Sheaffer Vac-Fil Triumph Nib Came Off

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

I got this Sheaffer Triumph vac-fill as a gift. I don't have the tools to repair it at the moment, but I figured if I can get it open (which I have heard is not easy), I will buy the tools. I left the pen soaking in cold soapy water for about 24 hours as per the instructions on Richard Binder's site to soak before trying to open it. Just cold water and common Dawn dish soap, not even any ammonia. No warm water.

 

I just took it off and dried it off and attempted to take the nib "unit" out. I did not apply any heat, just wanted to test it out lightly to see if it would budge. No section pliers, just very very gentle pressure turning with my fingers and a grippy rubber square. When I say gentle, I mean gentle - I don't have very strong hand strength and I struggle with getting sections out of pens sometimes.

 

Unfortunately the nib unscrewed instead of the nib assembly, and both the nib and feed came out separately. It is my understanding that this should definitely not happen and these usually take considerable force (or heat) to separate the nib from the assembly. Neither of which I applied.

 

 

So... these are my questions:

 

1. Can I place the feed back in and carefully shellac the nib back onto those threads? The threads are in very bad shape, the top thread is hanging on by a hair. 
2. If the above is possible, can I complete the repair without taking out the remains of the nib assembly? My main concern is that again, the threads that the nib attaches to are in horrible shape and I am worried that just by pushing out the rod with the little round spacer (the rubber gasket appears to have long disintegrated) through the opening will break the threads for good.
3. If the above aren't possible, what are my options? The rest of the pen is in great shape as far as I can see so I'd like to repair this if possible. Excellent clarity on the see-through bits of the barrel, no cracks that I can see. Steel rod is in fantastic shape too.

I also wanted to apologize, I don't mean to spam the forum with all my threads. If this is too much or I should put all of this in one thread, please let me know and I will do so. Thank you for the help.

 

 

[Ron Z]

You do seem to have a tough time with repairs.   It may be possible to shellac the nib on the threads, but you also risk shellacing the bushing in too. 

 

No,  you can not complete the repair without taking the rest of the nib assembly out.  The diameter of the head gasket is a bit bigger than the ID of the section threads, and the bushing will block taking the rod and head gasket out, as well as inserting the 0-ring and retaining washer, and getting things back together again.

 

There is an option that  you don't mention.....  letting someone who can get the threads bushing out of the section do so and reassemble the pen.  If the pen is as nice as you say indicate it is, you might want to think about that, and practice on a beater pen.

 

There's nothing wrong with the threads that I can see, but we have just the one shot.  Trying to get it out on your own can break the bushing if you don't know what you're doing.   The bushing can be replaced if it is indeed as bad as you say it is.  I've also been known to repair them if they are celluloid. 

 

BTW,  you learned the hard lesson - your chances of getting the nib unit out without the right tools is 50% at best.  That's why Richard and I spent a year discussing the best approach before we took any customers pens in for repair. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

What is the proper tool? I was following the instructions here: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/plunger.htm

 

Quote

Working quickly because the pen will cool rapidly, grasp the section with a gripper square and the nib with section pliers, and try to unscrew the nib. Do not squeeze too firmly on the nib, as it is relatively thin and easily squashed. If it does not unscrew, apply heat (remembering to test the temperature) and try again. Sometimes, trying to screw it in tighter can break the adhesion of the sealant, but do not push too hard in that direction, as there is a risk of cracking the section. This process might need to be repeated several times before the nib unit comes loose. When it finally does, unscrew it all the way out of the section.

 

Only difference I did not use heat, and I did not use section pliers. I wasn't even intending to unscrew fully, my intent was to test if it was still holding tight, and then getting some heat and my section pliers for a "serious" attempt. It ended up coming off with almost no pressure at all while I was lightly turning it with my fingers.

[FarmBoy]

There is a collet like tool that grips Triumph nibs for more reliable removal. 

[Ron Z]

Dale Beebe at pentooling.com sells the Triumph nib removal tool that was made by Francis Goosens.  I've had mine since Francis came out with them nearly 15 years ago.  I would never consider trying to take one of these nibs out without it, and at this point I've done hundreds of them.

 

Go to his website and go the Sheaffer tools section.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Ah, so the instructions on Richard's site are not updated? None of guides/videos I found online said that this tool was required for removing the Triumph nib units.

 

As a hobbyist, that tool is way too expensive for me, I don't intend to restore more than one or two of these for the novelty. In total it would probably cost me > $250 to buy all the tools I need to restore one of these, and it's not economical for one pen. I am not planning to make a business out of this.

 

I think I am just going to put this pen away until I figure out a way to get the bushing out safely (or just leave it unrestored, if I can't).

[FarmBoy]

How much did the pen cost?

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

It was a gift so... free, I guess? But I am not sure that at this point this tool would even work given that the nib and feed have unscrewed off the bushing.

[es9]

Working on any sheaffer vac filler is really not possible without that tool. It works about 80% of the time for me, but I’m still very much in the learning phase of repair work. At this point, I wouldn’t think of trying the repair without one. True, it would take selling a lot of pens to make it “economical.” But without it, you’re basically buying parts. And you can be pretty sure one part will be a broken nib unit. Francis’ tool is to a sheaffer vac filler what a vac wrench is to a parker vacumatic—maybe you get lucky once or twice, but you’re guaranteed to screw things up the vast majority of the time. 
 

If the nib has already come off, try a screw extractor to get the collar/bushing out. I’ve personally found the square ones work best. 
 

