P-45 differences

[Bo Bo Olson]

As a young lad when the original P-45 came out (1960) I remembered the barrel as rounder, more P-51ish. (memory can be faulty and we didn't use our Brownies 24/8.)

I don't know if i had one, but suspect I did (the start of me hating $$$$ cartridges...in they had to be returned sooner or later)  if so; it got stolen in the same year like all my fountain pens in grade 4 to 10th grade when i stopped using fountain pens. (God was I glad i found out how to keep a Bic after only three were stolen...keep the cap between the teeth.)

 

Many decades later, at a German indoor flea market I found two Great Britain/English pens, a semi-flex, Jr. Duofold and the rolled gold cap, P-45 in regular flex....................all three of these P-45s are in regular flex 

I knew I had a black and rolled gold English made P-45.

I didn't know the English stainless steel 'Flighter' was a P-45. I just thought of it as a Flighter.

Yesterday my wife found the smaller French made P-45 Fighter at a house clearing around the corner...........It took me quite a while to find out it too was a P-45.& or the first Flighter was also a P-45.

There is a difference in barrel shape from the black and gold one and the =sizeP-45  flighter.

Are there 'name' differences between the P-45's????

Are there date stamps that can tell when they were made?

 

[Mr.Rene]

There is a code on cap (letters and dots)..usually..this is the date...and Parker 45 has several finishes , USA, France and UK made...Best regards.

[Number99]

The top 45 is a Flighter Deluxe no tassie from 1980-2000, the second is a custom from about 1963〜.

https://parkerpens.net/parker45.html

 

For date codes, please refer to the following link

https://parkerpens.net/codekey.html

 

I don't know about the third (bottom) pen. (possibly a pen with a missing barrel end piece)

The geometry of the Parker 45 fp should be almost identical.

However, there is much mystery about the French Parker.

Be careful about this pen, the nib and feed appear to be misaligned.

I also have a French 45 Flighter (1970s) and it does not have the "45" stamped on the cap.

The nib flexibility is as per the "Spiegel" ad I asked you about earlier, but I haven't been able to update the information since then.

 

Do the nib slits on those pens reach the breather hole?

 

 

Additional Information.

The width of the barrel ends on the P-45 Flighter Deluxe no tassie, Deluxe Jewel and P-45 Harlequin barrel ends is approximately 1mm thicker than on other P-45s.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Number99
Correction of pen model name. Flighter Deluxe to Flighter Deluxe no tassie.

[inkstainedruth]

Interestingly enough, I picked up a 45 Flighter yesterday at an estate sale company's in store sale.  Mine says "Made in England" on the cap, but doesn't seem to have a date code that I can find.  It's not a GT, but I think the nib is gold (haven't had a chance to take it apart to clean it out yet), and the end of the barrel is black plastic, as is the section.  Looks a lot like the top one in the photo of the Flighters on http://www.parkercollector.com/parker45.html in fact (about halfway down the page).  Apparently it's a CT Black Tassie, from the mid-late 1960s.

I may have paid a bit too much for it, but I'm looking forward to writing with the stub-ish looking B nib on it (that nib is what won me over; that and the fact that an old style press-bar converter was already installed... ).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Number99]

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

Interestingly enough, I picked up a 45 Flighter yesterday at an estate sale company's in store sale.  Mine says "Made in England" on the cap, but doesn't seem to have a date code that I can find.  It's not a GT, but I think the nib is gold (haven't had a chance to take it apart to clean it out yet), and the end of the barrel is black plastic, as is the section.  Looks a lot like the top one in the photo of the Flighters on http://www.parkercollector.com/parker45.html in fact (about halfway down the page).  Apparently it's a CT Black Tassie, from the mid-late 1960s.

I may have paid a bit too much for it, but I'm looking forward to writing with the stub-ish looking B nib on it (that nib is what won me over; that and the fact that an old style press-bar converter was already installed... ).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Is the nib also made in England and does the slit reach the breather hole?

If so, do you think there is any flexing in the writing situation of the nib?

Please let me know when the pen becomes available.

 

Correction.

I did not read it carefully. I have an American B nib (Octanium) with a slit reaching the breather hole and its nib was stiff.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Number99

[inkstainedruth]

31 minutes ago, Number99 said:

Is the nib also made in England and does the slit reach the breather hole?

