Any cheap water resistant blue and black inks ?

[khalameet]

6 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Interesting… because Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black is one of the strongest smelling inks I've come across, not of inorganic chemicals per se, but of sumi ink for Chinese brush calligraphy.

Pelikan inks were reformulated a few times throughout the years. The royal blue alone has had at least two changes since around 2000, if not more than that. I also had two variants of the black ink, the one bought after 2017 definitely had a smell which the previous bottles didn't have.

[KidleP]

21 hours ago, Azulado said:

Koor-i-nor document blue is simply perfect. I believe it also meets an ISO standard for water resistance.

Wow! want to try Koor-I-nor document ink someday. Thanks for sharing experience!! Sadly I couldn't find a store that sell it in Thailand. 😂

[RJS]

Iron gall inks and inks like Pilot Blue Black still bleed a bit, so I'd recommend Souboku, as it doesn't bleed at all. You can buy it on Lazada, from a seller that specialises in Sailor inks. I quite like Seiboku, but it's strongly teal to my eye, which I'm not a fan of. I bought the somewhat water resistant Sailor Blue from them before. I'm residing in Bangkok. 😊

[PithyProlix]

On 6/21/2023 at 6:31 PM, KidleP said:

I'm not sure if @PithyProlixexperience the same chemicals smell as me ?

 

I received the remaining Thai Pilot inks today. I believe the smell is phenol. To my nose it doesn't smell particularly strong - I can't smell it unless I put my nose up to the open bottle. I won't say I didn't inhale (unlike a certain former US president).

 

Some impressions:

• The inks other than Erasable Blue are all marked as "Washable" on their boxes.
• Erasable Blue is a darker and very different color than Washable Blue. It is not a blue black, though. Washable Blue looks much like other washable blues, e.g. Parker's. I haven't tried a water resistance test yet but yours doesn't seem washable at all. I wonder if they were trying to match the color of Parker Washable Blue, hence the name, while not actually making it washable?
• What the heck is going on with Washable Red? Looking in the bottle, it's the most translucent ink that I have ever seen - looks like it has a very low dye load. The color on the page is a very pinky red, reminiscent of cotton candy. I was hoping for a middle of the road red, a color I don't have that can be useful. But this? Is yours the same, @KidleP? 
• Aha - I see the date now, under the box lid. My inks range from 2017 to 2023 so that kills my theory that they are a legacy of Pilot Korea. But I don't understand why Pilot Thailand is still making this ink. I don't think they are exported and there are not many fountain pen users in Thailand, much less those who would buy these inks, I would think.

I will start a new thread with a comparison of the four inks, maybe tomorrow.

[Lithium466]

4 hours ago, KidleP said:

Wow! want to try Koor-I-nor document ink someday. Thanks for sharing experience!! Sadly I couldn't find a store that sell it in Thailand. 😂

Got mine from ebay quite cheap even with shipping from CZ republic

I recommend you try the black (which isn't black) too while you are there.

[Azulado]

23 hours ago, KidleP said:

Wow! want to try Koor-I-nor document ink someday. Thanks for sharing experience!! Sadly I couldn't find a store that sell it in Thailand. 😂

In this Czech Ebay shop you can buy the Koor-i-nor ink:

https://www.ebay.com/str/pinkbox7

In the advert, they mention free shipping. The ink is sold for about 7 euros and the bottle is 50 ml.
I buy it in Brazil because an importer brought a batch, but I don't know how long the stock will last.
There is also a black waterproof ink available.

 

 

[KidleP]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:09 PM, Lithium466 said:

Got mine from ebay quite cheap even with shipping from CZ republic

I recommend you try the black (which isn't black) too while you are there.

Thanks for your recommendation ☺️. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Azulado said:

In this Czech Ebay shop you can buy the Koor-i-nor ink:

https://www.ebay.com/str/pinkbox7

Thanks for the link sir 😁!

On 6/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, PithyProlix said:

The color on the page is a very pinky red, reminiscent of cotton candy. I was hoping for a middle of the road red, a color I don't have that can be useful. But this? Is yours the same

Sorry I did not order washable red , 😔 what I have is Blue washable and erasable, black . 

 

On 6/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, PithyProlix said:

I believe the smell is phenol.

Thank you for your information. it seems to be phenol. from a paper I read , phenol is added to inks in order to prevent bacterial and mold colonization because phenol is once use as antiseptic. but biological test prove that it is not enough. I wonder if there is water resistant ink /or document ink that don't use phenol ? (my nose seems to be super sensitive to phenol and large amount of phenol ingestion/inhalation can do harm to your body) .I've heard somewhere that phenol is illegal in Europe ? so Europe ink is phenol free  ??

 

as I try to do some research further into chemicals in ink, I found an interesting paper (.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238127843_Chemical_Composition_of_a_Fountain_Pen_Ink). 

it is quite difficult to read since I am not a chemist but I try to understand

it.

 

from what I read from this paper and do some research on internet. the chemicals that make ink to be indelible or water resistant is Irongall or Iron(iii)sulfate. J.S. Bach and Leonardo da Vinci use Iron gall ink !! I can't believe it. 

