Some Ink Tests

[USG]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:16 AM, Lithium466 said:

I'm just curious to see if Diamine Bilberry creates an outline for you. It doesn't for me, as I probably should try thicker nibs, but I have high hopes with Iroful paper (that I have to go get at the Amazon relay now, since I missed the delivery yesterday- it must be precious paper that they didn't want to leave it at my door as they usually do).

 

Cool experiment with the Mrs Stewart! I think...I think I will soon have some laundry to whiten...or something like that  

 

I just got my Bilburry tonight.  It took longer than usual.  Here are the preliminary results.

 

Diamine Bilburry

(M) Jinhao nib in a Dip pen.

Cosmo Snow paper

 

 

 

[Lithium466]

Lovely sheen!

I don't get all that...too fine, too dry, too little ink.

[USG]

13 minutes ago, Lithium466 said:

Lovely sheen!

I don't get all that...too fine, too dry, too little ink.

 

Maybe the wrong paper?  I only get these results on Cosmo Snow and Iroful.

I'll try it with a fine nib and see how it looks.

[Lithium466]

The best results were on Iroful (I don't have Cosmo snow), some sheen, but not much.

The only way for me to get a result like yours is to use a super sheener like OS Nitrogen, but I gave up on this one as it was too much hassle!

 

Bilberry seems to strike a good balance of sheen and "usability", it won't dry in an instant on the nib if you pause to think, it won't smudge everywhere if you don't live in a desert, etc. I'm still working on finding the perfect pen match...or maybe I'm just after my perfect pen. 

[USG]

43 minutes ago, Lithium466 said:

The best results were on Iroful (I don't have Cosmo snow), some sheen, but not much.

The only way for me to get a result like yours is to use a super sheener like OS Nitrogen, but I gave up on this one as it was too much hassle!

 

Bilberry seems to strike a good balance of sheen and "usability", it won't dry in an instant on the nib if you pause to think, it won't smudge everywhere if you don't live in a desert, etc. I'm still working on finding the perfect pen match...or maybe I'm just after my perfect pen. 

 

I tried Iroful.  The only thing that happened was that I lost the "outline" effect and only got sheen.

 

This is from a vintage Parker Duofold fine nib in a  dip pen, reverse writing.

 

You should get similar results.  How are you looking?

 

[USG]

5 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

Lovely sheen!

I don't get all that...too fine, too dry, too little ink.

 

Too dry, too little ink?  I don't understand.   I put it in a Jinhao 9019 (M) and the ink pours out of the pen.  Very thick wet line.  No shading.  There's so much flow I'm thinking of putting on a Fine nib.

[amberleadavis]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:07 PM, USG said:

OK, a couple of updates:

 

I was reading a thread about using Mrs. Stewart's Liquid Bluing for ink.  It's arriving tomorrow and I can't wait to check it out.  Crazy ! 🤪

 

Next:

I have an Omas 360 demonstrator that was stained by some blue or turquoise ink many years ago.  Many flushes with Rapido-Eze and the stain persists.  Filled it with R-E and left it for weeks.  Then numerous water fills and no progress.

 

 

Then I read a thread about being able to clean out stains with certain ink, but I can't find it again to give credit to the people who were in the thread (amberleadavis). 

 

 

 

Here are some threads about stains.

 

Cleaning or Not & Stain Removal
Inky T O D - Do You Ever Use Samples Because You're Feeling Lazy?
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/267347-inky-t-o-d-do-you-ever-use-samples-because-youre-feeling-lazy/
Inky T O D - Cleaning Between Inking - What's Your Process?
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/266313-inky-t-o-d-cleaning-between-inking-whats-your-process/
Inky T O D - How Long Does Any One Ink Stay In Your Pen?
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/269697-inky-t-o-d-how-long-does-any-one-ink-stay-in-your-pen/

Stain Removal

Operation Exterminate Bsb Stains

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/303281-operation-exterminate-bsb-stains/

Informal Review - Noodler's - American Eel - Rattler Red

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/258169-informal-review-noodlers-american-eel-rattler-red/

What's Your Cleaner Ink?

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/297645-whats-your-cleaner-ink/

 

[amberleadavis]

@USG

 

The ink that really did the heavy lifting was vintage Skrip Blue-Black.

 

 

 

[Lithium466]

6 hours ago, USG said:

 

Too dry, too little ink?  I don't understand.   I put it in a Jinhao 9019 (M) and the ink pours out of the pen.  Very thick wet line.  No shading.  There's so much flow I'm thinking of putting on a Fine nib.

My pens, not the ink.

