Help identifying pens

[DonnieDarko]

Hello,

Few days ago I was tidying my attic and I found, among my late uncles things, a box with following fountain pens. They have been sitting there for at least 20 years.

I will appreciate any help with identifying, or confirming what I found on web, and also any advice on cleaning them.

 

If you have any links to advice how to clean them, and/or restore them, please link it. Also if there is service they can be sent to (in EU).

Since they all seem to be piston filling pens I intend to fill them with water, hoping it will unclog/wash residue ink and see where they leak.

 

 

 

 

1.

I think this one is Montblanc 146, F (?) tip.

On the piston cap is engraved 146 and F and L(?). This L looks weird, and I could not get good photo of it.

Engraved on cap ring is Montblanc Masterpiece.

On cap is engraved Stahlunion, which, I think, is German company which he used to work with.

There also is small hole on cap.

As far as I can tell, piston is not working, as I could not see any movement through ink window.

Is there any way to repair it?

 

 

 

 

2.

Parker 51 (?), Dove Gray, Vac filling (?), no idea of nib size. How to check for nib size?

Damage on grip section, looks like it was mended with super glue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.

I think this one is Faber Castell Osmia. Under piston cap is engraving 884, EF.

Piston is working.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4.

No idea for this pen. On cap is engraved Germany Rolled Gold.

 

 

 

 

 

5.

This one is a bit strange.

Looks like Montblanc. And I think it is Montblanc 254, OBB engraved on piston cap (Broad nib?).

Cap is friction fit.

But the nib is Pelikan, F. I guess at some point nib was changed. Or is there possibility of some cooperation between Montblanc and Pelikan?

 

 

 

 

 

6.

This one is a bonus one. It was not in box with others.

At first I thought it is fake Montblanc, but at closer inspection I found that there is engraving at the cap – Montblanc No. 12 and according to photos I saw on web it might be legit. What do you think?

 

Cap is friction fit. Nib looks verry clogged. I don't know nib size.

Edited March 6, 2023 by DonnieDarko
Typos

[Bo Bo Olson]

Very fine pens.

 

Your (Osmia)-Faber Castel....could have a maxi-semi-flex, many of the large diamond nibs were so made by Degussa the gold and silver manufacturer  who took over Osmia's nib factory for debt in 1932. Many of the small diamond and mostly numbered diamonds were semi-flex.

883 was the numbering system just as Faber Castel finished up buying  up Osmia in 1950....yours is late '50's perhaps @ very early '60's.,,,

Just before ball points killed off Soeencen and Faber Castel fountain pens.

 

Faber Castel bought it's Graf/Count title in the 1870-90's and let it go to their heads...IMO....Osmia was always a first class pen with out a supply house like Soennecken, MB, Pelikan and later Geha, so was always going broke.

Faber Castel made only second class fountain pens.

They bought up Osmia to have a first class fountain pen....then two years later slowly started erasing Osmia from their pen....First the Cap final...(Osmia did have 4 or more caps and clips,  but one was as famous as the MB snowflake.((, then the name on the barrel and finally the very famous well made nib. The Osmia named clips were no longer used either...The Counts didn't like having Osmia before their name.

 

I have 8 or so Osmias and O-F-C's.

 

Not my pen, but one that impressed the hell out of my spend up to €30 noobie heart some 15 years ago....For only €350. A '30's Supra Deluxe. The one they made to catch Soennecken and MB.,,,,believe it or not €350 was a fortune 15 years ago.

 

The MB 12 looks  similar to the 7xx series of the Geha company.. ,,,,MB use to make a pen for every price class and had a number of sub-brands. That type of nib was very in in the 'mid-50-and 60's.

 

That is a Parker 51....

.

Pelikan used re-branded MB nibs in 1929-32? so that is a nib replacement....it looks like a gold plated 200's or old 120's nib. If it was gold it would say so...14K/585. That don't mean it's not a good writing nib.

I really like the old springy regular flex tear drop tipped 200's nibs.

The old '50's 120's gold plated nib is a good writer also.

[DonnieDarko]

Thank you very much for taking time to write so informative post. I really appreciate it.

Now you got me interested in Osmia. I hope mine will write after cleaning.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Osmia besided the common black and gold pens, also has colorful pens....but like all German pens but Pelikan, color costs more in vintage German pens.

 

But to start chasing, I was astouneded that the price is near what it was 15 years ago...some €60-80 if one hunts the auction section of German Ebay instead of the pay for impatience Buy Now.

