Some Ink Tests

[USG]

  On 11/14/2024 at 6:55 PM, AmericanMonk said:

Is this your sugarcane paper?
https://www.staples.com/treezero-treefree-100-recycled-8-1-2-x-11-multipurpose-paper-20-lbs-92-brightness-5-000-sheets-ct-228007534/product_697216

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Nope.  😀  My sugarcane paper is in the form of spiral notebooks.  About a year or so ago, I found an unopened bag of notebooks I bought at Staples something like 15 years ago.  In it was 2 of these B5 sugarcane notebooks.

 

 

[Lithium466]

  On 11/12/2024 at 4:48 PM, Penguincollector said:

 

@Lithium466, I understand that weird association with certain inks- but Waterman Florida Serenity Blue has so much going for it. The red sheen, the blue that shades in the right pen but also is very saturated out of others, not to mention that it plays well with sacced pens. I say give it a try, it might surprise you.  Regarding Lamy blue, I only have a few cartridges from pens that I have bought, but it’s almost a blurple already. 

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You and @USG convinced me to give it another fair try. I have it now in a Parker 45 (figured it would be a good match, I didn't want to try it in a Japanese EF), along with 7 other blue/royal blue inks. I'll bring all that to work and see if I die of boredom during meetings  

 

Regarding Lamy blue, there seems to be a lot of batch variation, but it always looked a bit more blurple (than the Waterman) to me too.

 

Do you happen to know if bottled Visconti blue is eradicable? The cartridge version is (and very disappointing), but I heard they are of different formulations.

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/15/2024 at 9:18 AM, USG said:

Nope.  😀  My sugarcane paper is in the form of spiral notebooks.  About a year or so ago, I found an unopened bag of notebooks I bought at Staples something like 15 years ago.  In it was 2 of these B5 sugarcane notebooks.

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When you opened that bag did a rainbow pop out? 🤣

What a fun find!

 

Congrats on your new FPR EFUF nibs! I find them to be a bit finicky in the FPR Himalaya + ebonite feed combo, even after heat setting, but I also fully disassemble my pens when I give them thorough cleanings and the time and inky fingers spent on re-alignment is my fault in that regard. Regardless, I am looking forward to seeing more of your samples with flexy goodness included!

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/15/2024 at 12:00 PM, Lithium466 said:

Do you happen to know if bottled Visconti blue is eradicable? The cartridge version is (and very disappointing), but I heard they are of different formulations.

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Please pardon my intrusion on your conversation. I am also interested in Visconti Blue and I, too, find the cartridges disappointing, which I purchased in lieu of a sample vial. The bottled blue looks beautifully vibrant by my eye but the cartridges should be labeled as "Pastel Lilac", IMO.

 

I can no longer find the top-heavy inkwell style that Visconti used to use, so my ongoing question with Visconti Blue (VB) is: did they change anything about the ink when they switched from their top-heavy inkwells to their current inkwells? I'm guessing that the answer is "no" but I am not sure.

 

VittaR posted a video where she compares the cartridge vs bottled VB, which includes her analysis of the two inks' permanence, but the video was posted before the inkwell change. Her analysis of the bottled ink can be found here:

 

 

Similarly, An Ink Guy does resistance tests and he had the same results.

But he, too, got his ink during the old inkwell era and can't answer my question.

 

Lastly, the ink swatches found at InkSwatch.com include a water resistance test on the lower half, as seen here:

 

They all have the same results: Visconti Blue (bottled) has minor water resistance. It'll smear if you run a highlighter over it but it is possible that text could still be read if you spill a glass of water across the page.

[USG]

@Lithium466 and @AmericanMonk  I don't have any information about modern Visconti ink.  I only have this vintage Visconti that I don't use.

 

 

[USG]

To Recap:

I've been working on my Ultra Flex nib project.

• The nibs:  3 FPR #6 Chrome/gold EF Ultra Flex Nibs
• Pen Bodies: 2 Jinhao 9016s

 

 

 

 

With both pens assembled I did some writing.  Both nibs were very smooth.  Flex 1 was very similar in feel to my Pilot 743 FA.  Flex 2 was softer and much wetter with a wider line width, that with normal writing pressure could exceed the line width of a Pilot 743 SFM (not shown).

 

[The 743 below is a Pilot 743 FA]

 

Not satisfied with the heavy flow and wide like width, I scissored the tines, pushing down and across, first one side and then the other and checked the result.  I was making some progress.  I repeated the procedure multiple times checking flow and line with each time and realigning the tines as needed.  I finished the next day.  These are the results.

