Some Ink Tests

[USG]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:48 AM, Lithium466 said:

Doyou. What to do with it? It's a more complex Sailor black, that doesn't dry as fast...also much more expensive. Maybe in a very dry pen? It's supposed to clean but I don't have enough left to try in my Pelikan. It flows well though...

 

I thought a dark brown ink might be interesting so I got a bottle instead of a sample.  Now, besides trying to remove the stains in my Omas Demonstrator, I don't know what to do with it....  maybe it will grow on me. 🙄

 

[USG]

In keeping with my original premise of looking for "Outlining" inks, I bought a bunch of notebooks to check out the paper and see if there were any interesting results.

 

What I was looking for were thin notebooks similar to a B5 30 page Tomoe River notebook I got from JetPens last year.  I wanted a notebook where I could fold back the page under the notebook and get out of the way while I was writing.  To that end the spiral and wired notebooks were the best.

 

Left to right:  B5

• Sugar Cane Paper ( very light grey paper)
• LIFE Notebook (yellow paper)
• Kokuyo Campus (I want to say it's white)
• Apica Notebook (2nd to Stalogy for muting the ink color)
• Stalogy Notebook (this paper sucks the life out of ink colors)
• Mnemosyne (turned out to have the same paper as the Maruman A5 - not bad if you like the greenish cream color paper)

------------------------------------------------------------

Left to right:  A5

• Maruman Spiral (a greenish cream paper)
• Iroful Notebook (they call it white but it's cream)
• Tomoe River Notebook (white)

 

It was a complete bust.  They all feathered to a greater or lesser extent with Edelstein, Iroshizuku and Sailor inks (and some Diamine).   Tomoe River & Iroful were the only two that didn't and of those two Iroful was the only one capable of showing a range of shading, sheen, and "Outlining" that was not observable on the other papers.

 

So what I'm left with, in terms of high contrast paper is the same Cosmo Snow (the best) and Iroful (second best) I started with.  But since Cosmo Air Paper has been discontinued we'd better get to know Iroful better. Also I read somewhere that there was a "white" version of Iroful, but I've never been able to find it.

 

In terms of available 52gsm paper, Tomoe River S is the best, followed by Kokuyo Thin (close) and View Corona (more tooth), each with their own characteristics.

 

Some Examples:

 

 

 

You get the idea.....

YMMV, and my opinion can change overnight.

 

 

 

[Misfit]

That’s very unfortunate. You’d think one would not feather. 

[USG]

10 hours ago, Misfit said:

That’s very unfortunate. You’d think one would not feather. 

 

The Iroful notebook and the Tomoe River notebook did not feather.  😀👍

[Lithium466]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:11 PM, USG said:

Here's an update on the Bilberry ink.  I put some in a dry writing M Jinhao X-159 and there was no sheen, or outline, so it's exactly what you found.  Apparently there has to be a sufficient amount of ink released from the nib before it will do any 'tricks' on the paper.

 

I switched out the dry Medium nib for a wet fine and the 'outlining' was back.  No heavy sheen like with the wet M nib in the 9019, just 'outline'.

So I managed to get Bilberry to sheen on Oxford Optik, and of course on Iroful. Due to the thin nib I didn't quite get the outline effect, but it's definitely almost there on most letters, and it's there on letters like a or e that "collapsed" with too much ink in the middle.
Sheen is impressive, full success!

 

As I was writing more work notes on Iroful, I used a pen inked with (regular) Sailor blue, and got a ton of sheen and some outlining effect on some letters. It's discreet, but it's there.

I couldn't believe that boring Sailor blue, which I'm blaming myself for buying a bottle and forcing myself to use (usually without even finishing the fill), that is usually so dull and chalky looking, became interesting on Iroful.

 

Edit: Bilberry dry out ; yes very noticeable with many pens. With the wet Pilot Falcon, not so much, and usually just one stroke was enough to make it start again. But definitely not an ink you want for note taking, or for when you spend the whole lecture writing without interruption. 

Sailor Blue dry out: also yes, and very annoying for a "basic" ink. While the ink was a food match to a Sailor 1911S for flow and lubrication, the dry out was noticeable.

 

That's raising a question - Sailor feeds are "short" (I think I read somewhere the ideal length between ink reservoir and nib was 26mm - I didn't measure but they are shorter than Platinum or Lamy feeds for ex). Is that a factor in drying out faster? It's a factor in starting faster (from dry feed with a cartridge inserted).

[Lithium466]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:48 PM, USG said:

 

I thought a dark brown ink might be interesting so I got a bottle instead of a sample.  Now, besides trying to remove the stains in my Omas Demonstrator, I don't know what to do with it....  maybe it will grow on me. 🙄

 

I hope it does! I'll try it in a very dry EF Pilot to see if it looks grey/brown. If not, I accepted it as a nice flowy and lubricated warm black

[Lithium466]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:00 PM, USG said:

It was a complete bust.  They all feathered to a greater or lesser extent with Edelstein, Iroshizuku and Sailor inks (and some Diamine).   Tomoe River & Iroful were the only two that didn't and of those two Iroful was the only one capable of showing a range of shading, sheen, and "Outlining" that was not observable on the other papers.