It's quite possible you will need to put in a new cork gasket or 2,0 plastic gasket.

In often 1.0 late '30's-1955 are dead or will die on you. But it's a once in your life time and grandchildren's live time cost. Not terribly expensive.

I prefer cork in it is the smoothest gasket if put in boiling oil&bees wax.

 

This is someoen elses picture to show off the large Diamond and or Supra nib.

 

This is someone else's picture to show off the small Osmia diamond, with size number in it.

I have the 62 in black and gold.

 

This is my 540, O-F-C, a '51. The first year '50 Faber-Castel was on the opposite side of the barrel, in '51, they slipped their name into right under Osmai.

Mine has a stainless steel M, and is a maxi-semi-flex.....a flex I discovered years later.

 

I also have Boehler pens.....The Boehler brothers split the Osmia firm in 1938 because Faber Castell had too much to say having bought in some. F_C finished the buy up in '45- or '50 depending on which info one wants. I just know F-C's name appeared in '50.

Boehler 54 Gold full tortoise. (A 54 and a 540 is the exact same pen size.)

 

Two more '38 Boehlers (same model numbers as the Osmia, in the factory was split) Unfortunately the big one just fell apart years later. I have that without the spideweb ink window in same model number Osmia also.

I got over like a big dog, with these two sold in a lot,  in no one 'realized' that era Boehler were Osmias. So Boehler was real no name....even if they lasted into the '70's with school pens.

 

Osmia BCHR.....black chased hard rubber. Osmia had 4-5 finial...top of the pen, and 4-5 different clips.

 

 

A mid 1930's pushbutton Osmia 222

 

 

Maxi is twice as flexi as semi-flex. I have some 35 semi-flex pens mostly German and 15 maxi-semi-flex pens. More than likely over 90% big diamond and or Supra are Maxi.....small diamond is semi-flex.

I was so sure of that....then a poster I respect who has over 30 Osmias and another respectable poster with over 50 Osmiastold me sometimes a small diamond could be a maxi, and a large diamond just a semi-flex.

Either way a fine nib.

 

The stainless steel nibs are just as great as their great gold nibs......and I was a fool gold snob, so missed a number of good pens, because I didn't know how good the steel nibs were....and or was a fool gold snob.

 

@ 1922 the Boehler brothers bought a patent from a Heidelberg professor , for an osmium (rare earth) compound for fountain pen nib tipping that was then and IMO is still superb. Hense the name Osmia.

 

 

 

 

[DonnieDarko]

That's lots of very beautifull pens and I must admit that I had no idea about Osmia brand. Quite impressive history behind them too.

One of my first fountains pens was Faber Castell Loom, which I will never look with same eyes now because Faber Castell seem like bad guys of Fountain pen world.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Was then, not now after a couple more generations, ..........of course that was only to the Osmia fans.

 

If one likes nail nibs, Graf von Faber Castel makes some very fine looking pens..

I don't buy often new pens....it's agaisnt my wallet's religion. But I could send the pen to a nibmeister and have it made at least regular flex.....but I have so many mostly old pens, ......about 100 give or take.

 

I'm cheap, and buy old used pens.....called vintage up to about '70 or semi-vintage...up to the late '90's. IMO the nibs are better.

You should have some nice nibs, regular flex for the 146 and maybe the 12...could be semi-flex for the 12 but  I think that's rare in spade style nibs.

 

You need a 10X good glass loup or a cheap 40X Chinese one, in that is the same strength.

 You have to take your thumb nail and push down the up nib tine  fully below the 'low' nib side, for two seconds, could be three times until the tines are even and you need a loup...cheap Chinese will do....of course you have to buy a new one every few years, where as a $35-40 Belemo is a once in a life time buy. The Belemo is a clearer lens.

 

The 51 is a nail to 97%....and I'm not into them, in that it was a Vac fill, was new to me.   I do have a stripped Parker Vac of the pen generation before the 51.

 

 

Faber Castell ink is well over my €20 limit. Someone gave me a € 20 gift certificate and I added 15 to get some Moss Green ink....nice, but and I am often into green-greenish inks, only nice enough to use once.

I don't remember if it shaded or not. I'm into tow toned shading inks...which need 90g paper outside of Rhoda 80g.

 

There was a short doc U series about the Faber Castel's that I didn't watch....can't watch TV and write....I didn't hate them enough to watch it.....there were some bad ends I believe.

They were making pencils in the era of my 1880's books.