 

Flex 2 has become an EEF relative to Flex 1 and the copious flow has been contained.

 

 

When I started, Flex 1 was the finer of the two nibs and now Flex 2 is clearly much finer than Flex 1, with the added bonus, that being the softer of the two nibs, it adds some line width flair to normal writing.

 

Neither of these nibs are like regular nibs.  They require a much lighter hand, as any pressure begins to spread the tines and flex the nibs.  In that regard, Flex 2 is more sensitive than Flex 1 and requires an even lighter hand.

 

This was a fun project. 😀👍

[Lithium466]

 

  On 11/13/2024 at 3:51 AM, USG said:

OK, now what have you done to the Lamy ink?  You added a few drops of Bilberry?  Sound interesting.  What color was the sheen?

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Lamy blue + a few drops of Diamine Bilberry (got my Bilberry in an eyedropper for that very reason, I find Bilberry on its own very pretty but unusable, dries out and smears). Bluer than pure Bilberry, less prone to dry out, still the same golden sheen. And much more interesting than just Lamy blue of course.

 

  On 11/14/2024 at 4:45 AM, Penguincollector said:

  I was given a Kokuyo Campus notebook at my pen club meeting on Sunday. It doesn’t do so well with large nibs, there’s some bleed through, but they look good on the page. All shimmer inks today.
 

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🤩

 

  On 11/14/2024 at 5:11 PM, Penguincollector said:

@USG, I’ll take some closeup pictures tonight.
 

 I had a cartridge of the Platinum BB that had a hairline crack and the ink oxidized. It looked the same as your picture. If it’s in a bottle and you like the color, you can still use it with dip pens, but the precipitates in the cartridge ink kept clogging my pen and that’s what led to me finding the crack. I was really disappointed in the color at first, but I am now using a fresh cartridge in my BelAge UEF and it’s been much better and is definitely bluer.

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Platinum Blue Black, the unsung hero or underrated inks. Some IG properties, I'm probably not understanding chemistry behind right, but I think no gallic acid in the formula so less darkening. Probably very low in tannin and so doesn't need as much acid in there, pH hovering around 2.5-3 which is pretty similar to standard royal blues like Waterman blue, and yet with some added water resistance (if you let it dry long enough). Extended shelf life compared to other IG inks (maybe not the KWZ), some sheen if you apply it heavily enough, and better lubrication than most IG inks.

Yet I find the colour in my EF nibs to be absolutely boring, and life is too short for bad paper anyway, so why bother?

 

 

  On 11/15/2024 at 6:11 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

Please pardon my intrusion on your conversation. I am also interested in Visconti Blue and I, too, find the cartridges disappointing, which I purchased in lieu of a sample vial. The bottled blue looks beautifully vibrant by my eye but the cartridges should be labeled as "Pastel Lilac", IMO.

 

I can no longer find the top-heavy inkwell style that Visconti used to use, so my ongoing question with Visconti Blue (VB) is: did they change anything about the ink when they switched from their top-heavy inkwells to their current inkwells? I'm guessing that the answer is "no" but I am not sure.

 

VittaR posted a video where she compares the cartridge vs bottled VB, which includes her analysis of the two inks' permanence, but the video was posted before the inkwell change. Her analysis of the bottled ink can be found here:

 

 

Similarly, An Ink Guy does resistance tests and he had the same results.

But he, too, got his ink during the old inkwell era and can't answer my question.

 

Lastly, the ink swatches found at InkSwatch.com include a water resistance test on the lower half, as seen here:

 

They all have the same results: Visconti Blue (bottled) has minor water resistance. It'll smear if you run a highlighter over it but it is possible that text could still be read if you spill a glass of water across the page.

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That would point out to two different inks...only one way to make sure Visconti blue has been on my "buy" list for a while, but typically not available in the stores I usually shop to, or too expensive for what I fear will disappoint me. One day

[Lithium466]

  On 11/19/2024 at 6:21 PM, USG said:

To Recap:

I've been working on my Ultra Flex nib project.

• The nibs:  3 FPR #6 Chrome/gold EF Ultra Flex Nibs
• Pen Bodies: 2 Jinhao 9016s

 

Flex 2 has become an EEF relative to Flex 1 and the copious flow has been contained.

