I'm confused.... What is the Pilot CM nib everyone seems to be raving about, and is it as good as they say?

[Mercian]

25 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

I bet both my Bejing Jin Xing 28 and my Jinaho 159 would give it their best effort 🤣  

And I’ll bet that both of those pens are considerably more affordable than are my Parker 75 and my Pelikans 🤦‍♂️

 

😁

[51ISH]

2 minutes ago, Mercian said:

And I’ll bet that both of those pens are considerably more affordable than are my Parker 75 and my Pelikans 🤦‍♂️

 

😁

 

I'm yet to get my first Pelikan, so I can't comment on those.

My Parker 75 is a lovely pen for writing long letters, and is lovely and smooth, but (IMO) it doesn't write 'wet enough' if you want an ink to make a statement or get noticed. It was a gift from my Mom, and the lady in the shop sold her the 75 as 'you can write with it the same as you would a ballpoint' or something close to that. I think that's a good analogy of the pen. Nothing wrong with that of course. I really must get it inked again, it's sat idol for long enough.

[Mercian]

24 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

 

I'm yet to get my first Pelikan, so I can't comment on those.

My Parker 75 is a lovely pen for writing long letters, and is lovely and smooth, but (IMO) it doesn't write 'wet enough' if you want an ink to make a statement or get noticed. It was a gift from my Mom, and the lady in the shop sold her the 75 as 'you can write with it the same as you would a ballpoint' or something close to that. I think that's a good analogy of the pen. Nothing wrong with that of course. I really must get it inked again, it's sat idol for long enough.

Pelikan started out in the 19th century, as a maker of inks.

Like most inks back then, they wrote ‘dry’.

When Pelikan started to make pens - in the 1920s - it designed them so that they would write really well with Pelikan’s own inks. They have always continued to do so. 

i.e. Pelikan pens usually write ‘wet’. Very wet.

I have two examples of their ‘Pelikano’ school pen, one M205, and one Souverän M805. They are all ‘gushy’.

 

I have two Parker 75s. I bought the first one for reasons of family nostalgia. I thought that I wouldn’t like it. I was astonished to find that I actually love it. It’s got an ‘M’ nib on it.

I liked it so much that, within a month, I bought another one (this time with an ‘F’ nib).

If your 75 has an ‘M’ nib, I recommend that you try your Diamine Chocolate in it… ❤️

 

If you want to lay down ink on the page as though you were dispensing it from a firehouse, you should try a Pelikan M1000 (or M1005). Especially one that has a broader nib on it 😁

[51ISH]

4 minutes ago, Mercian said:

Pelikan started out in the 19th century, as a maker of inks.

Like most inks back then, they wrote ‘dry’.

When Pelikan started to make pens - in the 1920s - it designed them so that they would write really well with Pelikan’s own inks. They have always continued to do so. 

i.e. Pelikan pens usually write ‘wet’. Very wet.

I have two examples of their ‘Pelikano’ school pen, one M205, and one Souverän M805. They are all ‘gushy’.

 

I have two Parker 75s. I bought the first one for reasons of family nostalgia. I thought that I wouldn’t like it. I was astonished to find that I actually love it. It’s got an ‘M’ nib on it.

I liked it so much that, within a month, I bought another one (this time with an ‘F’ nib).

If your 75 has an ‘M’ nib, I recommend that you try your Diamine Chocolate in it… ❤️

 

If you want to lay down ink on the page as though you were dispensing it from a firehouse, you should try a Pelikan M1000 (or M1005). Especially one that has a broader nib on it 😁

 

I'm embarrassed to admit I have never inked the P 75 since I 'found this hobby' in around 2009 It's only ever been inked with Parker Quink carts  (like my Parker 25 in my school years.)  I saw a Lapis Blue Parker Duofold Centennial when they were released in '88 in pride of place in a display case in a B&M store, and thought it was the most gorgeous pen I'd ever seen. Not too long later I spotted a work colleague with one. 🙁

[Mercian]

10 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

I'm embarrassed to admit I have never inked the P 75 since I 'found this hobby' in around 2009

😮 You are depriving yourself of joy!

 

If you don’t already have one, I advise you to buy a Parker converter.
And a syringe kit for refilling old cartridges too.

 

TheWritingDesk.co.uk sells both (and of course lots and lots of other goodies too).

 

Hmm.
I appear to be spending your money again. Sorry.

 

[51ISH]

21 minutes ago, Mercian said:

😮 You are depriving yourself of joy!

 

If you don’t already have one, I advise you to buy a Parker converter.
And a syringe kit for refilling old cartridges too.

 

TheWritingDesk.co.uk sells both (and of course lots and lots of other goodies too).

 

Hmm.
I appear to be spending your money again. Sorry.

