Pocket Pens: Pilot vs/ Platinum vs/ Sailor

[OCArt]

I've become fascinated with Japanese pocket pens like the Pilot Elite and am starting my investigations. Any thoughts or preferences between the three big brands? Modern vs/ Vintage?  I should add that I prefer medium to broad nibs but realize that these will be more difficult to find.

 

Thank you as I look into these fun long/short pens!

[AmandaW]

I like them all! The Sailors are probably the easiest writers, but not so many nib choices come up. Platinum you will see everything over time: EF, F, SF, M, B, C, Script, Manifold, Posting... lot's of fun. Pilot a good choice too, but often a little dry. Fixable, but expect dry. Then there are all the colours and patterns. It's a rabbit hole.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Paul-in-SF]

Can't beat that for a summary.

 

I only have a couple, one Platinum plain black with gold trim, and one Pilot with a stainless body. The Pilot has an extendable barrel, which is a little disconcerting when I forget that it's there, and an aerometric style converter, which it just occurred to me to try in my Pilot Silvern and it fits, and I bet it holds more ink than the tiny converter that came with it.  The platinum has no converter and I don't think regular Platinum converters fit, being too long. 

[Number99]

Nib sizes for some vintage platinum pockets are shown in Kanji characters.

"極細" XF

"細字" F

"中字" M

"太字" B

"細軟" SF

Sailors are numbers.

1  XF

2  F

3  MF

4  M

5  Unknown

6  B

7  Zoom

9  Music

I do not know if 7 and 9 exist in sailor mini fountain pens.

Each manufacturer has many variations, each with different writing characteristics.

Please be careful.

They will multiply before you know it.

Foreign experts describe these as "pocket pens," while Pilot uses the model name "short," Sailor "mini fountain pens," and Platinum"pocket".

 

I prefer to use the B nib on my Sailor mini fountain pen, but unfortunately I write Japanese, not English.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Number99

[OCArt]

Wow, thanks for the great info. I've visited RichardsPens excellent and comprehensive page on pocket pens and gone through the archives here but so much to learn.  Thanks again for the good replies.

[langere]

Ah, the Pilot M90!  All steel. What a pen!

 

Erick

[PithyProlix]

I have a bunch. To my knowledge there is no modern Japanese pocket pen except for the Pilot Elite. I prefer fine nibs and don't have many pocket pens with medium nibs and none broad. 

 

Some impressions:

It's difficult to generalize for each maker because each has a large variety of models with different nib designs but all tend to be at least very good with very few clunkers. I think Pilots and Platinums tend to be more consistently good writers relative to Sailors but some Sailors can have pretty magical nibs as do some Platinums - i. e. the tactile experience can be something like writing with a brush rather than a metal nib - but most Sailors and Platinums do not give that kind of tactile experience.

 

I don't get the brush-like tactile experience with any Pilots but they are still great and very, very consistent, both from nib to nib of the same type and also they just tend to write really well without any fuss. I don't have a modern Elite but the vintage ones are my 'go to' pens, generally. But, that said, don't overlook non-Elite Pilots - though Elites have a wider variety of nib types, the non-Elites tend to be just as good as writers. 

 

I don't see the variety of nib types with Platinums that @AmandaW sees but I certainly do with Pilot. 

 

I am not a big fan of the Myu. For me, the nibs are too stiff and the writing experience unrefined. But they do look cool. 

 

I'm glad to answer any specific questions. 

[MYU]

While Sailor made some nice pocket sized fountain pens, in my experience PILOT was the most prolific. A much wider, richer offering of models. The Sailor "nib advantage" that brand enjoys in certain model lines where you've got these unusual and sought after nib types, is absent from the pocket sized models.

 

The PILOT Elite line is the best. It has that iconic inlaid nib that's so well known in PILOT fountain pen lore, particularly with the vintage Custom fountain pens. There was a reissue, I believe called the "L", but from all I've seen they're not an improvement over the vintage (and may not be up to par).

 

The MYU line is my favorite, with its attractive integrated steel nib. It does pose some limitations, as only fine, medium, and broad were offered (some say EF and FM were made, but if so they're incredibly rare). And the more recent version was the M90, which was unfortunately a more limited release than PILOT planned... thus making their market value now painfully high.

 

But one short fountain pen model that must be mentioned is the telescoping pocket models. Instead of a long cap and short body, the cap is a normal size, but the body extends by simply sliding the plastic body out from the central metal tube, becoming a normal sized pen. It's a really terrific design that results in a pen that's even shorter than the long-cap pocket pens. The nibs are small and range from EF to B.

 

Platinum made pocket sized fountain pens, the long-cap style pioneered by PILOT. In fact, they made a number of them with rather soft 22kt gold nibs.

[Number99]

On 5/1/2023 at 11:22 PM, Number99 said:

Nib sizes for some vintage platinum pockets are shown in Kanji characters.

"極細" XF

"細字" F

"中字" M

"太字" B

"細軟" SF

Sailors are numbers.

1  XF

2  F

3  MF

4  M

5  Unknown

6  B

7  Zoom

9  Music

I do not know if 7 and 9 exist in sailor mini fountain pens.

Each manufacturer has many variations, each with different writing characteristics.

Please be careful.

They will multiply before you know it.

Foreign experts describe these as "pocket pens," while Pilot uses the model name "short," Sailor "mini fountain pens," and Platinum"pocket".

 

I prefer to use the B nib on my Sailor mini fountain pen, but unfortunately I write Japanese, not English.

