Help with Sheaffer Vacuum Filler packing unit.

[sandrinio]

Hi,
I'm restoring the Sheaffer vacuum filler (for myself). I'm looking to buy the packing unit rebuild kit (seals and washers) and also looking for the plunger rod seal. These - I understand.
I'd appreciate if you help me with the following:
I managed to knock the rubber seal out the other side of the packing unit, inadvertently making the packing unit hole larger (oops, I attached the photo for reference). I'm trying to figure out if just using the packing unit seals suffice for creating a good seal and holding the rod, or I need to replace the packing unit (which I can't find online so far), or I need to come up with a DIY solution to narrow the hole to hold the rod more securely. Any advice would help.

 

Thanks in advance

[Ron Z]

How much bigger than the rod is the hole?  That's just a hole for the rod to pass through.  The sealing is done with the 0-ring, which fits into a 1/4" diameter hole.  There may be some play, but as long the 0-ring fits tightly at the inside end, you should be OK.  If not you'll have to drill out, glue in a plug and drill a clearance hole for the rod.  Tough to do without a lathe.  You aren't likely to find packing units on line.

 

Dale Beebe at Pentooling.com sells the 0-rings and retaining washers, as well as the tool that makes it easy to put them in place.  You'll find the head gaskets and thread sealant on my website.  Head gaskets are withing 1 thousandth of an inch of the thickness that Sheaffer used, thread sealant made using their formula.

[FarmBoy]

I do it the hard way from inside the barrel.  I drill out the packing from the bottom and install a new one.

Suppose you could harvest a complete barrel insert and migrate it to solve the issue.

 

FB

[sandrinio]

7 minutes ago, FarmBoy said:

I do it the hard way from inside the barrel.  I drill out the packing from the bottom and install a new one.

Suppose you could harvest a complete barrel insert and migrate it to solve the issue.

 

FB

That's what I was doing - trying to pull the old seal out from inside the barrel but, I guess, pushed too hard and ended up on the other side. Didn't even use the drill, was doing it by hand.

[sandrinio]

33 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

How much bigger than the rod is the hole?  That's just a hole for the rod to pass through.  The sealing is done with the 0-ring, which fits into a 1/4" diameter hole.  There may be some play, but as long the 0-ring fits tightly at the inside end, you should be OK.  If not you'll have to drill out, glue in a plug and drill a clearance hole for the rod.  Tough to do without a lathe.  You aren't likely to find packing units on line.

 

Dale Beebe at Pentooling.com sells the 0-rings and retaining washers, as well as the tool that makes it easy to put them in place.  You'll find the head gaskets and thread sealant on my website.  Head gaskets are withing 1 thousandth of an inch of the thickness that Sheaffer used, thread sealant made using their formula.

The hole is bigger than it was  I think there was either a thin plastic insert with the rod size hole or a piece of the packing unit that broke off - still not sure how exactly. No piece looks broken - it all looks factory made. Yes, I gotta buy a few other things from Dale as well, got a few other pens, so compiling a list of everything I need.
I guess I'll follow the general repair guide - seal, washer and gasket - and see if it holds the vacuum. Thanks for letting me know about the gaskets on your website.

[Ron Z]

You have to drill out the inside end of the barrel.  Take a look at this cutaway view of a plunger filler.  There is a disc that goes across the barrel that is the diameter of the packing unit, then the packing unit with the stacked discs of rubber and grease impregnated felt inside is glued into the back end.  The disc keeps the packing material from coming out, which means that you can not just pull the packing material out from the inside.  Drilling through that disc lets you push the packing material out, and push the new 0-ring and retaining washer in.  Not that the retaining washer has to be glued or solvent welded in place.

[sandrinio]

That makes sense, thanks. It should be mostly, if not all, drilled out by now and all the material is out. What would be used for gluing the washer in? I've read yes and no about acetone.

Just to make my original question clearer - I used your cross-cut image of the unit. The transparent red markings show the piece/pieces that somehow got detached off the packing unit. The outside threading where the cap goes is still there.

[es9]

10 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Not that the retaining washer has to be glued or solvent welded in place.

Do you ever glue (rather than solvent weld) the retaining washer in when replacing the packing materials from the front of the barrel? I’ve never been able to figure out a way to get epoxy in the right place without smearing it all inside the barrel.  Thepensmith.com.au sells a tool that ostensibly helps with this, but I can’t figure whether it would actually work. I’ve thought about trying to make something similar out of a length of brass tubing and a chopstick. But I think I’d just end up gluing the retaining washer to the o-ring. 

[Ron Z]

I do.  I don't ever drop the solvent in the barrel after putting the washer in place because I've had a number of them pop loose.  I apply the bonding agent to washer and then tap it home.  Dale Beebee  at pentooling.com sells a tool  (RZ1) that I came up with back in 2007 when I started on these.  One end holds the 0-ring, and the other the washer.  Maybe I have steadier hands than other people, but  I find that enough to guide the pieces down to the end of the barrel.  IF I get a smidge on the barrel (and that's almost never) you can just wipe it off with a long swab.  I've never had a problem with this.

 

BTW, I don't get anything from Dale.  I decided years ago that people who want to repair these pens need the tool, and I had no intention of ever making them or having them made, so I gave him the design.  Well worth the money, and you'll agree when you use it.

[es9]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:55 AM, Ron Z said:

I apply the bonding agent to washer and then tap it home.

Do you use two-part epoxy? 
 

On 4/11/2023 at 7:55 AM, Ron Z said:

IF I get a smidge on the barrel (and that's almost never) you can just wipe it off with a long swab. 

Just a dry cotton swab, or do you use a little—*gasp*—alcohol? I tried the epoxy approach on two pens. The first had a pretty wide barrel, so no issues. The wartime triumph, however, was a tougher customer on account of how narrow the barrel is. 

[Ron Z]

I've got news for you.  Anything that has a Triumph nib uses the small head gasket.  Valiant to Tuckaway, and the smaller Balance pens.  Only the standard size Balance uses the middle size, and only OS pens the large one.  There's a reason why I sell 14 small to 4 medium and 2 large head gaskets.

 

Dry swab.  Even so a swab dampened (vs saturated) used to wipe off the epoxy may cloud the surface inside a bit, but it isn't likely to damage the inside of the barrel. 

[es9]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:55 AM, Ron Z said:

I apply the bonding agent to washer and then tap it home.

 

Is there any reason one can’t apply the epoxy to the bottom of the barrel before installing the retaining washer? I apparently do not have hands as steady as yours. 

[Ron Z]

I wouldn't.  If  you put the epoxy in the end first, the washer will push it down and in, so could plug the 0-ring.  Putting it on the retaining washer means that the excess will push out. 

 

In either case you can use one of the long handled cotton swabs to wipe off any excess, either from the end or the barrel wall.  A small focused beam pen light will let you see down inside the barrel.