Some Examples:

 

 

 

You get the idea.....

YMMV, and my opinion can change overnight.

I'm shocked Maruman paper feathered like that 😕 I have a pad that I haven't tried yet, this is so disappointing.

 

I'm also very disappointed with Kokuyo campus and Apica, they usually get good reviews. Really sorry you didn't find a replacement for Cosmo snow.

[USG]

12 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

So I managed to get Bilberry to sheen on Oxford Optik, and of course on Iroful. Due to the thin nib I didn't quite get the outline effect, but it's definitely almost there on most letters, and it's there on letters like a or e that "collapsed" with too much ink in the middle.
Sheen is impressive, full success!

 

As I was writing more work notes on Iroful, I used a pen inked with (regular) Sailor blue, and got a ton of sheen and some outlining effect on some letters. It's discreet, but it's there.

I couldn't believe that boring Sailor blue, which I'm blaming myself for buying a bottle and forcing myself to use (usually without even finishing the fill), that is usually so dull and chalky looking, became interesting on Iroful.

 

Edit: Bilberry dry out ; yes very noticeable with many pens. With the wet Pilot Falcon, not so much, and usually just one stroke was enough to make it start again. But definitely not an ink you want for note taking, or for when you spend the whole lecture writing without interruption. 

Sailor Blue dry out: also yes, and very annoying for a "basic" ink. While the ink was a food match to a Sailor 1911S for flow and lubrication, the dry out was noticeable.

 

That's raising a question - Sailor feeds are "short" (I think I read somewhere the ideal length between ink reservoir and nib was 26mm - I didn't measure but they are shorter than Platinum or Lamy feeds for ex). Is that a factor in drying out faster? It's a factor in starting faster (from dry feed with a cartridge inserted).

 

I never used Oxford Optik paper so I can't comment on that, but I'm glad Bilberry is starting to do some tricks for you.😃👍 

 

OTOH, Bilberry is turning out to be a problem ink.  The dry-out is annoying.  I was taking notes on an online a US history seminar with a Jinhao X159 (M) and Bilberry ink.  It dried out and hard started so many times I had to put the pen away and take out a Pelikan M800 (F) (Edelstein Sapphire ink) to finish the program.  No dry-outs no hard starts, just smooth sailing every time I had something to write... Pelikans are great work horse pens.

 

I never dealt with Sailor Blue but I'm not sure you should blame the pen, unless it dries out with a lot of other inks.   'Blue' might just be a fast drying ink like Bilberry.

 

Surprising discoveries that many different inks do all kinds of interesting tricks on Iroful and Cosmo paper has been a lot of fun.... too bad the effect is limited to those 2 papers... although I saw some vague outlining on View Corona the other day.

 

 

[USG]

12 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

I hope it does! I'll try it in a very dry EF Pilot to see if it looks grey/brown. If not, I accepted it as a nice flowy and lubricated warm black

 

All I can say is that it was not promising in reverse writing. 🙁

[USG]

12 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

I'm shocked Maruman paper feathered like that 😕 I have a pad that I haven't tried yet, this is so disappointing.

 

I'm also very disappointed with Kokuyo campus and Apica, they usually get good reviews. Really sorry you didn't find a replacement for Cosmo snow.

 

I'm starting to think a lot of those "good reviews" are bogus.  I'm sure there's a lot of inks that don't feather on those papers, but unfortunately the main inks I'm using right now do.

[Lithium466]

Drying out on the nib has to be the most annoying thing with super saturated / sheening  inks

 

Did you try Regalia and Yu-Sari papers? They seem like good candidates for outlining inks.

[Lithium466]

23 hours ago, USG said:

 

All I can say is that it was not promising in reverse writing. 🙁

Yup same here. I want to try the Sailor ink studio 023/024/027 to compare.

[USG]

7 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

Drying out on the nib has to be the most annoying thing with super saturated / sheening  inks

 

Did you try Regalia and Yu-Sari papers? They seem like good candidates for outlining inks.

 

I never tried Regalia or Yu-Sari paper.  What is it like?  Are they thin or heavy papers? 

[Oh heck, I looked it up, Regalia is 80gsm, and Yu-Sari is 95gsm.]

 

Meanwhile it turns out that I'm easily distracted.  I'm not sure when it happened, but somehow Tyrian Purple got in my sights.  I don't remember where it came from but I looked it up and there went the rest of the day.  The Wiki showed three versions of the color.

 

 

And I was off and running trying to find matching inks.  Diamine makes a Tyrian Purple which didn't appeal to me, so I kept looking.  I didn't care for the Mauve version on top but the middle and bottom look very interesting.  So I was thinking, I have some purple inks, but none of them hit the spot so then I thought, maybe, dilute versions of Sailor Shiguire or Bilberry could work...