If so, do you think there is any flexing in the writing situation of the nib?

Please let me know when the pen becomes available.

 

Correction.

I did not read it carefully. I have an American B nib (Octanium) with a slit reaching the breather hole and its nib was stiff.

Dunno about the nib yet.  I haven't had a chance to take it apart yet (but IME none of the nibs on 45s I have flex much if at all).   Had trouble sleeping Friday night, so just decided to stay up all night, and left for the sale around 6 AM, thinking it started at 8 AM (turned out it didn't open till 9 ).  Then went to what turned out to be mostly a garage sale (no pix -- it was a family run thing).  Got home around 10:30, and then talked my husband into going out for breakfast (in my case, "second breakfast" ).  Got home close to noon, and then spent half the afternoon sleeping....

Today I slept in, and have mostly been doing laundry and trying to catch up on NaPoWriMo since then (I wasn't coherent enough to do yesterday's prompt on Saturday, and am still trying to figure out today's prompt, which is to write a "palinode" -- a poem retracting a view or sentiment in an earlier poem....  I did write a different poem, but still want to challenge myself as well.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

Poetry in a form (some 13-18 or was that 27?), is the greatest challenge. I admire Robert Frost, who was so good you don't notice the forms he was using. Don't sound poetic when read. One of his more well known poem took him 12 years.

................
 

14 hours ago, Number99 said:

The top 45 is a Flighter Deluxe from 1980-2000, the second is a custom from about 1963〜.

All three nibs, the two 14k from England and the 'gold colored' French one , the slit reaches the breathing hole. All are M's, which is just fine, I've gone over to liking M's a lot........even getting two M's in two of my last four 200's, which is the only pens I buy new outside of a couple on Sale pens.

Too cheap to buy new.

 

The top Flighter Deluxe is from 1980-2000....checked the link....

"""the second is a custom from about 1963〜""" or perhaps some sort of Insignia 1965 version, in the cap and trim is rolled gold..

The reason the bottom French Flighter is shorter is, it if a Flighter Deluxe from '65-69 with a broken off tassie.

Helps to use one's eyes.

14 hours ago, Number99 said:

The nib flexibility is as per the "Spiegel" ad I asked you about earlier, but I haven't been able to update the information since then.

All three appear to be @ the springy regular flex of a Pelikan 200 and or a Pilot soft nib, if one don't have the 200. Other regular flex nibbed pens...Wearevers, some Esterbrooks. The Sheaffer sub brand Crest. Geha piston school pen...

Any that will give a 3X tine spread vs a light down stroke...When Well Mashed.

And I can't find any date marks, so will need to have my nose stuck on it.

 

I do like regular flex nibs and in M, so I have two other pens to use.

 

[joss]

Bo Bo, next to the Parker Collector website there is also interesting info on the different P45 models here:

https://parker45pens.com/models/

https://pencollect.co.uk/parker45.htm

 

[Number99]

 

On 5/2/2023 at 12:08 AM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Poetry in a form (some 13-18 or was that 27?), is the greatest challenge. I admire Robert Frost, who was so good you don't notice the forms he was using. Don't sound poetic when read. One of his more well known poem took him 12 years.

................
 

All three nibs, the two 14k from England and the 'gold colored' French one , the slit reaches the breathing hole. All are M's, which is just fine, I've gone over to liking M's a lot........even getting two M's in two of my last four 200's, which is the only pens I buy new outside of a couple on Sale pens.

Too cheap to buy new.

 

The top Flighter Deluxe is from 1980-2000....checked the link....

"""the second is a custom from about 1963〜""" or perhaps some sort of Insignia 1965 version, in the cap and trim is rolled gold..

The reason the bottom French Flighter is shorter is, it if a Flighter Deluxe from '65-69 with a broken off tassie.

Helps to use one's eyes.

All three appear to be @ the springy regular flex of a Pelikan 200 and or a Pilot soft nib, if one don't have the 200. Other regular flex nibbed pens...Wearevers, some Esterbrooks. The Sheaffer sub brand Crest. Geha piston school pen...

Any that will give a 3X tine spread vs a light down stroke...When Well Mashed.

