New carbon/pigment ink set to dethrone Platinum Carbon Black?

[A Smug Dill]

https://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/news/11719/

https://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/news/11708/

 

Source: K. Itoya

 

Source: Platinum Pen (Location shown is inside K. Itoya store)

 

I cannot get more discernible detail by zooming in, but could it be that the column of grey-to-black on the advertising poster is showing where Platinum Carbon Black ink's level of blackness sits relative to the new Platinum Chou Kuro ink?

[TSherbs]

looks like it is sold in that box with a big bottle of flush. Is that meant to be trust-inspiring? 😁

[A Smug Dill]

  On 4/24/2023 at 1:55 PM, TSherbs said:

a big bottle of flush

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The labelling neither states nor suggests the contents of that bottle is anything other than water.

專用洗淨水: Water reserved for cleaning (DeepL) (Google)

精製水: Purified water (DeepL) (Google) 

[TSherbs]

  On 4/24/2023 at 2:49 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

The labelling neither states nor suggests the contents of that bottle is anything other than water.

專用洗淨水: Water reserved for cleaning (DeepL) (Google)

精製水: Purified water (DeepL) (Google) 

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that's awesome

 

more akin to bidet or nasal flush, then

[AceNinja]

I'm most interested in what's the water in the bottle.  Have heard a few podcast talking about it, but non is conclusive at the moment.  I would assume that it's just a distilled water.  Because the cleaning instruction says avoid using tap water to clean the ink out due to the minerals will make the ink staining, and also that you can also get the water from drug store.  So that bottle of water is without mineral, which means, should be just a distilled water?

[A Smug Dill]

  On 4/25/2023 at 12:51 AM, AceNinja said:

So that bottle of water is without mineral, which means, should be just a distilled water?

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There's demineralised water, deionised water, etc. Distillation is a specific process.

 

It's not that easy getting distilled water in, say, supermarkets in Australia, the way I understand it is in the US, or, as I remember it from three decades ago, Hong Kong. Here, in supermarkets you can only typically buy demineralised water (which may or may not have been produced by distillation, although in all likelihood filtration is the primary process used).

[sketchstack]

The literature that came with the ink indicates that tap water may encourage staining.

 

I can attest to the new ink being darker, esp. compared to the regular Carbon Black, which reflects a lot of light. Carbon Black has always reminded me of very densely applied graphite (pencil) in that it's shiny. Whereas the new Chou Kuro would be more like charcoal in that it's matte, non-reflective. 

 

 

 

 

[Horseflesh]

  On 4/25/2023 at 1:12 AM, A Smug Dill said:

It's not that easy getting distilled water in, say, supermarkets in Australia, the way I understand it is in the US...

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US grocery stores are almost certainly selling reverse osmosis water, not distilled. 

 

It's close enough for all but the most exotic purposes, anyway. 

[AceNinja]

now come to think of it, most of the marketing material for this Chou Kuro, they compare to platinum carbon black (PCB) as being more black than PCB.  But I think they never mention if it is more water proof / resistant when compared to PCB?

 

So the question: Platinum Chou Kuro, while marketed as being more black than PCB, and is also water resistant.  But does it resist water better than PCB?

[ridiculopathy]

@sketchstack, thanks for the video comparison! I want to try this ink, even though I am not the target audience for it (Aurora Black is probably enough for my usage). I love how experimental Platinum is [out of the Big 3]. 

[Mayo]

Really want to get some of this ink, for the same reasons I wanted to get Pilot Twsuwairo back when that came out (if it was not for the availability issues with that, in my case). My only issue with carbon black it's that for some applications it's too shiny. It does help to sell the 'carbon' name, but I think i'll still prefer this new one.

[A Smug Dill]

  On 6/20/2023 at 6:37 AM, AceNinja said:

But does it resist water better than PCB?

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Considering that Platinum Carbon Black is already almost completely waterproof for most intents and purposes, what does better mean?

 

Now that I have tried many different pigment inks from various brands, one thing is clear: if you rewet the page (or card), after marks made from waterproof inks on it have dried completely, you can smudge the marks to an observable degree, with the application of friction. One cannot expect all of the insoluble nano particles to get lodged inside the paper fibres, or become chemically or physically fused with them. Anything that is ‘bonded’ to the sizing (i.e. coating) or surface layer can be dislodged, especially if the sizing is compromised (e.g. by sufficient exposure to water) or there is microscopic damage to the surface layer from abrasion (e.g. with one's fingertip, or even bristles on a paintbrush).

 

Thus, I've concluded that the criteria for waterproofness must exclude abrasion.

 

In my testing, nothing will come off ink marks made with Platinum Carbon Black if the piece of paper is dumped into a bath of clean water; and even after soaking for a day, if I fish it out and then lay it (gently!) to dry face-down on a sheet of paper towel, nothing will observably get transferred from the ink marks onto the paper towel. (Rubbing the ink marks with the paper towel to dry the paper surface would be a different matter, as would tracing the marks with my fingertip.)

