Some Ink Tests

[Lithium466]

  On 11/21/2024 at 7:59 AM, USG said:

 

I don't see the attraction to Visconti.  Good to know Ao has a sticky problem.  A few of LIthium's inks caught my eye.  Konigsblau has some interesting undertones.  Thunderbolt looked interesting too and of course the Tacci inks...

 

Btw, do have Nitrogen?  If you do does yours smear when dry?  I have a sample and it does not.  Just curious.

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If you find Nitrogen not smearing, you won't have any problem with the Taccia.

That said, I don't have Nitrogen anymore, got rid of the full bottle at last year's Pelikan hub, it was honestly very usable, except for persistent hard start (I tend to pause too long with pen uncapped, I guess), and some smearing if the writing was rubbed with ever so slightly moist hands. It's possible that the original formula was tweaked, my bottle was from 2023.

 

 

I did notice the same thing, but way less problematically, with Taccia Kuro (black) and Ao (blue). I think these are just perfect for F/EF nibs, good flow, still showing some interesting properties, good lubrication. No stickiness so far, but I could foresee with some evaporation.

 

In the same style as Nitrogen, you have Octopus fluids Unicorn, which I would place in between (OS Nitrogen - OF Unicorn - - - Taccia Ao/Ruri/Kuro) in term of smearing.

[Lithium466]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:00 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

1000% this. I recently took it off of my Black Friday wishlist... again! I just can't justify a full bottle of a mystery ink when it costs that much, especially when I have numerous inks that are already in that segment of the color spectrum. I was hoping the cartridges would function as a sample but... lesson learned.

 

 

 

I think that's a helpful comparison! and your judgement of Waterman vs Ao is spot on. I'd parrot your remarks. But I'd also add that Ao got sticky with age and its sheen was prone to smearing for me. As much as I prefer Ao's appearance, Waterman behaves better. There are numerous sheening blues that I'd choose before Ao, but I should also admit that I only tried Ao in one or two pens last year'ish.

 

I appreciate your comparison with Konigsblau, too. Serenity Blue is nice but a tad undersaturated for my taste. Konigsblau has caught my attention on several occasions but if it is even less saturated then I'm happy to leave it on the shelf for one of its many fans. Thanks!

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Very true, overall Waterman Serenity blue behaves better...but that goes with its less saturated nature! I wouldn't use them with the same type of pens...as I don't really use my pens that work well with W blue, that bottle will probably have to go, I'm running out of ink storage space, or so some (very rude) people in my household like to remind me.

 

I am too very upset at the Visconti blue cartridges, just a basic royal blue. If you intend to get something from Andersons, act quickly, I think they are going bankrupt/closing, sadly.

[Lithium466]

  On 11/21/2024 at 7:27 AM, USG said:

 

I'll have to try that.  Sounds like a way to boost the blue color in pale inks...👍😀  The sheen is nice but Bilberry by itself just looks black.

 

 

 

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How would you put Bilberry against Sailor Shigure? I remember being disappointed at Shigure that just looked black (there's already Doyou for that). 
 

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 11:48 AM, Lithium466 said:

If you find Nitrogen not smearing, you won't have any problem with the Taccia.

That said, I don't have Nitrogen anymore, got rid of the full bottle at last year's Pelikan hub, it was honestly very usable, except for persistent hard start (I tend to pause too long with pen uncapped, I guess), and some smearing if the writing was rubbed with ever so slightly moist hands. It's possible that the original formula was tweaked, my bottle was from 2023.

 

 

I did notice the same thing, but way less problematically, with Taccia Kuro (black) and Ao (blue). I think these are just perfect for F/EF nibs, good flow, still showing some interesting properties, good lubrication. No stickiness so far, but I could foresee with some evaporation.

 

In the same style as Nitrogen, you have Octopus fluids Unicorn, which I would place in between (OS Nitrogen - OF Unicorn - - - Taccia Ao/Ruri/Kuro) in term of smearing.

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My sample of Nitrogen was from the same time period.  Heavy sheening dark blue ink from a Jinhao X159 <M>.  Reverse writing it was turquoise. 

 

I could be wrong but doesn't the majority of inks smear with moist hands.

 

I don't think I played with it long enough to comment more.  I looked up Unicorn and I can see where it fits in.  It reminds me of Jack Frost, which is another ink which sheens heavily and can look black.