[langere]

 

17 hours ago, USG said:

CluelessMe has almost all of my pens inked. It’s a hobby, right? I Never know what pen I want to write with or with what ink or on which paper.

 

Aside from enjoying writing with a variety of my pens, my latest kick is to compare the performance of pens, inks and paper.

 

Let me give you an example.  A while ago I was writing with a KOP filled with Sailor Nioi-Sumire.  As I was writing I noticed that the color and behavior of Nioi-Sumire was very similar to what I remembered Damine Sargasso Sea looked like (on Cosmo Snow paper) and I wanted to compare them.  I could have cleaned out the KOP or another pen and filled it with Sargasso for the comparison but luckily I  had a pen filled with Sargasso, so the comparison was easy.  But wait, those inks look a lot like Diamine Majestic Blue, so now I wanted to compare that too.  I could have cleaned or inked a third pen, but I had one (Jinhao X-159) already filled with Majestic.... but while I was writing with Majestic I was thinking that if memory serves, DC Supershow Blue (Wing Sung 699) and American Blue (Lamy 2K) are also a dark blue inks.... how do they match up?  And you have it. It's a hobby.

 

I'll give you another example.  I just changed the ink in a Waterman Boucheron to re-hydrated vintage J Herbin Cafe Des Iles and I was curious how that compared to some of the other browns I had.  A Parker 45 had Penman Mocha, a PenBBS had Diamine Macassar, an Omas Paragon had Omas Sepia and a Pelikan M1000 had Pelikan 4001 Brillant Braun.

 

During my ongoing "Shading" investigations I found that I only was able to replicate "Curious" shading with certain pens and certain inks and on certain paper.  Sailor Manyo Nadeshiko is a nice shading ink from a Pilot Art Flower pen and a Waterman Patrician but not so much from others, which amounted to needing trick pens, trick inks and trick paper to pull it off. 

 

(Mrs. Stewart's Laundry Bluing also shades well on Tomoe River, View Corona, Thin Kokuyo and Claire Fontaine stationary, but less so on Cosmo Snow and Iroful where the line is more homogeneous. I'm afraid to put it in another pen besides a unplated steel nibbed Jinhao X159)

 

And btw, how does that Sailor KOP nib compare with a Pelikan M1000 nib.  I could guess, or have both pens inked and ready to go.

 

About a year ago I bought a number of Jinhao 80s and equipped them with Lamy nibs in multiple widths and used them for my ink comparisons.  I soon realized that I didn't have enough consistency so I switched to Jinaho X159s as an inexpensive vehicle for my inks.

 

Thanks for the explanation, @USG!

 

Erick

[USG]

12 hours ago, amberleadavis said:

@USG

 

The ink that really did the heavy lifting was vintage Skrip Blue-Black.

 

 

 

 

Update:  I'm on my second fill of Parker Quink with Solv-X and I have Dojo on order.  I might have some Script Blue Black around but I'll have to look for it.

[USG]

20 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

My pens, not the ink.

 

Hi LTM

 

Here's an update on the Bilberry ink.  I put some in a dry writing M Jinhao X-159 and there was no sheen, or outline, so it's exactly what you found.  Apparently there has to be a sufficient amount of ink released from the nib before it will do any 'tricks' on the paper.

 

I switched out the dry Medium nib for a wet fine and the 'outlining' was back.  No heavy sheen like with the wet M nib in the 9019, just 'outline'.

[USG]

 

Today was a Jinhao marathon.  18 - X159s, 2 - 100s, 20 inks, 8 Notebooks and  lots of Cosmo Snow paper....  I'll try to go into more detail later.

 

But there was a problem.  When I got to the X159 with the vintage J Herbin Cafe Des Iles ink that I re-hydrated, the previously light tan ink had become very dark and seemed to refuse to dry completely.  Something was wrong and I suspected it was the beginning of the dread scourge of Mold.  It wasn't the end of the world if one of the X159s got contaminated but I also had that ink in my Waterman Boucheron.  Copious cleaning procedures for both pens.  Loaded some Sailor Sumire in the Boucheron hoping the phenol in the Sumire will kill off any lingering mold and Sailor DoYou, which I got to clean out the stains in my Omas 365 demonstrator, in the X159.

 

Now this Doyou is strange ink.  It doesn't sheen, shade, Outline or anything.  It's supposed to be dark brown but it looks flat black to me.   "Dirt", Sailor calls it.  I don't know what to call it.  Anyway now I'm on Mold patrol.

LIFE NOTEBOOK has yellow pages.

