held one of these pens, and tried cleaning it to see what happens?

 I had one. its color was very slightly changed. its body color got lighter than when I first bought it. I didn't have any equipment to polish, but used some oil on the 'lighter' side. The color got darker a a little bit, I remember.