new pen day Finally, the new Parker 51. Is it (bleep)?

[Fountain PenDa]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:53 PM, ajcoleman said:

I have two of the new 51's, both with steel nibs, the navy blue and the black. One writes as nice as any steel nib pen I own. One is just a bit off and seems to have a smaller sweet spot than it should, but writes great in the correct position. I pair them each with matching Jotter 0.5 mm pencils. Though they are not up to the standard of the original 51, they are sharp looking and nice pens in their own right, and being a cartridge/converter pen has its advantages. 

My "new" 51 dries up relatively quickly and I would need to rinse it from time to time. But otherwise ok. Not outstanding but ok. It does look sharp for sure. Quality-wise, I think the originals were probably better. 

[Mark from Yorkshire]

Mine was put in storage a while back as I bot bored of it and was swayed by posts on here. I find the pen a bit boring and no better than the vector or hotter which come in at lower price points. It has not made it to the display box just the glass jar on the study desk. The Monteverde Impressa has joined it there as an everyday pen, nothing all that special 

[Arkanabar]

I am disinclined to try it.  For one thing, I already have an aero "51" made in 1954, and it writes like a champ.  For another, the first thing I love about the "51" clones I use is their cap retention system, copied from the original -- a set of six leaf springs inside the cap, that hold the clutch ring.  The new 51 has a screw cap.  The other thing I love about my cheap Chinese "51" clones is that they are, well, cheap.  I use them at work, and nursing can be hard on pens.

[corniche]

Hi all,

 

I like the new 51 well enough. The first one I bought was the teal standard model with the stainless nib. IIRC, I went on to buy all of the original colors in the standard range and the plum Deluxe model. That one came with a pleasant medium stub nib.

 

I don't know if they still do, but the early releases of the Deluxe models had factory stub nibs. Very nice ones, too. Mine is around a .8; so it gives my penmanship a real elegant appearance without being too over the top, like a 1.1+ can often be... and I love stubs.

 

I don't know what they're selling for these days, but if I could get them for the deals I got when they debuted, I'd probably buy them again.

 

I do miss the slip cap of the original, though.

 

- Sean

[51ISH]

Have to say my (Burgundy) '50's  P51 Fine dries out if left unattended for a few days..

 

 

 

 

 

I also have this rollerball.... I forget what it was called ... the refill dried up after a few weeks.....Strangely, I have the same rolerball refill that was 'gifted' to me in a pen at a company conference.  I now recognise it as a  Parker Vector rollerball. Here's the thing,  the refill in the Vector still works as it should....I've not used it apart from to test it still works from time to time over the years.  Here's the thing.... I've concealed the company logo in the photo, but the company was sold in .....1994 ....😲😲😲

 

Maybe the new screw cap was an effort to prevent the pen drying out...I see from the comments this wasn't a complete success.

[Lithium466]

Not really. As the pen is "made in France" (or is it? Assembled or packaged in France, maybe), maybe it's due to the cap having these "gaping" breathing holes, and inner seal cap not being very effective (because of the shape of the section?)?

I haven't used my P51 in a while, but I always said I wanted to find a way to make it seal better..so far I haven't dared trying to disassemble the cap.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

4 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

As the pen is "made in France" (or is it? Assembled or packaged in France, maybe),

The joint Waterman/Parker factory in France still makes some of the Parker fountain pens. I don't know what Parker pens are made in China.

 

I could be totally out of date in I don't collect Parker, but hadn't noticed a Sxxxstorm of threads on Parker moved totally to China.

[Mercian]

13 hours ago, 51ISH said:

Maybe the new screw cap was an effort to prevent the pen drying out...I see from the comments this wasn't a complete success.

Indeed it wasn’t.

 

Parker designed the (new) 51 (as opposed to the vintage “51”, whose trademarked-name includes the “ and the ”) with a screw-cap, which they said was to reduce the chances of the pen drying-out.

 

But then they used the same, full-of-holes, cap-design as they’d previously used on the Sonnet - which is notorious for doing just that!

🤦‍♂️

[Mercian]

On 3/25/2023 at 9:47 AM, Fountain PenDa said:

Quality-wise, I think the originals were probably better. 

The consensus on here is that the original “51”s are far better pens than the new 51s.

 

Some people prefer the ‘vacumatic’ “51”s, because of their huge ink capacity, but I was put off those by the need to replace their rubber sac every few years.

 

I like the ones that have the ‘aerometric’ filler - because it is easy to use, and its sac seemingly lasts for ever.

Parker also (briefly) even made c/c versions of the “51”.

 

They were totally ‘over-engineered’, and one can still find pre-owned ones in great condition for less than the purchase price of a new 51.

 

I recommend the aerometric-fill “51”s from the 1950s, when their bodies were still machined out of Lucite.

If you want to use iron-gall or pigment-based inks, I would not recommend them, because it is very hard to completely clean all ink out of one. Also, their nibs have no ‘flex’ whatsoever.

 

But, if you only want to use dye-based inks, IMO the aerometric “51” is still ‘the ultimate writing machine’ for business use.

[max dog]

Hi Mercian

 

I always wondered about what inks are safe for a vintage 51 Aerometric.  I have a burgundy 51 Aerometric probably from the 50s, and it's sac seems to be in perfect condition still.  Is it safe for any of the coloured dye-based boutique inks? 

 

I ran some MB Corn Poppy red in my vintage Watermna's 52 some years ago and it disintegrated the rubber sac within a few weeks, so I've always been careful what I put in my 51, resorting to only Parker Quink.  

[Bo Bo Olson]

It is my understanding the big hole in the cap of American pens is a Congress law to keep babies from totally choking to death from swallowing a pen top....or something like that.