 

 

My Parker 75 Thuya Laquer Pen Set (I have the matching BP which is also a pleasure to use) came with a beautiful matching converter I'll have you know! 😜  I've got syringes, and small bottles for ink that will take a #6 nib easily for filling with a converter if needed...and a ear bulb ...obviously! I've got a bit carried away I have 6 pens inked at the minute which is too many for me, but I know is a trifle for some around here. Two are the Plumix's (Plumi?) 😁 a No Nonsense and two Chinese pens, so it's not the end of the world.  🤣

[Mercian]

11 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

My Parker 75 Thuya Laquer Pen Set (I have the matching BP which is also a pleasure to use) came with a beautiful matching converter I'll have you know!

😊

 

Here’s a picture of my own Shiny Pens…

 

 

The gold-plated ones are perhaps a teensy bit ‘blingy’… 😁

[51ISH]

2 minutes ago, Mercian said:

😊

 

Here’s a link to a picture of my own Shiny Pens.

Am I doing something wrong ?  Your link just takes me to the end of this thread for me?

[Mercian]

1 minute ago, 51ISH said:

Am I doing something wrong ?  Your link just takes me to the end of this thread for me?

Yeah, I found that too 😠

 

I’ve had to edit it, and insert the picture inside the post, rather than linking to the pics in my ‘Gallery’.

[51ISH]

33 minutes ago, Mercian said:

😊

 

Here’s a picture of my own Shiny Pens…

 

 

The gold-plated ones are perhaps a teensy bit ‘blingy’… 😁

 

I'll give you 50 quid for the bottom one...🤣🤣   The top two are beautiful pens, but not for me. 🤔  You have no idea how many times I looked at buying the bottom one in your photo....I've gone rusty over the last ten years, there were two models that looked quite similar, is that the cisele or 'the other one' Whichever one your pen is, is the one I wanted....or am I confusing it with the Sonnet equivalent?  Kind of 'Spooky' that you like / own pretty much the same pens as me 👻  You have no idea how much time I spent looking at various  Pelikans back then.

Edited March 28, 2023 by 51ISH
typo / spelling

[Mercian]

4 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

is that the cisele or 'the other one'

Mine is an American-made 75 in the ‘Ciselé’ Sterling silver - aka ‘crosshatch grid’.

It has some minor details that mark it out as being one from the mid-late 1970s.

 

That pen in that finish sold incredibly well, and in ever-increasing numbers too, even through the ‘dark years’ of Ballpoint/Rollerball ascendancy in the 1970s-1990s.

When Parker finally stopped making the 75 in 1993, and replaced it with the Sonnet, they made damn sure that they made a Sonnet in this finish (Ciselé Sterling silver crosshatch body & cap, with gold trim), and they are still making them today.

 

It is beautiful, it is a tactile delight, and it writes fantastically as well.

 

I loves it! 😊

[51ISH]

21 hours ago, Mercian said:

Well, you say that, but…

 

Here is my photo of my quick-&-dirty comparison of my least-wide Parker Vector ‘calligraphy’ nib; my Aussie Pilot Metropolitan with its ‘CM’ nib, and; my European Pilot Plumix with its ‘M’ nib…

 

 

This is a quick comparison of any differences in the widths - and in my perception of the widths - of the following ‘stubby’ nibs:

 

1- Parker Vector ‘calligraphy’ set, least-broad nib (no marking);

2- Australian Pilot Metropolitan with ‘CM’ nib;

3- European-market Pilot Plumix, with ‘M’ italic nib.

The ink is Waterman ‘Havana’  - which nowadays is sold as ‘Absolute Brown’.

The paper is Oxford ‘Optik’, from an Oxford ‘Campus’-branded ‘Reporter’s Pad’.
There should not be any ‘spread’ of this ink on this, hard-coated, paper.

 

Although all three nibs look as though they are the same width when the pens are placed nib-to-nib, I find that the nib on the Vector feels (subjectively) as though it is wider than the two Pilot nibs when I am writing with it.
I do not know if this subjective experience is an artefact of the grind-width, or of the greater ‘wetness’ of this nib over that of the two Pilot nibs.

I would say that both Pilot nibs are equally ‘wet’-writing. I.e. that neither of them writes as ‘wet’ as does the Parker nib.

 

The steel of the Parker nib may be slightly ‘deeper’ (in the ‘z’ axis) than the is steel of the Pilot nibs, or the Pilot nibs may be ground to be finer/crisper at their edges, or the Pilot nibs may be shaped slightly, so that their edges do not contact the paper to deposit ink upon it, and that only a central section near their nib-slits does.

I do not have any way to determine this objectively, so I can only report my subjective felt-experience of writing with the different nibs.

 

The italic ‘M’ nib on my European-market Plumix feels subjectively more-crisp than does the ‘CM’ nib on my Australian-market Metropolitan. The ‘CM’ nib feels most-comfortable for me to use when writing ‘normally’ - i.e. without any particular or especial care to form my letters deliberately and correctly.

 

I had hoped that this comparison would provide objectively-useful ‘data’ - but it seems to only add-to the confusion surrounding the nature of these nibs 🤦‍♂️

 

D’oh!

 

Feeling pretty guilty   I tried the Plumix M on a different paper...Bo Bo Olson must have been 'The Paper Whisperer' in my ear. Still cheap 'diary notepad' stuff but smoother. There is nothing wrong with that nib or the feed. Writes as smooth as silk.