Richard’s instructions are usually great, but they do seem a little dated on this one. For example, I don’t see how this repair could reliably hold without some kind if closure washer. Additionally, I don’t think shellac would work nearly as well as epoxy for securing a packing unit that has come out. You can find better instructions elsewhere on this website.

 

One personal recommendation: Don’t skip reaming the packing cavity after you’ve drilled out the old packing materials. Everything will fit much more easily if you do. 

[Ron Z]

Richard and I differ on the packing unit. He uses a method that h as you removing the packing material while leaving a ring slightly smaller than an 0-ring at the outside end.   The 0-ring can be fit into this area and it pops back to shape to fill the cavity.  I quit using that method over a decade ago when I found that even packing in a lot of silicone grease around the 0-ring you could have some ink where you don't want it.  Drilling through the barrel end, reaming, and then inserting the 0-ring with the tool I designed (and Dale sells - the RZ) the 0-ring and retaining washer go in very easily.  BTW, I don't make any money off of the design.  I gave it to Dale because I thought that people who want to repair the pens needed it, and I had/have NO intention of ever making them for sale.

 

My success rate with the nib removal tool went from 50/50 to over 99%.  I rarely damage a nib any more, and as I said, I do a lot of repairs.  I never try to take a nib out without it, even if I've had the nib out of the pen before.  If you save a couple of nibs and/or a pen, you've paid for the tool. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Is there a link with the most up to date technique for restoring these? I was under the impression that Richard Binder's methods were the safest and most reliable for restoring pens. I heard of this tool before but I thought it was very optional. Obviously not...

[es9]

For the back end of the repair, David Nishimura’s instructions are a pretty good overview of what you’re doing. I think most folks use the 1/4” viton ring, but that’s up to you. I used to solvent-weld the closure washer in, but recently switched to epoxy; see this thread for the relevant discussion.  Ron’s tool definitely makes all this considerably easier, but it is not strictly speaking “necessary” the way Francis’ nib removal tool is. 
 

I don’t think there’s anything wrong per se with Richard’s instructions; reasonable minds just differ on some of this. Here are a few other potential helpful tips. These are my practices; others may disagree. (I fact, I would love others to disagree! Disagreement leads to learning.) 

• Make sure you get all the old packing materials out. To access the packing materials, you first have to drill through a black celluloid closure washer. Then make sure you remove two black rubber washers with two grease-impregnated felt washers in between. Think of it like a double-stuffed Oreo where the cookies are rubber washers and the filling is felt. (The felt may still be white or it may be stained from ink.) It’s easy to miss the second rubber washer that sits at the back/bottom of the packing unit. Richard’s instructions provide images of good tools for this purpose. 
• You want the packing cavity to be clean and clear of all debris. I ream the hole to make sure it’s wide enough to comfortably accept the viton o-ring and styrene closure washer. It’s probably overkill, but I also use a flat-end drill bit or an end mill to make sure the back/bottom of the packing cavity is clear too. 
• I then use Ron’s tool to install the o-ring. I do not apply any silicone grease at this time. Then, I sand the edge of the white styrene closure washer, apply a little high quality epoxy around the edge, and install it with Ron’s tool. I invariably get some epoxy in the barrel, but a long cotton swab easily takes care of this.
• After all that cures, I use another cotton swab to apply a very thin coating of silicone grease to the inside of the barrel. This will lubricate the head gasket. 
• I then use the tool that looks like a long needle to install the plunger. I apply silicone grease to it before pushing it through the back end of the barrel and then apply more when pulling the plunger rod back through. This ensures silicone grease gets on both sides of the o-ring.
• Richard’s instructions on the head gasket look right to me. 
• When you heat up the section to take off the nib (with the proper tool, of course!), make sure to pay attention to the temperature. If the section is too hot, you will warp/twist it. A non-contact thermometer is extremely helpful. 

There’s a decently steep learning curve with these pens. The repair is considerably more complicated than swapping a sac or installing a new diaphragm, for example. And you definitely need to invest in some tools. It’s a really rewarding repair, however. When you hear that “pop,” it’s all worth it. And the rubber parts should last a very long time—considerably longer than a latex sac. 

 

[FarmBoy]

Looks like Binder was restoring an open nib pen in his example. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

1 hour ago, FarmBoy said:

Looks like Binder was restoring an open nib pen in his example. 

 

Yes, but there are different instructions for removing the nib assembly/section for the three different types; the earlier Balance open nibs, the Triumph nibs, and the post-war open nibs. I quoted the relevant section for the Triumph nibs above. I don't see any mention of the specialized Triumph nib removal tool unless I missed it.

 

Anyways, I've put the pen away and won't be attempting another one of these for now. I don't intend to try it without the proper tools (only reason I tried removing the nib assembly as I did was because I wasn't aware the tool was needed, most guides don't reference it), but as I said it's not economical for me to buy those tools for one or two pens.

 

Barring an unexpected windfall, that is. If I win the lottery, I'm buying every tool on Dale's site. Maybe some doubles for good measure like some extra nib pliers.

[FarmBoy]

Often repairing a pen cost more than a repaired pen. 

[Ron Z]

Anyways, I've put the pen away and won't be attempting another one of these for now.

 

I think that's a good strategy, and you're wise for doing that.  I, and other professional pen mechanics, often set a pen aside for a bit until we understand the repair, have the right parts or right tools.  That's part of what goes into "thoughtful" pen repair.