 

When I started, Flex 1 was the finer of the two nibs and now Flex 2 is clearly much finer than Flex 1, with the added bonus, that being the softer of the two nibs, it adds some line width flair to normal writing.

 

Neither of these nibs are like regular nibs.  They require a much lighter hand, as any pressure begins to spread the tines and flex the nibs.  In that regard, Flex 2 is more sensitive than Flex 1 and requires an even lighter hand.

 

This was a fun project. 😀👍

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This is very inspiring 👍
Added to my list for future purchases

[Lithium466]

  On 11/12/2024 at 4:48 PM, Penguincollector said:

 @USG, you should try Colorverse’s Fountain Pen Day ink for this year, it’s a really vibrant blue. I can send you a sample if you’d like, but if you prefer to buy a bottle, it’s still for sale at Vanness. 
 

Colorverse 2024 FPD blue

 

@Lithium466, I understand that weird association with certain inks- but Waterman Florida Serenity Blue has so much going for it. The red sheen, the blue that shades in the right pen but also is very saturated out of others, not to mention that it plays well with sacced pens. I say give it a try, it might surprise you.  Regarding Lamy blue, I only have a few cartridges from pens that I have bought, but it’s almost a blurple already. 

 

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That Colorverse looks so pretty and tempting!

I did a terrible comparison of royal blue inks:



Waterman blue is more saturated than R&K Königsblau (which surprised me), but less lubricated. GvFC Lapis Lazuli is less saturated and quite boring in comparison, Diamine Imperial blue seems so saturated in comparison! Thunderbolt starts the most vibrant, and practically doesn't sheen.

Then to compete with Waterman blue you have Taccia Ao...more saturated, more sheen, less fading...like a better, more modern equivalent (I'll probably get s*** for saying that). Then with a pH of ~7.2 it's in the neutral zone, and don't know how well it would play with vintage pens. Taccia Ruri is a different colour, a lot of sheen, and as you can see can smear if you're not careful.

(The Waterman and R&K can be fully erased/eradicated, GvFC leaves a pink trace, Diamine Thunderbolt a turquoise line, Diamine Imperial blue is practically unbothered, and the other two completely unfazed)

 

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:16 AM, Lithium466 said:

 

That Colorverse looks so pretty and tempting!

I did a terrible comparison of royal blue inks:



Waterman blue is more saturated than R&K Königsblau (which surprised me), but less lubricated. GvFC Lapis Lazuli is less saturated and quite boring in comparison, Diamine Imperial blue seems so saturated in comparison! Thunderbolt starts the most vibrant, and practically doesn't sheen.

Then to compete with Waterman blue you have Taccia Ao...more saturated, more sheen, less fading...like a better, more modern equivalent (I'll probably get s*** for saying that). Then with a pH of ~7.2 it's in the neutral zone, and don't know how well it would play with vintage pens. Taccia Ruri is a different colour, a lot of sheen, and as you can see can smear if you're not careful.

(The Waterman and R&K can be fully erased/eradicated, GvFC leaves a pink trace, Diamine Thunderbolt a turquoise line, Diamine Imperial blue is practically unbothered, and the other two completely unfazed)

 

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Very nice…. 👍👍😀

I have to review it later on a larger screen…

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/20/2024 at 9:47 AM, Lithium466 said:

That would point out to two different inks...only one way to make sure Visconti blue has been on my "buy" list for a while, but typically not available in the stores I usually shop to, or too expensive for what I fear will disappoint me. One day

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1000% this. I recently took it off of my Black Friday wishlist... again! I just can't justify a full bottle of a mystery ink when it costs that much, especially when I have numerous inks that are already in that segment of the color spectrum. I was hoping the cartridges would function as a sample but... lesson learned.

 

 

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:16 AM, Lithium466 said:

I did a terrible comparison of royal blue inks:
...
Waterman blue is more saturated than R&K Königsblau (which surprised me), but less lubricated. GvFC Lapis Lazuli is less saturated and quite boring in comparison, Diamine Imperial blue seems so saturated in comparison! Thunderbolt starts the most vibrant, and practically doesn't sheen.

Then to compete with Waterman blue you have Taccia Ao...more saturated, more sheen, less fading...like a better, more modern equivalent (I'll probably get s*** for saying that).