 

Iron gall ink that contain Iron sulfate component can make the document indelible but unfortunately will fade overtime due to chemical reaction,. and iron gall ink can also cause "iron gall erosion"which will destroy the paper from this reaction " The surplus iron(II) ions react with atmospheric oxygen to form iron(III) oxide which has a paler colour than the iron(III) organic complexes. The ions also catalyse a chain reaction that generates hydrogen peroxide, a bleaching agent, and hydroxyl radicals that attack the cellulose in the paper." (source https://www.chemistryworld.com/podcasts/ferrous-sulfate/3010179.article)

 

 

 

although it will fade over time it still make manuscript of J.S. Bach and Leonardo's document to last for centuries... 

 

I wonder how platinum carbon ink can be water resistant. contrary to this website (https://www.chemistryworld.com/podcasts/ferrous-sulfate/3010179.article) carbon inks tend to fail smudge test and are non water resistant( may be the same as swab test? )

 

 

I am sorry if I understand something wrong. anybody please correct me if I said something wrong. I am very new to fountain pen world and especially ink, and I am not a chemist🙏

 

 

 

 

On 6/22/2023 at 11:09 PM, Lithium466 said:

 

(sorry I can not delete the blank quote above)

[KidleP]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:35 PM, RJS said:

I'd recommend Souboku, as it doesn't bleed at all. You can buy it on Lazad

Thank you !🙏☺️ I found the shop you mentioned ! Nice to hear that you are from Bangkok too !😁

[Dt123]

I just posted a review on a Kohinoor waterproof blue ink. I use it in cheap piston converter roller ball pens - works great.

 

Here's the review link

 

[AceNinja]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:52 PM, PithyProlix said:

• The inks other than Erasable Blue are all marked as "Washable" on their boxes.
• Erasable Blue is a darker and very different color than Washable Blue. It is not a blue black, though. Washable Blue looks much like other washable blues, e.g. Parker's. I haven't tried a water resistance test yet but yours doesn't seem washable at all. I wonder if they were trying to match the color of Parker Washable Blue, hence the name, while not actually making it washable?

For Parker quink, what I understand is that 'Washable blue' means, the ink is washable from cloth if you spilled it on cloth.  'Permanent blue' means the ink can stain permanently on cloth (or at least very very difficult to wash off).  The 'permanent' or 'washable' has no meaning on weather it has water resistance on paper, according to Parker's language, it is only water resistance on clothing.

 

you can check the description from well known retailer.

https://goldspot.com/products/parker-quink-bottles-permanent-black

https://www.jetpens.com/Parker-Quink-Blue-Black-Ink-Permanent-2-oz-Bottle/pd/6161

 

[PithyProlix]

5 hours ago, AceNinja said:

For Parker quink, what I understand is that 'Washable blue' means, the ink is washable from cloth if you spilled it on cloth.  'Permanent blue' means the ink can stain permanently on cloth (or at least very very difficult to wash off).  The 'permanent' or 'washable' has no meaning on weather it has water resistance on paper, according to Parker's language, it is only water resistance on clothing.

 

you can check the description from well known retailer.

https://goldspot.com/products/parker-quink-bottles-permanent-black

https://www.jetpens.com/Parker-Quink-Blue-Black-Ink-Permanent-2-oz-Bottle/pd/6161

 

Thanks - that's great information and I was wondering if it might be along the lines of how well the ink washes from fabric. (Goodness knows, I would have come home every day with ink stains all over my clothes if fountain pens were still in use when I was in school! Given the number of pants I currently have with ink stains on their legs, perhaps things haven't changed much with me. )

 

When I get some time to continue my comparison of the Thai Pilot inks it might be fun to do a 'washability' comparison using an old cotton t-shirt or rag. If my ink inventory list is correct, I should have Lamy Washable Blue, modern Quink Blue Black, vintage Quink Permanent Blue Black, Royal Blue, & Violet, (but not a Washable Quink, alas), Pelikan 4001 Konigsblau (which is supposed to be washable), vintage Skrip Permanent Blue Black 22, Permanent Royal Blue 54, & Washable Blue 42, and vintage Waterman Permanent Blue Black and I might include some (or all) of those in the comparison.

[PithyProlix]

BTW, I'm in the middle of doing my comparison of the Thai Pilot inks and my bottle of Washable Blue seems to be very water resistant, at least on the Kokuyo paper I am using for the test. It not a bad blue for what it is, fairly cheery and maybe a little less boring than other "washable blues" I've seen. Similar to the other washable blues I've seen, it has a soft, fairly 'unsaturated' look. I personally strongly prefer a more serious blue black (like Souboku, for one) for professional/business writing and correspondence.

 

If 'cheap' is a priority criteria this might work well for you. Of course, the vast majority of FPN members likely do not have little practical way to access this Thai ink, so this may be useless information for them. 

[KidleP]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:51 AM, Dt123 said:

Here's the review link

Thanks for the link 🙏☺️ Really like the color and the ink is inexpensive ! I will surely try it in the future! 

On 6/28/2023 at 7:55 AM, AceNinja said:

Permanent blue' means the ink can stain permanently on cloth

Thanks 🙏 I need to be more careful now , 😔. in fact I've stained some of my company's uniforms with other ink in the past before.