 

 

 

 

[USG]

  On 11/20/2024 at 10:00 PM, AmericanMonk said:

But I'd also add that Ao got sticky with age and its sheen was prone to smearing for me.

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Funny you should mention the ink got sticky with age.  Lately I've noticed that some of the pages in my recent notebooks had areas where they stuck together.  I didn't pay attention to what ink was the culprit, but I don't remember noticing that before.

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 11:54 AM, Lithium466 said:

Very true, overall Waterman Serenity blue behaves better...but that goes with its less saturated nature! I wouldn't use them with the same type of pens...as I don't really use my pens that work well with W blue, that bottle will probably have to go, I'm running out of ink storage space, or so some (very rude) people in my household like to remind me.

 

I am too very upset at the Visconti blue cartridges, just a basic royal blue. If you intend to get something from Andersons, act quickly, I think they are going bankrupt/closing, sadly.

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Not to be contradictory but my experience with Waterman Blue has been  positive.  I have it in a few pens I use all the time.   It's hard to beat for a rich dark blue ink that works in every pen I put it in, and shades & sheens (but not too much to be annoying).  It doesn't hard start, dry out or get moldy and dries fast enough not to have a smearing problem.  😀  [Yeah I know YMMV]

 

I still don't see the attraction to Visconti Blue ink.

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 11:57 AM, Lithium466 said:

How would you put Bilberry against Sailor Shigure? I remember being disappointed at Shigure that just looked black (there's already Doyou for that). 
 

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I have Shigure in a couple of pens.  A medium Jinhao X159 and an EF Jinhao X159.  I remember it drying out on the nib like Bilberry.

 

 

I have Bilberry in a medium Jinhao X159 and it hard starts the same way it did for you.  I also have it in my Pilot 743 FA and it's perfect there.  No hard starts or drying out.

 

I haven't diluted Shigure but Bilberry dilutes into some very nice shades.

 

 

Here it is with the glitter illuminated

 

EDIT:  I don't remember if Shigure dried out on the nib or not.

[Lithium466]

🤩 very pretty.

 

Ok then...hard starts, my nemesis. What about Kuretake Shikon? 

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, Lithium466 said:

🤩 very pretty.

 

Ok then...hard starts, my nemesis. What about Kuretake Shikon? 

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I don't have it....  🤷‍♂️

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, Lithium466 said:

🤩 very pretty.

 

Ok then...hard starts, my nemesis.

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No one likes hard starts, right?  But it becomes a fact of life if you have a lot of pens inked the way I do.  I keep a water syringe handy and don't think twice about administering a drop of water to a pen that dried a little.  

 

What I don't like (like you) is when the ink dries on the nib if I stop writing for a minute or so.

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/21/2024 at 7:59 AM, USG said:

I don't see the attraction to Visconti.  Good to know Ao has a sticky problem.  A few of LIthium's inks caught my eye.  Konigsblau has some interesting undertones.  Thunderbolt looked interesting too and of course the Tacci inks...

 

Btw, do have Nitrogen?  If you do does yours smear when dry?  I have a sample and it does not.  Just curious.

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I'm afraid I've never even tried Nitrogen but I assume it would smear after it dries for me. I live close enough to Lake Michigan that my environment is more humid than the average environment. It wouldn't surprise me if that's a factor.

 

For high-coverage, metallic-sheening blue inks I have Diamine's Bloody Brexit and Maureen. Brexit is another one that I could probably give another try now that I have a wider selection of pens and papers, but it was messy. It is dusty, smeary, and forms little nuggets of dried dye bombs around the rim. I'd find those nuggets randomly across my desk throughout the week after a fill and, yes, they were easily reactivated. I heard that Nitrogen was the same way so I skipped that one.

 

And with sheening inks, time is a factor, too. I've come back to writing samples that were good when I shelved them, but quietly produced sheen dust just by sitting around. Same with glitter inks spreading the mica. This isn't to the same extent that Nitrogen is reported to stain carpets with its dye bombs, but enough to distract the eye from what used to be pristine beauty.

 

Regardless, I'm happy to hear that Nitrogen behaves well for you. I hope it stays that way!

 

As for Visconti... I appreciate vibrant blues. I have plenty of them but am open to trying new samples of things to find out if I should replace my current selection with more of the same or if Visconti is worth the cost when my current stock runs out. On my screen, bottled Visconti Blue looks quite vibrant.