Expand  

 

I think that's a helpful comparison! and your judgement of Waterman vs Ao is spot on. I'd parrot your remarks. But I'd also add that Ao got sticky with age and its sheen was prone to smearing for me. As much as I prefer Ao's appearance, Waterman behaves better. There are numerous sheening blues that I'd choose before Ao, but I should also admit that I only tried Ao in one or two pens last year'ish.

 

I appreciate your comparison with Konigsblau, too. Serenity Blue is nice but a tad undersaturated for my taste. Konigsblau has caught my attention on several occasions but if it is even less saturated then I'm happy to leave it on the shelf for one of its many fans. Thanks!

[inkstainedruth]

You might look into getting a sample.  A lot of the mail-order vendors have samples as well as full bottles of the inks they sell.  And a sample would get you an idea of whether it would be worth getting a full bottle or not, without you being out a lot of money (just a few bucks for two to four ml).

And then if you DO like the ink and get a full bottle of it?  Sample vials are GREAT for travel purposes.

Additionally, if there's a pen club near you, someone might have a bottle for you to try.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:14 PM, inkstainedruth said:

You might look into getting a sample.  A lot of the mail-order vendors have samples as well as full bottles of the inks they sell.  And a sample would get you an idea of whether it would be worth getting a full bottle or not, without you being out a lot of money (just a few bucks for two to four ml).

And then if you DO like the ink and get a full bottle of it?  Sample vials are GREAT for travel purposes.

Additionally, if there's a pen club near you, someone might have a bottle for you to try.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

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I'm convinced that "buy samples" is the best advice that we in the community can provide for each other! It is advice that I wish I heeded back when I was young and dumb.

 

Of my usual US vendors (Pen Chalet, Andersons, Vanness, and Goulet), only Anderson Pens offers a sample of Visconti Blue. The others either don't carry the brand or offer just the bottles and sell the cartridges in lieu of the vials. I'll check Anderson's sales come Black Friday/Cyber Monday but don't currently have a wishlist with them that is long enough to reach the free shipping (and the penny-pincher in me does not wish to pay shipping for one sample).

 

Truth be told, my collection is beyond complete (and I love it!) so I am really minimizing new purchases... but you know how it is when inky temptation hits! Perhaps next year Andersons will have more of what I want and I can toss a sample into my cart. That would be nice. Otherwise, if you know (off of the top of your head; please don't go out of your way) of any US vendor who carries both a Visconti sample and Troublemaker inks, please let me know!

 

Sadly, no pen club near me. There used to be but it was never popular and it shut down prior to me realizing it existed. But the next time I am in Chicago I can visit Atlas and see what they have to say. I can't afford 90% of what they offer but I can afford to visit them and drool.

 

Thanks for the sage advice! I appreciate it 😊

[USG]

So many things to respond to but first I wanted to see if I could color correct LTM's ink comparison...

 

LTM's comments:

Waterman blue is more saturated than R&K Königsblau (which surprised me), but less lubricated. GvFC Lapis Lazuli is less saturated and quite boring in comparison, Diamine Imperial blue seems so saturated in comparison! Thunderbolt starts the most vibrant, and practically doesn't sheen.

Then to compete with Waterman blue you have Taccia Ao...more saturated, more sheen, less fading...like a better, more modern equivalent (I'll probably get s*** for saying that). Then with a pH of ~7.2 it's in the neutral zone, and don't know how well it would play with vintage pens. Taccia Ruri is a different colour, a lot of sheen, and as you can see can smear if you're not careful.

(The Waterman and R&K can be fully erased/eradicated, GvFC leaves a pink trace, Diamine Thunderbolt a turquoise line, Diamine Imperial blue is practically unbothered, and the other two completely unfazed)

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 9:47 AM, Lithium466 said:

 

  On 11/13/2024 at 3:51 AM, USG said:

OK, now what have you done to the Lamy ink?  You added a few drops of Bilberry?  Sound interesting.  What color was the sheen?

Expand  

 

Lamy blue + a few drops of Diamine Bilberry (got my Bilberry in an eyedropper for that very reason, I find Bilberry on its own very pretty but unusable, dries out and smears). Bluer than pure Bilberry, less prone to dry out, still the same golden sheen. And much more interesting than just Lamy blue of course.

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I'll have to try that.  Sounds like a way to boost the blue color in pale inks...👍😀  The sheen is nice but Bilberry by itself just looks black.