 

 

[Penguincollector]

Crossing my fingers that there’s no mold in your pens. 

[USG]

2 minutes ago, Penguincollector said:

Crossing my fingers that there’s no mold in your pens. 

 

Me too....  I really don't care about the X159, but the Boucheron... 

But I gave it a good clean out and have it filled with the phenol smelling Sailor Sumire ink.

 

Meanwhile, that Bilbetty is an outliner ink, so we can add it to the list... but it doesn't shade in the slightest.

 

My Omas Sepia ink is making that green outline again so I think that after the ink sits in the pen for a day or so, it concentrates enough to start making an outline.

 

The Doyou ink is a dud.  It's like flat back paint that absorbs all the light that hits it and reflects nothing.

[USG]

The other thing that occured was that my "tape" solution for cataloging the pens and inks stopped working when the pens became too numerous, so I ordered Avery stick on labels and wrote the name of the ink on the label and stuck it on the pen....  unfortunately the labels started to un-stick at the corners so I covered them with some clear tape.  Not the most elegant solution but it works.

 

 

[Penguincollector]

1 hour ago, USG said:

The other thing that occured was that my "tape" solution for cataloging the pens and inks stopped working when the pens became too numerous, so I ordered Avery stick on labels and wrote the name of the ink on the label and stuck it on the pen....  unfortunately the labels started to un-stick at the corners so I covered them with some clear tape.  Not the most elegant solution but it works.

 

 

  I really like that the Shikiori series comes with labels.  I use Avery labels for some jars and they always start lifting off the bamboo lids eventually. The Doyou reminds me of Vantablack paint.

[Lithium466]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:11 PM, USG said:

 

Hi LTM

 

Here's an update on the Bilberry ink.  I put some in a dry writing M Jinhao X-159 and there was no sheen, or outline, so it's exactly what you found.  Apparently there has to be a sufficient amount of ink released from the nib before it will do any 'tricks' on the paper.

 

I switched out the dry Medium nib for a wet fine and the 'outlining' was back.  No heavy sheen like with the wet M nib in the 9019, just 'outline'.

I had missed that post, my apologies!

I had put Bilberry in a Majohn A2 with a nib that I had "tuned" (big word for spreading the tines as much as I delicately managed) as wet as I could, and the result was really good. Nice flow and lubrication, nice dark colour, lovely!

 

But somehow that A2 kept drying up, so I accused the pen and put the nib unit into a A1 (that had Platinum blue black for a while, so long that it was kind of hard to clean, but it still wrote perfectly at first stroke so deemed "non drying A1"), thinking that would solve the problem.

One embarrassing meeting later, it's the "A2" nib unit that is the problem. Looks like the gap between casing and feed is larger than on my other unit, and that could be the reason that this nib unit dries faster than the other one?

I really like the Majohn A1 clipeless, but compared to the real deal, they are vastly inferior in the small details, fit and finish. You can get a steel nibbed Pilot Capless on Amazon for 2-3x the price of a A1/A2, and I'm starting to think it's worth it 😕

 

Anyway, back to Bilberry, I flushed it out of frustration and I'm now looking for a more suitable pen to try its outlining abilities. If it were water resistant I'd put it in my Pilot C 74 with a music nib, which is on address writing duties with Pilot blue most of the time.
My wettest writing pen is probably a Falcon SEF, and this one isn't a very pleasant writer. I'm thinking with Iroful that could be a good match. I do have thicker nibs but I'm in a phase where I'm uncomfortable writing with them, and none of them are particularly wet. Second wettest writing pen is my old Lamy Logo with a Z55 "EF" nib, if the Falcon doesn't cut it I'll try the Lamy.

Then I also have a Pelikan M400 EF, but it was already stained by Diamine Sapphire so I'm not sure I want to try Bilberry in there. Maybe I should stop buying white pens.

 

 

Digression apart (sorry), I really really really hope your pens don't get moldy. Maybe your Herbin is from the beginning of the 2010's when they had all these mold problems? I hope Sumire will keep your Waterman mold free. It's a lovely ink.

 

Speaking of Doyou, I have it at the moment in a Platinum EF. Well lubricated, to me too it looks like black, but not completely. Matte drying, I mean to compare it side by side with Sailor black but I'm yet to do that.

When I got the sample I thought it would be like PI Yama-Guri...absolutely not. 

[USG]

21 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

  I really like that the Shikiori series comes with labels.  I use Avery labels for some jars and they always start lifting off the bamboo lids eventually. The Doyou reminds me of Vantablack paint.

 

Vantablack... of course....  but what are we going to do with that ink? 