 

So, how does any ink get better at resisting water than that?

[AceNinja]

  On 6/23/2023 at 12:54 AM, A Smug Dill said:

Considering that Platinum Carbon Black is already almost completely waterproof for most intents and purposes, what does better mean?

 

So, how does any ink get better at resisting water than that?

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The question can apply both way, so let me tweak my question a little:  does Chou Kuro has the same level of waterproofness (or better/worst) as the platinum carbon black?

[sketchstack]

There are two notions of permanence when it comes to waterproof fountain pen inks: 

1. Preservation: Written marks / words / drawings are retained after contacting moisture or water.
2. Artistic: Withstanding friction when painted over with a brush, such as with water colors. 

Many inks, even those not described as "permanent" hold up, to varying degrees, to #1. 

 

I have yet to see any fountain pen inks that satisfy #2. Some inks come close, but they need to be 100% effective to qualify. India ink, which we all understand (I hope) to be incompatible with non-safety fountain pens, is the standard against which this is measured. 

 

Now, to answer the question regarding Platinum Carbon Black vs this new Platinum Chou Kuro: They are the same in terms of #1 (encountering moisture). I have not tested #2, the artistic application, as I see no reason the new ink would be an improvement and in fact it may be worse due to even more particles sitting "on top" of the page. 

 

 

[sketchstack]

  On 6/23/2023 at 12:20 AM, Mayo said:

... I wanted to get Pilot Twsuwairo back when that came out (if it was not for the availability issues with that, in my case)....

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Twsuwairo is hard to find outside of Japan, in my experience, but even after shipping costs it may not be a terrible option to the new Platinum Ink. 

 

Tswuairo = ~$8 US for 30ml

Platinum Chou Kuro = $60 US for 60ml

 

I'm not suggesting it's 1:1 after shipping costs are factored in but the pricing is so disparate that the Pilot ink may still make sense in certain case (such as adding a bottle into an existing order). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

  On 6/28/2023 at 5:12 PM, sketchstack said:

Twsuwairo is hard to find outside of Japan, in my experience,

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Aside: In Australia, at least LarryPOST in Sydney and Bookbinders Design in Melbourne (both of which are bricks-and-mortar retail stores, that also take online orders) carry Pilot Tsuwairo inks.

[Frank C]

I just ordered two bottles of each color from Stilo & Stile in Italy. The total with shipping by mail was €76.42. $83.45 at today's exchange rate. They said that it will arrive in 14-25 days to the USA. I'll keep you informed. I ordered two bottles of each because I have to share with my local ink aficionado, @amberleadavis. If she likes a bottle of ink that I show her, I never get it back. I do get something in return, so it is not a total loss. 

 

[Mayo]

  On 6/28/2023 at 5:12 PM, sketchstack said:

 

Twsuwairo is hard to find outside of Japan, in my experience, but even after shipping costs it may not be a terrible option to the new Platinum Ink.

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I've almost got it on Stilo&Stile a few times, but never really ordered anything from there after tsuwairo got released. Still will add one bottle for sure next time I do, though.

 

The Chou Kuro bottle might be $60 now but it will surely be at least a bit cheaper when the normal version without the limited edition add-ons becomes available. It will probably take a good while, but maybe next year. I guess until then I can live with the many barely-used bottles of black ink I already have, lol.

[Frank C]

  On 6/28/2023 at 6:43 PM, Frank C said:

I just ordered two bottles of each color from Stilo & Stile in Italy. The total with shipping by mail was €76.42. $83.45 at today's exchange rate. They said that it will arrive in 14-25 days to the USA. I'll keep you informed. I ordered two bottles of each because I have to share with my local ink aficionado, @amberleadavis. If she likes a bottle of ink that I show her, I never get it back. I do get something in return, so it is not a total loss. 

 

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 I just checked my credit card, the total was $83.90, not bad. I changed one of my accounts to a "travel card", something I learned about here on FPN. They don't charge fees on foreign currency exchanges or foreign transactions. I'll wait until the ink arrives now. 

[sketchstack]

  On 6/30/2023 at 3:39 AM, Mayo said:

...

The Chou Kuro bottle might be $60 now but it will surely be at least a bit cheaper when the normal version without the limited edition add-ons becomes available....

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So far everything that I've come across indicates that a lower price is not on the horizon. Rather, the limited edition accessories are "early adopter" bonus goodies and the regular release will simply omit those items with no difference in price.

 

I'm not sure I've seen this declared outright but I'm looking into the nuances of information and statements made from retail partners. 

 

I should hope they ditch the packaging for the regular release. Felt ridiculous pulling a bottle of ink out of a relatively huge cardboard box.