 

So I tried 4 eye dropper drops of Bilberry to 3 syringe drops of water and it was too light.  Then I added another eye dropper drop of Bilberry but it was still too light, so sucked the whole thing up into a converter that was about 1/2 full of Bilberry and added 7 more syringe drops of water...  I know, not very scientific, or repeatable, but that's where I am.  It didn't help the dry out very much but the shading increased to the point where I could actually see some lighter blue ink and of course, sheening decreased  because the ink wasn't as concentrated but it was not gone.  The good news is that it pops off the page with a bluish cast rather than the almost back it used to have.  The bad news is that under normal light it looks a lot like Asa-Gao except for one thing.  Tilt the page and Asa-Gao sheens pink and the diluted Bilberry sheens gold.

 

So total failure there and the search continues for Trian Purple ink.

 

[USG]

8 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

Yup same here. I want to try the Sailor ink studio 023/024/027 to compare.

 

Looks promising....  not as lifeless as Doyou... Penguincollector had a better word for it but I don't remember what it was...

[USG]

Black Looking Inks:  (Cosmo Snow 75gsm)

 

 

[Lithium466]

2 hours ago, USG said:

 

I never tried Regalia or Yu-Sari paper.  What is it like?  Are they thin or heavy papers? 

[Oh heck, I looked it up, Regalia is 80gsm, and Yu-Sari is 95gsm.]

 

I haven't tried them either, just been looking for papers and these two came up as papers I need to try! I'm pretty sold on Iroful at the moment, which is also the only one I can easily find here at this time.

 

2 hours ago, USG said:

So total failure there and the search continues for Trian Purple ink.

 

What about Diamine Purple Bow?

It's hard to find the right shade of purple that won't appear black. You need dryer nibs^^

 

Other than that, that sounds interesting for Bilberry. Too bad the drying up didn't improve much, but the blue part. Maybe you'd like Diamine Mystique? It's a touch bluer than Bilberry, less saturated so doesn't dry out as much, and well gold shimmer.

Winter Miracle was gorgeous too (and prone to dry out and looking black), gave my bottle to @Penguincollector, I'm curious to see what she thinks about it.

 

I would never thought Quink would sheen. These old versions with Solv-x are much more interesting looking than the 90's/2000's versions it seems.

[USG]

9 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

 

I haven't tried them either, just been looking for papers and these two came up as papers I need to try! I'm pretty sold on Iroful at the moment, which is also the only one I can easily find here at this time.

 

What about Diamine Purple Bow?

It's hard to find the right shade of purple that won't appear black. You need dryer nibs^^

 

Other than that, that sounds interesting for Bilberry. Too bad the drying up didn't improve much, but the blue part. Maybe you'd like Diamine Mystique? It's a touch bluer than Bilberry, less saturated so doesn't dry out as much, and well gold shimmer.

Winter Miracle was gorgeous too (and prone to dry out and looking black), gave my bottle to @Penguincollector, I'm curious to see what she thinks about it.

 

I would never thought Quink would sheen. These old versions with Solv-x are much more interesting looking than the 90's/2000's versions it seems.

 

Those are great inks you picked out, btw. 

 

Good point on the purple inks looking black... but I usually adjust my test Jinhao's to be wet for maximum inky tricks, (if they didn't come that way)

 

I'm not sure why the Old Quink Sheens like that.  Evaporation?

 

 

 

[Lithium466]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:48 PM, USG said:

 

I thought a dark brown ink might be interesting so I got a bottle instead of a sample.  Now, besides trying to remove the stains in my Omas Demonstrator, I don't know what to do with it....  maybe it will grow on me. 🙄

 

I have now compared Doyou and regular Sailor black side by side...and Doyou ruined Sailor black for me.

 

Sailor black is one of my staple inks, trusty black with excellent lubrication, good behavior and generally neutral...now compared to Doyou I find it too cold, not dark enough, not flowy enough 😱 What is happening?!

 

Oh, Sailor black sheens black on Iroful.

[Penguincollector]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:59 AM, Lithium466 said:

 

I haven't tried them either, just been looking for papers and these two came up as papers I need to try! I'm pretty sold on Iroful at the moment, which is also the only one I can easily find here at this time.

 

What about Diamine Purple Bow?

It's hard to find the right shade of purple that won't appear black. You need dryer nibs^^

 

Other than that, that sounds interesting for Bilberry. Too bad the drying up didn't improve much, but the blue part. Maybe you'd like Diamine Mystique? It's a touch bluer than Bilberry, less saturated so doesn't dry out as much, and well gold shimmer.

Winter Miracle was gorgeous too (and prone to dry out and looking black), gave my bottle to @Penguincollector, I'm curious to see what she thinks about it.

 

I would never thought Quink would sheen. These old versions with Solv-x are much more interesting looking than the 90's/2000's versions it seems.

  Winter Miracle and all of its friends are under the Xmas Tree, so we’ll have to be patient. I am looking forward to trying the whole spectrum of inks that you sent. 

[Lithium466]

15 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

  Winter Miracle and all of its friends are under the Xmas Tree, so we’ll have to be patient. I am looking forward to trying the whole spectrum of inks that you sent. 

😊