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/21/2024 at 11:54 AM, Lithium466 said:

I am too very upset at the Visconti blue cartridges, just a basic royal blue. If you intend to get something from Andersons, act quickly, I think they are going bankrupt/closing, sadly.

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Sad news indeed! They've always treated me well and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again if they have what I'm looking for in stock. I knew about their unfortunate timing with opening a Chicago location right before covid that didn't last long but I'd hate for them to lose their original store, too! What makes you think that they're closing?

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/21/2024 at 12:49 PM, USG said:

My sample of Nitrogen was from the same time period.  Heavy sheening dark blue ink from a Jinhao X159 <M>.  Reverse writing it was turquoise. 

 

I could be wrong but doesn't the majority of inks smear with moist hands.

Expand  

 

Hearing about the turquoise was a surprise!

 

Thanks to the humidity where I live, my finger oils will often persist on my fingers until they're wiped in some way. And I'm a lefty who is most comfortable with an overhook so I assume that I am more sensitive than most to smearing. I would say, at least in my experience, that most inks absorb well enough into the paper that they won't smear even if I tried to make it happen. But it is (in part) because I am a lefty that I don't use the "fine china" papers are much as you do. My every day papers tow the line between absorbent and FP-friendly.

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/21/2024 at 1:01 PM, USG said:

Funny you should mention the ink got sticky with age.  Lately I've noticed that some of the pages in my recent notebooks had areas where they stuck together.  I didn't pay attention to what ink was the culprit, but I don't remember noticing that before.

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😬 I've had that happen once or twice. It can be alarming in the moment, jah? I couldn't tell you which ink(s) were the culprit(s) for me, either. It wouldn't surprise me if they were heavy sheeners.

 

With Ao's stickiness, however, I meant that it got sticky with age in the pen. Many of my pens are cheap Chinese options with no cap liners, so most of the blame is on the pen. I get what I pay for but it doesn't usually bother me. Most inks just get darker and more prone to sheen or shade (and in some cases I appreciate the changes!) but a few inks get thick and/or sticky.

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 4:01 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

I'm afraid I've never even tried Nitrogen but I assume it would smear after it dries for me. I live close enough to Lake Michigan that my environment is more humid than the average environment. It wouldn't surprise me if that's a factor.

 

For high-coverage, metallic-sheening blue inks I have Diamine's Bloody Brexit and Maureen. Brexit is another one that I could probably give another try now that I have a wider selection of pens and papers, but it was messy. It is dusty, smeary, and forms little nuggets of dried dye bombs around the rim. I'd find those nuggets randomly across my desk throughout the week after a fill and, yes, they were easily reactivated. I heard that Nitrogen was the same way so I skipped that one.

 

And with sheening inks, time is a factor, too. I've come back to writing samples that were good when I shelved them, but quietly produced sheen dust just by sitting around. Same with glitter inks spreading the mica. This isn't to the same extent that Nitrogen is reported to stain carpets with its dye bombs, but enough to distract the eye from what used to be pristine beauty.

 

Regardless, I'm happy to hear that Nitrogen behaves well for you. I hope it stays that way!

 

As for Visconti... I appreciate vibrant blues. I have plenty of them but am open to trying new samples of things to find out if I should replace my current selection with more of the same or if Visconti is worth the cost when my current stock runs out. On my screen, bottled Visconti Blue looks quite vibrant.

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I know what you mean... sheen dust, glitter and dye bombs...  The more concentrated the ink the worse the situation gets.😀

 

  On 11/21/2024 at 4:09 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

Sad news indeed! They've always treated me well and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again if they have what I'm looking for in stock. I knew about their unfortunate timing with opening a Chicago location right before covid that didn't last long but I'd hate for them to lose their original store, too! What makes you think that they're closing?

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Someone posted that they were out of business.  The website is still operational.

 

  On 11/21/2024 at 4:23 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

Hearing about the turquoise was a surprise!

 

Thanks to the humidity where I live, my finger oils will often persist on my fingers until they're wiped in some way. And I'm a lefty who is most comfortable with an overhook so I assume that I am more sensitive than most to smearing. I would say, at least in my experience, that most inks absorb well enough into the paper that they won't smear even if I tried to make it happen. But it is (in part) because I am a lefty that I don't use the "fine china" papers are much as you do. My every day papers tow the line between absorbent and FP-friendly.