[DonnieDarko]

I used to hate fountain pens with passion till 2018. Last time I used them was in elementary school where it was compulsory. And I have small handwritting and I am left handed. Needless to say, it was recipe for disaster.

So, I went for rollerballs (never liked ballpoints) and never looked back till 2018 when I bought Lamy Safari fountain pen by mistake, thinking it is rollerball (they were on shelf next to each other). It was F nib. Experience was not as bad as I remembered it so I bought FC Loom with EF nib, and I liked it. Then a bit of dissapointment when I found out that EF is really not very standardized in european brands, most of other I tried were wider. So I ended with Pelikan M205 with custom XXF nib which just hit the sweet spot for me, and Pilot Falcon SF nib and Sailor XF nibs. Japanise nibs seem to be more consistent.

 

For people reading this thread in future, I think I identified fourth pen. It seems to be Senator pen (found similar on ebay), and as added clue, which is a bit embarassing, box I found pens in, is actually Senator box. It was probably made for some company which was giving them as gifts for business partners. I tested it with water and it is not leaking, now I ll have to align thines.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by DonnieDarko

[Bo Bo Olson]

I was a ball point barbarian, whose script had become so bad, I had to print....and was getting so I couldn't read my own printing.

 

Pain, fatigue was 'normal'.

 

Fountain pens, especially the 'fore finger up' grip eliminated pain, gave me a light grip inside of three minutes not three months of classic tripod.

 

Someone who could write, who hangs out in the writer's subsection, showed up and showed us the 'forefinger up method of holding a fountain pen.....

 

 

Suddenly no pain, and a light Hand.

If it don't link....cut and paste...........it takes three minutes to learn, perhaps three days to get really use to it, switching from your old grip to the new one.

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

[Paul-in-SF]

Regarding your Parker 51, you have unscrewed the filling system from the barrel of the pen, which is a good thing. If you hold onto those black threads of the filling system, you can then unscrew the blind cap from the filling system, and you have accomplished what is sometimes the hardest part of replacing the diaphragm (which almost certainly needs it). You will need a new diaphragm, there are three sizes, get the smallest size (called Deb or Debutante) (then you need to trim it for length). The only places I know to order them from are in the US, but I'm sure there must be some in the UK (unfortunately no longer in the EU) and maybe in France (Parker had one or more factories in France at least for a while). Pentooling has some good instructions on replacing the diaphragm here: https://pentooling.com/documents/VACUMATIC PELLET REMOVAL.pdf He spends a lot of time talking about removing the old pellet from the filling unit, which is something you will need to do, but it's usually not so elaborate a process. If you have a dental pick or perhaps a large needle that might be enough; don't be too aggressive, the pellet containers were made of ebonite I think. Once you have the old pellet out, go to page 8 of that PDF to view the replacement instructions. 

 

You have some nice pens there, but for my money the Parker 51 might be the best every-day carry fountain pen, once the filling system is working. They just write and write, the cap just pulls off (no threads) and they never seem to dry out. You'll want to make sure the crack in the section (called the hood on these pens) isn't leaking. If there is any leaking, you can probably seal the crack from leaks with a product called Capt. Tolley's Penetrating Sealant. 

 

Regarding nib line width: the only way to be sure is to dip it in ink (or fill the pen) and draw some lines on paper in various directions. Even if you can read the nib size on the nib, there's nothing to say that nib wasn't later ground into a smaller width, or turned into a stub or cursive italic or oblique. 

[inkstainedruth]

  On 3/8/2023 at 7:55 AM, DonnieDarko said:

I used to hate fountain pens with passion till 2018. Last time I used them was in elementary school where it was compulsory. And I have small handwritting and I am left handed. Needless to say, it was recipe for disaster.

So, I went for rollerballs (never liked ballpoints) and never looked back till 2018 when I bought Lamy Safari fountain pen by mistake, thinking it is rollerball (they were on shelf next to each other). It was F nib. Experience was not as bad as I remembered it so I bought FC Loom with EF nib, and I liked it. Then a bit of dissapointment when I found out that EF is really not very standardized in european brands, most of other I tried were wider. So I ended with Pelikan M205 with custom XXF nib which just hit the sweet spot for me, and Pilot Falcon SF nib and Sailor XF nibs. Japanise nibs seem to be more consistent.

 

For people reading this thread in future, I think I identified fourth pen. It seems to be Senator pen (found similar on ebay), and as added clue, which is a bit embarassing, box I found pens in, is actually Senator box. It was probably made for some company which was giving them as gifts for business partners. I tested it with water and it is not leaking, now I ll have to align thines.