[Mercian]

30 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

 

Feeling pretty guilty   I tried the Plumix M on a different paper...Bo Bo Olson must have been 'The Paper Whisperer' in my ear. Still cheap 'diary notepad' stuff but smoother. There is nothing wrong with that nib or the feed. Writes as smooth as silk.

 

Yay!

 

I’m glad it’s worked-out for you 😊

[Mercian]

Further to the widths of Pilot’s italic/‘calligraphy’ nibs:

 

Today I received my Pilot Plumix ‘F’.

On the back of its packaging, Pilot included the nominal measurements of their various grades of italic nib for the Plumix range:

 

 

(‘Large’ in French means ‘Wide’ in English. Or, in the context of nib grades, ‘Broad’.)
 

I assume that the ‘CF’, ‘CM’, and ‘CB’ nibs available on the Prera Iro-Ai range are the same widths as the ‘F’ ‘M’, &’ B’ nibs from the Plumix range.

 

Slàinte,

M.

[51ISH]

13 minutes ago, Mercian said:

Further to the widths of Pilot’s italic/‘calligraphy’ nibs:

 

Today I received my Pilot Plumix ‘F’.

On the back of its packaging, Pilot included the nominal measurements of their various grades of italic nib for the Plumix range:

 

 

(‘Large’ in French means ‘Wide’ in English. Or, in the context of nib grades, ‘Broad’.)
 

I assume that the ‘CF’, ‘CM’, and ‘CB’ nibs available on the Prera Iro-Ai range are the same widths as the ‘F’ ‘M’, &’ B’ nibs from the Plumix range.

 

Slàinte,

M.

 

I pretty sure that's not the case to be honest.  Hence, why I was confused. The Plumix nibs are (allegedly) 'crisper' Calligraphy nibs. (CF CM CB = Cursive Fine, Cursive Med, Cursive Broad)  But like I said...I'm (still) confused...

Edited April 12, 2023 by 51ISH
typo

[51ISH]

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

Further to the widths of Pilot’s italic/‘calligraphy’ nibs:

 

Today I received my Pilot Plumix ‘F’.

On the back of its packaging, Pilot included the nominal measurements of their various grades of italic nib for the Plumix range:

 

 

(‘Large’ in French means ‘Wide’ in English. Or, in the context of nib grades, ‘Broad’.)
 

I assume that the ‘CF’, ‘CM’, and ‘CB’ nibs available on the Prera Iro-Ai range are the same widths as the ‘F’ ‘M’, &’ B’ nibs from the Plumix range.

 

Slàinte,

M.

 

The Plumix Broad is the best of the bunch IMO....

[AmandaW]

A couple of years ago I put together two opaque Prera - a brown and a slate grey - with fine italic nibs scrounged from a couple of Plumix. Filled 'em with Robert Oster Motor Oil and Taccia Ainezu respectively.

 

My other pens are so jealous cos these two get more play time than anyone else.

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, 51ISH said:

The Plumix nibs are (allegedly) 'crisper' Calligraphy nibs. (CF CM CB = Cursive Fine, Cursive Med, Cursive Broad)  But like I said...I'm (still) confused...

 

 

CM on the Prera Iro-ai is expressly a Calligraphy nib. From which (quasi-)authoritative source did you get the C stands for Cursive interpretation, irrespective of what fellow enthusiasts may have ventured in their guesswork, or personal spin to better suit their preferred nomenclature or framework of understanding?

 

4 hours ago, Mercian said:

I assume that the ‘CF’, ‘CM’, and ‘CB’ nibs available on the Prera Iro-Ai range are the same widths as the ‘F’ ‘M’, &’ B’ nibs from the Plumix range.

 

In which markets, and since when, were CF and CB nibs available on the Prera Iro-ai? Pilot's websites pilot.co.jp, pilotpen.co.uk, pilotpen.eu, pilotpen.us, and pilotpen.com.au do not corroborate that CF and CB nibs are, or were, available on/for that pen model.

 

[AmandaW]

5 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

From which (quasi-)authoritative source did you get the C stands for Cursive interpretation, irrespective of what fellow enthusiasts may have ventured in their guesswork, or personal spin to better suit their preferred nomenclature or framework of understanding?

I called it cursive vs italic to attempt to explain what I was seeing through a microscope when looking at the CM and M italic side by side. Obviously I did not do that very well and now find myself put down for my effort. My shame and apology.

 

I will try to photograph it. No idea how.

[A Smug Dill]

22 minutes ago, AmandaW said:

Obviously I did not do that very well and now find myself put down for my effort.

 

I wasn't, and am not, putting you or your effort down. I'm questioning why someone would read the insight and explanation you shared, and somehow thought that the C in CM, as used by Pilot to mark its nib type, actually/officially stands for Cursive. The word from the horses' mouth, so to speak, is that CM is a Calligraphy nib. I'm pushing back against the blurring of the lines between what is authoritative and what is opinion, because I don't want to see other users follow in that professed confusion.