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Speaking of everyday paper, do you use OPTIK paper?

 

  On 11/21/2024 at 4:47 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

😬 I've had that happen once or twice. It can be alarming in the moment, jah? I couldn't tell you which ink(s) were the culprit(s) for me, either. It wouldn't surprise me if they were heavy sheeners.

 

With Ao's stickiness, however, I meant that it got sticky with age in the pen. Many of my pens are cheap Chinese options with no cap liners, so most of the blame is on the pen. I get what I pay for but it doesn't usually bother me. Most inks just get darker and more prone to sheen or shade (and in some cases I appreciate the changes!) but a few inks get thick and/or sticky.

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I like inexpensive Chinese pens, especially Jinhao X159s.  I use them for my ink tests.  Although they're inexpensive, they're not cheap in the negative sense of the word.  INHO they write as well as anything else out there.  Sometimes the mediums are on the dry side and you have to adjust them.  I just swapped an EF nib into an X159, dipped it in Yama-Budo ink and it's as smooth as silk with a little bounce.  And because it's a clone the ergonomics are there.  A pen that writes like this spoils you.

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/21/2024 at 3:57 PM, USG said:

I keep a water syringe handy and don't think twice about administering a drop of water to a pen that dried a little.

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I should play around with this idea! I like it!

 

Do you squeeze enough water out so a drop is dangling from the syringe and then touch it to the breather hole on the back of a nib just to get it started? Or is it added to the converter? Have you ever used (or made your own) additives like White Lightning or an Ink Rehydrater?

[AmericanMonk]

  On 11/21/2024 at 5:02 PM, USG said:

Someone posted that they were out of business.  The website is still operational.

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I'll bet that was just their Chicago location. Their site shows that their Appleton location still has open hours. Hopefully that info is accurate.

 

But even if their Appleton doors close I hope their internet presence sticks around!

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 5:13 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

I should play around with this idea! I like it!

 

Do you squeeze enough water out so a drop is dangling from the syringe and then touch it to the breather hole on the back of a nib just to get it started? Or is it added to the converter? Have you ever used (or made your own) additives like White Lightning or an Ink Rehydrater?

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I squeeze out one drop from one of those wide needles  (maybe #15??) they sell on Amazon, turn the nib over and touch the drop to the underside of the nib between the tipping and the feed.  The water gets pulled in between the nib and the feed by capillary action.  I have all my pens inked so if I want to use one that I haven't written with in a long time, it might need one or two drops of water.  Sometimes, if the pen had a very concentrated ink, I might put a drop or so on the slit area on top of the nib.  If you administer too many drops, it just dilutes the 'feed' ink a little but as soon as the regular ink starts flowing, everything is back to normal.  You can't do any damage.

 

As far as what I use to dilute or in the syringe, I'm old school.  I use NY fluoridated tap water.  Always have.  Never had a problem with it.  I've had the ink in converters completely dry up.  I fill the converter about 1/2 full with water and go on my merry way.  Hasn't ever been a problem.  I suppose the puritans will scoff but people have been mixing ink 'Pills' with water for a hundred years.  I even have some Visconti ink Tablets from a long time ago. The instructions are to mix them with water.

 

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 4:23 PM, AmericanMonk said:

 

Hearing about the turquoise was a surprise!

 

Thanks to the humidity where I live, my finger oils will often persist on my fingers until they're wiped in some way. And I'm a lefty who is most comfortable with an overhook so I assume that I am more sensitive than most to smearing. I would say, at least in my experience, that most inks absorb well enough into the paper that they won't smear even if I tried to make it happen. But it is (in part) because I am a lefty that I don't use the "fine china" papers are much as you do. My every day papers tow the line between absorbent and FP-friendly.

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The dryer the nib the more turquoise Nitrogen looks.  I always thought of Nitrogen as a super saturated turquoise ink.  Add a little water, see what color it is.

 

Haha, nevermind, you don't have Nitrogen.

[USG]

  On 11/21/2024 at 4:47 PM, AmericanMonk said:

With Ao's stickiness, however, I meant that it got sticky with age in the pen. Many of my pens are cheap Chinese options with no cap liners, so most of the blame is on the pen. I get what I pay for but it doesn't usually bother me. Most inks just get darker and more prone to sheen or shade (and in some cases I appreciate the changes!) but a few inks get thick and/or sticky.

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Could you explain this "stickiness" in some detail?