 

 

 

 

Expand  

I have a Senator Windsor, which I picked up for a buck at an estate sale company's warehouse sale last August (in a box lid full of mostly ballpoints).  From what I've been able to find out, the brand was made by Merz & Krell, and that company later manufactured some re-issued Pelikan pens under contract because Pelikan no longer had the right machinery (including, apparently, the M120 Iconic Blue).  I didn't know anything about the brand before that, but figured that a piston filler for a buck was worth trying.  It's a lot drier a writer than any of my Pelikans, but isn't bad.

But don't feel bad about the box thing.  A couple of years ago I bought a pen in an Esterbrook box at an antiques mall in Warren, PA -- which turned out to be a Parker Parkette (!) when I opened the box after they opened the case for me.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[DonnieDarko]

  On 3/8/2023 at 5:02 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

Regarding your Parker 51, you have unscrewed the filling system from the barrel of the pen, which is a good thing. If you hold onto those black threads of the filling system, you can then unscrew the blind cap from the filling system, and you have accomplished what is sometimes the hardest part of replacing the diaphragm (which almost certainly needs it). You will need a new diaphragm, there are three sizes, get the smallest size (called Deb or Debutante) (then you need to trim it for length). The only places I know to order them from are in the US, but I'm sure there must be some in the UK (unfortunately no longer in the EU) and maybe in France (Parker had one or more factories in France at least for a while). Pentooling has some good instructions on replacing the diaphragm here: https://pentooling.com/documents/VACUMATIC PELLET REMOVAL.pdf He spends a lot of time talking about removing the old pellet from the filling unit, which is something you will need to do, but it's usually not so elaborate a process. If you have a dental pick or perhaps a large needle that might be enough; don't be too aggressive, the pellet containers were made of ebonite I think. Once you have the old pellet out, go to page 8 of that PDF to view the replacement instructions. 

 

You have some nice pens there, but for my money the Parker 51 might be the best every-day carry fountain pen, once the filling system is working. They just write and write, the cap just pulls off (no threads) and they never seem to dry out. You'll want to make sure the crack in the section (called the hood on these pens) isn't leaking. If there is any leaking, you can probably seal the crack from leaks with a product called Capt. Tolley's Penetrating Sealant. 

 

Regarding nib line width: the only way to be sure is to dip it in ink (or fill the pen) and draw some lines on paper in various directions. Even if you can read the nib size on the nib, there's nothing to say that nib wasn't later ground into a smaller width, or turned into a stub or cursive italic or oblique. 

Expand  

 

Thank you for all the info.

Seems like I will have interesting little project with Parker 51.

I just ordered diaphragm, from UK site. Looks like unscrewing hood from body is also quite hard. Is it glued or just tight screwed?

While I am not sure if I will manage to get it right and even if I do, will I like using it, I am excited for being able to own and thinker with item that is important part of fountain pen history, more so because it is family heritage.

[DonnieDarko]

  On 3/8/2023 at 5:34 PM, inkstainedruth said:

I have a Senator Windsor, which I picked up for a buck at an estate sale company's warehouse sale last August (in a box lid full of mostly ballpoints).  From what I've been able to find out, the brand was made by Merz & Krell, and that company later manufactured some re-issued Pelikan pens under contract because Pelikan no longer had the right machinery (including, apparently, the M120 Iconic Blue).  I didn't know anything about the brand before that, but figured that a piston filler for a buck was worth trying.  It's a lot drier a writer than any of my Pelikans, but isn't bad.

But don't feel bad about the box thing.  A couple of years ago I bought a pen in an Esterbrook box at an antiques mall in Warren, PA -- which turned out to be a Parker Parkette (!) when I opened the box after they opened the case for me.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Expand  

Heh, that must have put a smile on your face.

 

Btw, I just inked Senator, without aligning thines, and and it works. Size is about F, european. It is quite wet writer.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

My mid '60's Senator, that I brought a pound of coffee and got the pen...and the Uhu ink. Uhu is still around as a glue.

There were a number of times I didn't buy a third tier Senator over the years here in Germany. But this was a prettier one.

The Uhu ink that was just given me to the coffee drinker.

The pen is mine, not the picture/box/or instructions.

The pen was repaired..rebuilt inside, at much more than worth...but sometimes one has to leave the world a better place; and not worry about the price of Mammon.

Had I not the ink, the pen wouldn't have drawn my interest enough to know It was a bottom feeder in a live auction lot of pens, but '50's seaweed pretty. 