And I can't find any date marks, so will need to have my nose stuck on it.

 

I do like regular flex nibs and in M, so I have two other pens to use.

 

I misstated the model name of the pen at the top. The correct name is Flighter Deluxe no tassie.

 

Adding the three in your pen, I have found that the slits on all of the approximately 10 European Parker 45 nibs that I know of reach the breather hole.

I don't believe this is the case with all European 45 nibs, but I also don't believe this is just a cluster.

 

To clarify the conversation, here is the text of the Parker 45 ad in the West German newspaper Spiegel, as extracted by Google Lens

 

"Patronen- wechsel in komfort: 5 Sekunden! 

Tintenflasche und schmutzige Hände gehören der Vergangen. heit an. 

Elastische, aus- schraubbare Goldfeder,. Präzisions- Tinten-regulierung, Metall-Steck. 

kappe und vieles mehr für DM 14,50 bis DM 50,-."

 

DeepL Translation.

" Cartridge change in comfortable: 5 seconds!

Ink bottle and dirty hands are a thing of the past.

Elastic, unscrewable gold nib,. Precision ink regulation, metal plug-in cap and much more.

cap and much more for DM 14.50 to DM 50."

 

The translation is a machine translation so I am not sure if it is correct.

If anyone can help me with the interpretation of this, I would appreciate it.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Number99
Removed image.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Seems correct to me, but I speak Ami-Deutch....take a sledgehammer and hammer German words into an English sentence.

......................................

Parker 45 DeLuxe – Plastic barrel, shell section and cap with Rolled Gold trims. Introduced in 1967

Parker 45 Custom – Plastic barrel, shell section with a Rolled Gold “insignia” cap and clutch ring. 14K Gold nib. Rolled Gold would suggest early 1970’s onwards but exact dates are unknown.

.................

There are some lines on the rolled gold cap of the Deluxe or Custom.

Gold Trim Flighter “Deluxe” or “GT” versions added a touch of luxury to the range with early pens having gold arrow clips and clutch rings. Models from the 70’s had gold coloured end caps as well, replacing the earlier black plastic end cap. Models from the 1980’s onward lost the plastic end cap altogether as the pen design was simplified for cheaper production.

 

Thank you, Joss for the links. I'll be spending some time there.

[ZeroDukE]

P-45 made in Argentina had a different clip, in the P-61 style.

 

 

 

[Number99]

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Seems correct to me, but I speak Ami-Deutch....take a sledgehammer and hammer German words into an English sentence.

......................................

Parker 45 DeLuxe – Plastic barrel, shell section and cap with Rolled Gold trims. Introduced in 1967

Parker 45 Custom – Plastic barrel, shell section with a Rolled Gold “insignia” cap and clutch ring. 14K Gold nib. Rolled Gold would suggest early 1970’s onwards but exact dates are unknown.

.................

There are some lines on the rolled gold cap of the Deluxe or Custom.

Gold Trim Flighter “Deluxe” or “GT” versions added a touch of luxury to the range with early pens having gold arrow clips and clutch rings. Models from the 70’s had gold coloured end caps as well, replacing the earlier black plastic end cap. Models from the 1980’s onward lost the plastic end cap altogether as the pen design was simplified for cheaper production.

 

Thank you, Joss for the links. I'll be spending some time there.

All this time I thought it was an open question as to the correctness or incorrectness of that translation.

Anyway, it was good.

Thankyou!

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Number99
Cancellation of image addition.

[inkstainedruth]

8 hours ago, joss said:

Bo Bo, next to the Parker Collector website there is also interesting info on the different P45 models here:

https://parker45pens.com/models/

https://pencollect.co.uk/parker45.htm

 

Thanks for the links -- the first one in particular helped me narrow down the new-to-me Flighter as being 1964-70 production (between the black end cap and the style of the cap tassie).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

Grumble Squared, now I have to look on German Ebay....in there are more  and prettier 45's than I thought....and the French or British ones have regular flex nibs. A nice springy flex rate that gives a comfortable ride.

Stateside ones ...nails? or Semi-nails like the P-75?

 

Any one know where I can get the rear black/any color plastic tassie for the broken ended Flighter?