 

On another note have you experimented with the Bilberry yet?

 

17 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

I had missed that post, my apologies!

I had put Bilberry in a Majohn A2 with a nib that I had "tuned" (big word for spreading the tines as much as I delicately managed) as wet as I could, and the result was really good. Nice flow and lubrication, nice dark colour, lovely!

 

But somehow that A2 kept drying up, so I accused the pen and put the nib unit into a A1 (that had Platinum blue black for a while, so long that it was kind of hard to clean, but it still wrote perfectly at first stroke so deemed "non drying A1"), thinking that would solve the problem.

One embarrassing meeting later, it's the "A2" nib unit that is the problem. Looks like the gap between casing and feed is larger than on my other unit, and that could be the reason that this nib unit dries faster than the other one?

I really like the Majohn A1 clipeless, but compared to the real deal, they are vastly inferior in the small details, fit and finish. You can get a steel nibbed Pilot Capless on Amazon for 2-3x the price of a A1/A2, and I'm starting to think it's worth it 😕

 

Anyway, back to Bilberry, I flushed it out of frustration and I'm now looking for a more suitable pen to try its outlining abilities. If it were water resistant I'd put it in my Pilot C 74 with a music nib, which is on address writing duties with Pilot blue most of the time.
My wettest writing pen is probably a Falcon SEF, and this one isn't a very pleasant writer. I'm thinking with Iroful that could be a good match. I do have thicker nibs but I'm in a phase where I'm uncomfortable writing with them, and none of them are particularly wet. Second wettest writing pen is my old Lamy Logo with a Z55 "EF" nib, if the Falcon doesn't cut it I'll try the Lamy.

Then I also have a Pelikan M400 EF, but it was already stained by Diamine Sapphire so I'm not sure I want to try Bilberry in there. Maybe I should stop buying white pens.

 

 

Digression apart (sorry), I really really really hope your pens don't get moldy. Maybe your Herbin is from the beginning of the 2010's when they had all these mold problems? I hope Sumire will keep your Waterman mold free. It's a lovely ink.

 

Speaking of Doyou, I have it at the moment in a Platinum EF. Well lubricated, to me too it looks like black, but not completely. Matte drying, I mean to compare it side by side with Sailor black but I'm yet to do that.

When I got the sample I thought it would be like PI Yama-Guri...absolutely not. 

 

I only have one Vanishing Point, and I got it so long ago that the name on it is Namiki.

I don't use it much but I take it out for a spin every once in a while.  It's a smooth writer with a medium nib.  For the longest time it had either Namiki Blue or Namki Black ink but currently it's filled with Kon-Peki.

 

The Bilberry:  I find that it dries on the nib too.  If I hesitate too long or stop writing, bam, it's dried up and I have a hard start.  I don't know what the deal is, maybe it was developed as a quick drying ink, haha.

 

I only get decent results, sheening and outlining, on Cosmo Snow or Iroful and I wish Iroful was white instead of cream.  I saw the bearest "hint" of an outline on Tomoe River Sanzen white and View Corona which is cream.  I don't remember if I saw anything on Thin Kokuyo so I'll give it a shot right now....  so OK, I see the "hint" of a glow around the words, a "hint" of an outline here and there, if I look carefully and some infrequent shading, which I didn't see very much of on the Cosmo.  I like thin Kokuyo better than the cream colored View Corona, which gives me the impression of being more toothy, but neither is as enjoyable to write on as any of the Tomoe River papers.  But the 'drying' is very annoying and a detriment to using Bilberry.  (I just checked and dull lifeless Doyou doesn't dry out on the nib.)  I wonder if a drop or two of water would keep Bilberry from drying out so fast

 

My Herbin Cafe Des Iles is from the late '90s.  It was OK for all those years until recently after I rehydrated it.  I've rehydrated many inks and this one is the only one that "turned".  I just looked at the bottle and there's nothing floating and the ink looks and smells perfectly good so I'll have to investigate further with a dip pen and see how it writes.

 

And now, what to do with Doyou?  Why use it over any other black?

[Lithium466]

I have yet to experiment more with Bilberry, I think I will ink two pens with it today, including a prone to dry Sailor 1911, and will see how frustrating it gets at work! I'm planning several meetings with thinking and pondering and arguing with eyes rolling so that's time I'll spend pen uncapped, not writing. I'm sure adding water will help.
 

Re: Doyou. What to do with it? It's a more complex Sailor black, that doesn't dry as fast...also much more expensive. Maybe in a very dry pen? It's supposed to clean but I don't have enough left to try in my Pelikan. It flows well though...