Sailor fountain pens often display nibs with the letter "F" attached.

For example "F1" and "F6", although I have no information on what this means yet.

But most of the time it is shown on stainless steel nib models. (This includes Sailor fountain pens made in Taiwan.)

And it does not seem to be related to the width of the writing line.

Please be careful not to make a mistake.

 

I have just sent an email to the Sailor fountain pen contact regarding this.

I will update the information as soon as I get a reply, if allowed.

 

Then there is the current model, maybe this could also be in this category. (But it may not be a short/long pocket.)

Sailor fountain pen web page (in Japanese)

https://sailor.co.jp/topics/progearslimmini_basic/

There is a current converter mini that fits this model, but the vintage model was not originally made with a converter, and the current converter mini does not seem to fit.

I do not have one, but just for information.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Number99
Add information.

[MYU]

Great info, Number99. Tell Max I say hello! 😉😄

[Number99]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:30 AM, MYU said:

Great info, Number99. Tell Max I say hello! 😉😄

Hello! @myu.

Which info?

If you're talking about converters, it's the reply I got the other day from the contact at Sailor.

If you're talking about the Pro Gear Slim Mini fountain pen, it's on the catalog in Japan, and I don't know if the Music or Zoom nibs are easily available overseas.

[Number99]

I received a reply from the consultation service of Sailor Fountain Pen Co.

The "F" is an abbreviation of the elemental symbol "Fe" and the number is an in-house control number.

 

[MYU]

On 5/11/2023 at 5:06 PM, Number99 said:

Hello! @myu.

Which info?

If you're talking about converters, it's the reply I got the other day from the contact at Sailor.

If you're talking about the Pro Gear Slim Mini fountain pen, it's on the catalog in Japan, and I don't know if the Music or Zoom nibs are easily available overseas.

Well, everything. I knew the F numbers meant nib size but wasn't sure about the exact assignment. I think from what you've shown, it's safe to conclude that F1 = XF (extra-fine) and F2 = F (fine). The F2 is most commonly encountered, and indeed, <F> nibs were generally the most popular in fountain pens across multiple Japanese brands. I wondered why they chose "F" plus a number for nib designation, and it makes sense, an abbreviation for Fe, the symbol for iron (ferrous oxide).. the core material used to make stainless steel.

 

Btw, don't know if you got the joke. "Max." In the comedy TV series Get Smart, Max had a sidekick whose name was Agent 99.

[Number99]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:43 AM, MYU said:

Well, everything. I knew the F numbers meant nib size but wasn't sure about the exact assignment. I think from what you've shown, it's safe to conclude that F1 = XF (extra-fine) and F2 = F (fine). The F2 is most commonly encountered, and indeed, <F> nibs were generally the most popular in fountain pens across multiple Japanese brands. I wondered why they chose "F" plus a number for nib designation, and it makes sense, an abbreviation for Fe, the symbol for iron (ferrous oxide).. the core material used to make stainless steel.

 

Btw, don't know if you got the joke. "Max." In the comedy TV series Get Smart, Max had a sidekick whose name was Agent 99.

The indication on the nib of a Sailor fountain pen, such as F-1 F-7, should simply be taken to mean a stainless steel nib.

For example, the nib on my Sailor desk pen with a stainless steel nib is marked F-9, but has a "極細 " sticker on it meaning XF.

The nib of another stainless steel nib is marked F-8, but draws a line that corresponds to 2, i.e., F.(The nib is not stamped with 2 or other F.)

Please understand that the "F-+number x" on the nib indicates only the nib material, not the writing size. The number is a Product Control Number for Sailor as a manufacturer and has no meaning to the user.

 

On the other hand, a nib with only numbers 1, 2, 3…indicates the writing size, such as XF, F, M, etc.

If you do not distinguish between the two, you will purchase the pen with a wrong nib.

 

P.S..

I understand that there is another meaning to that sentence.

I did a search and saw a partial video of "Get Smart".

It looks like a fun TV drama, I would like to watch it if I get the chance.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Number99

[MYU]

Thank you for the explanation, Number 99. I seem to have completely misconstrued the number system. 

So F[X] designation is a material type? 1 through 9, thus 9 possible different steel materials? I wonder if this has something to do with firmness vs. flexibility. It's also rather frustrating that there's no permanent indication of the nib size (just a sticker), as is customary with other brands (e.g. PILOT uses <EF>, <F>, <M>, <B>, etc.). 

[Number99]

2 hours ago, MYU said:

Thank you for the explanation, Number 99. I seem to have completely misconstrued the number system. 

So F[X] designation is a material type? 1 through 9, thus 9 possible different steel materials? I wonder if this has something to do with firmness vs. flexibility. It's also rather frustrating that there's no permanent indication of the nib size (just a sticker), as is customary with other brands (e.g. PILOT uses <EF>, <F>, <M>, <B>, etc.). 

We could only obtain information from the manufacturer that the F-x label on the nib was a stainless steel nib. (There is also a hyphen in the engraving. I am partially misrepresenting it in my post above.)

No explanation was given as to the composition of the stainless steel.

The only way to determine the writing size of a used fountain pen with this form of nib marking is to identify it by the pen point image if there is no packaging or sticker left.

 

Come to think of it, Sailor Fountain Pen Co. changed the way they display nib sizes on nibs two years ago as well...

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Number99

[Stompie]

Anybody tried this one?

 

I have been purchasing Tom's products recently as he is a local lad and I like to support local but he also has some marvellous innovations with pens/fineliners/fountain pens/nibs etc.