 

 

 

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 9:47 AM, Lithium466 said:

  On 11/14/2024 at 4:45 AM, Penguincollector said:

  I was given a Kokuyo Campus notebook at my pen club meeting on Sunday. It doesn’t do so well with large nibs, there’s some bleed through, but they look good on the page. All shimmer inks today.
 

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@Penguincollector I have a Kokuyo Campus notebook somewhere, I'll do a test too. 😀👍

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 9:47 AM, Lithium466 said:

  On 11/14/2024 at 5:11 PM, Penguincollector said:

@USG, I’ll take some closeup pictures tonight.
 

 I had a cartridge of the Platinum BB that had a hairline crack and the ink oxidized. It looked the same as your picture. If it’s in a bottle and you like the color, you can still use it with dip pens, but the precipitates in the cartridge ink kept clogging my pen and that’s what led to me finding the crack. I was really disappointed in the color at first, but I am now using a fresh cartridge in my BelAge UEF and it’s been much better and is definitely bluer.

Expand  

 

Platinum Blue Black, the unsung hero or underrated inks. Some IG properties, I'm probably not understanding chemistry behind right, but I think no gallic acid in the formula so less darkening. Probably very low in tannin and so doesn't need as much acid in there, pH hovering around 2.5-3 which is pretty similar to standard royal blues like Waterman blue, and yet with some added water resistance (if you let it dry long enough). Extended shelf life compared to other IG inks (maybe not the KWZ), some sheen if you apply it heavily enough, and better lubrication than most IG inks.

Yet I find the colour in my EF nibs to be absolutely boring, and life is too short for bad paper anyway, so why bother?

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@Penguincollector BelAge UEF <---👍  I think my Platinum BB is shot.  It's no where near the blue I remember.

 

@Lithium466  I hear you... OK, hold off on the bottle. Tthis calls for a sample to see how it works in my pens..  What I remember was a very blue blue-back....  LOL, of course, what I remember...🤪

 

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:16 AM, Lithium466 said:

  On 11/12/2024 at 4:48 PM, Penguincollector said:

 @USG, you should try Colorverse’s Fountain Pen Day ink for this year, it’s a really vibrant blue. I can send you a sample if you’d like, but if you prefer to buy a bottle, it’s still for sale at Vanness. 
 

Colorverse 2024 FPD blue

 

@Lithium466, I understand that weird association with certain inks- but Waterman Florida Serenity Blue has so much going for it. The red sheen, the blue that shades in the right pen but also is very saturated out of others, not to mention that it plays well with sacced pens. I say give it a try, it might surprise you.  Regarding Lamy blue, I only have a few cartridges from pens that I have bought, but it’s almost a blurple already. 

 

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That Colorverse looks so pretty and tempting!

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@Penguincollector Taking your advice... Looks really good.  Sample in cart...

 

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:00 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

1000% this. I recently took it off of my Black Friday wishlist... again! I just can't justify a full bottle of a mystery ink when it costs that much, especially when I have numerous inks that are already in that segment of the color spectrum. I was hoping the cartridges would function as a sample but... lesson learned.

 

 

 

I think that's a helpful comparison! and your judgement of Waterman vs Ao is spot on. I'd parrot your remarks. But I'd also add that Ao got sticky with age and its sheen was prone to smearing for me. As much as I prefer Ao's appearance, Waterman behaves better. There are numerous sheening blues that I'd choose before Ao, but I should also admit that I only tried Ao in one or two pens last year'ish.

 

I appreciate your comparison with Konigsblau, too. Serenity Blue is nice but a tad undersaturated for my taste. Konigsblau has caught my attention on several occasions but if it is even less saturated then I'm happy to leave it on the shelf for one of its many fans. Thanks!

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I don't see the attraction to Visconti.  Good to know Ao has a sticky problem.  A few of LIthium's inks caught my eye.  Konigsblau has some interesting undertones.  Thunderbolt looked interesting too and of course the Tacci inks...

 

Btw, do have Nitrogen?  If you do does yours smear when dry?  I have a sample and it does not.  Just curious.

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:14 PM, inkstainedruth said:

You might look into getting a sample.  A lot of the mail-order vendors have samples as well as full bottles of the inks they sell.  And a sample would get you an idea of whether it would be worth getting a full bottle or not, without you being out a lot of money (just a few bucks for two to four ml).

And then if you DO like the ink and get a full bottle of it?  Sample vials are GREAT for travel purposes.

Additionally, if there's a pen club near you, someone might have a bottle for you to try.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

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AS usual Good Advice 👍😀