Still a pretty pen...not use since coming back from repair...there are three such pens, two better names....but sometimes other pens louder.

 

[inkstainedruth]

@DonnieDarkoCool!  

Besides how dry mine writes, especially compared to the Pelikans, the main difference seems to be that (unlike on most -- if not all -- of my Pelikans) the nib unit can't just be unscrewed from the section.  But of course neither can the nib unit on the Parker/Eversharp pen, compared to the nib units on my Parker 45s....

So at some point, I will probably take the Senator to a pen show and maybe have a little work done on the nib (it's not happening this weekend for Baltimore-Washington, because I've already got a bunch of pens in the queue to get checked out/up and running, including the two Snorkels I picked up a couple of months ago at an estate sale company's warehouse sale (most stuff was half off; one didn't have a price on the box, but the other one -- I think it's a Clipper -- I got for $15 US and both might be in their original boxes); just missing the matching (I presume) pencil for the Clipper, but I don't mind.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[inkstainedruth]

  On 3/8/2023 at 6:18 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

My mid '60's Senator, that I brought a pound of coffee and got the pen...and the Uhu ink. Uhu is still around as a glue.

There were a number of times I didn't buy a third tier Senator over the years here in Germany. But this was a prettier one.

Wow, Bo Bo -- that pen is GORGEOUS!  My Senator Windsor is just boring black....  

And no, I am NOT a member of the Black Pen Society -- but when you go hunting through estate sales and antiques shops, you buy what you find.... 

Ruth Morisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Expand  

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

  On 3/8/2023 at 6:28 PM, inkstainedruth said:

I am NOT a member of the Black Pen Society -

Expand  

I resigned a number of times....a great number of times. But color in vintage pens outside of Pelikan costs 1/3 more alt least....

I remember.

and since then 1/2 the pens I bought have been black and gold............I needed the pen, and it was rare 'colored' pens showed up, and when they did...they were well over my budget.

That is what happens when one buys more than one or two than  properly seeked pens a year...

You know ...good to great nibs will do such things to me.

Nib first.....then the rest.

[DonnieDarko]

@Bo Bo Olson

These are beautifull pens.

Regarding UHU ink, I just googled it and someone is selling bottle from 1945. Am I right to assume than that ink cannot go bed? Is yours still usable?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Clipper with out original boxes...

The Wearever boxes were just shipping boxes.

If I buy a pen I get the pictures free in I take the world's worst pictures.

 

Three tailed airplane, the Clipper, Super Constellation. or the plane I spent my toru in the AF on...the EC 121l ater in the answer. Early 40's was the Constipation, later the Super Connie,  1950's planes. Ike's AF one was a Super Connie.

If you look closely...click open a couple times, there is a three tail airplane...Super Connie on the nib.

 

I had a spare with out a nib and my Rupp maxi-semi-flex nib screwed in. That was the nib that was right in the middle between semi-flex and the first stage of Superflex.

The one that led me to discover there was a maxi-semi-flex nib range on German pens of the '70 and before.

 

Naval model of what I worked on, in it is prettier with a prettier picture than the plain gray of the USAF. I did Autopilots...so like a plane with a 'steering' wheel and 4 motors...and sweat on modern fly by wire plains with no autopilot off button. It would fly for 12 hours, those that had to fly 13 had new gray pilots.

[inkstainedruth]

@DonnieDarkoI don't know about that brand (never heard of it till Bo Bo posted about it just now), but as for other brands, it depends....

I've used vintage Sheaffer and Parker ink with no problems at all.  But had the sac for a Pilot Con-B converter destroyed by some vintage Pen-It Blue Black (which was probably an iron gall ink that had gone bad).  I dumped the ink down the drain because the bottle only cost me a dollar in an antiques mall.  

And of course you have to be careful sometimes even with modern inks if they get contaminated with fungal spores (what people on here refer to as SITB -- meaning "stuff in the bottle").

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

Donnie, there are or were folks here with other inks from the 40-30's that worked....

It's a real gamble for IMO something like a Pelikan or Lamy ink.**

I've not tried mine, in right now I'm not into blue.

 

** It has no brag factor like saying I have just used a '40's Parker or Sheaffer ink and it's ...this or that way different from modern in Uhu has no real modern to compare it against.

Some of those old inks that the older posters had were even Carters once the biggest ink company in the world.

 

The bottle look very Pelikan.

Unless you have moeny to burn, I don't recommend chasing it.