Folks were complaining about that some 15 years ago when I came on the com.

[Dip n Scratch]

I haven't been tempted to buy a 'new' 51. It is not exactly a 're-issue'. It just has the 'look' of the original. I liked the Plum De-Luxe but would not buy one.

I already have two 51's & a 21 'economy' version. The aerometric filler does render it difficult to purge the pen of every last drop of ink. It just takes an awful lot of water.

There must be millions of original P 51's around. I have to ask whether the new one would have the same durability.

[Mercian]

1 hour ago, max dog said:

Hi Mercian

 

I always wondered about what inks are safe for a vintage 51 Aerometric.  I have a burgundy 51 Aerometric probably from the 50s, and it's sac seems to be in perfect condition still.  Is it safe for any of the coloured dye-based boutique inks? 

 

I ran some MB Corn Poppy red in my vintage Watermna's 52 some years ago and it disintegrated the rubber sac within a few weeks, so I've always been careful what I put in my 51, resorting to only Parker Quink.  

As far as I know (n.b. my knowledge is by no means ‘definitive’) no ink will actually dissolve the ‘pli-glass’ sac of an aerometric “51”.

Support for this belief can be found in the fact that so many of the pre-owned ones found ‘in the wild’ only need to be flushed, and still work perfectly. Whereas pens with rubber sacs often ‘fall victim’ to alkaline inks.

 

However, most inks will stain the sacs in aerometric “51”s.

E.g. I had to get a new nib fitted to my first “51”, so asked for it to have a NOS sac fitted at the same time.

While I have found that Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Noodler's Black don’t stain the sac, to my amazement the ‘safe’ ‘washable blue’ Waterman Serenity Blue did stain my the sac of my “51” 🤷‍♂️

Luckily, my next fill of Salix removed all the traces of WSB 🙂

 

If one is using the pen all the time, the staining isn’t that big of an issue - after all, it’s only like having a converter that has an opaque rubber/plastic sac. And one will soon learn how long a single fill will typically last for.

I have seen people advocate the ‘ritual’ re-filling of one’s aerometric “51” e.g. every Sunday evening, so that it never ‘runs dry’ at work.

 

I though am a persnickety fusspot, and like being able to see how much ink I have left.

I therefore limit my “51”s to Salix, and to Noodler’s Black.
Although I am now thinking of ‘going crazy’, and trying some Parker Quink ‘Blue’ in one. If that ink causes any staining in the sac, I shall try another fill of Salix, in the hope of removing it 😉

[Mercian]

23 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

It is my understanding the big hole in the cap of American pens is a Congress law to keep babies from totally choking to death from swallowing a pen top....or something like that.

Folks were complaining about that some 15 years ago when I came on the com.

I have also seen the holes in Parker caps blamed on EU ‘Health & Safety’ regulations.

But I don’t think that either theory is correct!

 

After all, if some EU law mandated huge air holes in pen caps, then all Montblancs, Pelikans, Lamys, and Viscontis etc would dry-out just as rapidly as modern Parkers do. But they don’t.

It can’t even be a ‘local’ French law, or all Watermans would also dry-out. Waterman is owned by the same conglomerate as Parker, and their pens supposedly get ‘made’ in the same factory in Nantes as Parker’s pens are.

 

It’s just a foible that Parker has decided to put in to all of its modern pens.

I can almost understand it on slip-cap pens, as an attempt to prevent swift-uncapping from causing an ‘airlock’/‘vacuum’, and ‘sucking’ ink out of the nib.

But on screw-capped pens (such as the Duofold and the new 51) the caps’ failure to form an effective seal is (IMO) inexcusable 🙁

[51ISH]

30 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

It is my understanding the big hole in the cap of American pens is a Congress law to keep babies from totally choking to death from swallowing a pen top....or something like that.

Folks were complaining about that some 15 years ago when I came on the com.

 

I wondered if that was the case when I saw the post earlier. I'm not sure if it's the case with fountain pens in the UK but Bic BP pens have had a hole in the cap for years for this very reason.

[51ISH]

5 minutes ago, Mercian said:

I have also seen the holes in Parker caps blamed on EU ‘Health & Safety’ regulations.

But I don’t think that either theory is correct!

 

After all, if some EU law mandated huge air holes in pen caps, then all Montblancs, Pelikans, Lamys, and Viscontis etc would dry-out just as rapidly as modern Parkers do. But they don’t.

It can’t even be a ‘local’ French law, or all Watermans would also dry-out. Waterman is owned by the same conglomerate as Parker, and their pens supposedly get ‘made’ in the same factory in Nantes as Parker’s pens are.

 

It’s just a foible that Parker has decided to put in to all of its modern pens.

I can almost understand it on slip-cap pens, as an attempt to prevent swift-uncapping from causing an ‘airlock’/‘vacuum’, and ‘sucking’ ink out of the nib.

But on screw-capped pens (such as the Duofold and the new 51) the caps’ failure to form an effective seal is (IMO) inexcusable 🙁

 

That would be 'deal breaker' for me on buying the pen. I only have one pen that dries out prematurely (IMO)  It's a Kaigeleu. It's only ever been filled with ink once.

[Mercian]

3 minutes ago, 51ISH said:

 

That would be 'deal breaker' for me on buying the pen. I only have one pen that dries out prematurely (IMO)  It's a Kaigeleu. It's only ever been filled with ink once.

I advise you to look-up the various threads here about the ‘drying-out’ problem that plagues Parker Sonnets, and suggestions for how to fix it.

The cap of the new 51 seems to me to be very similar to that on Sonnets.

 

I have seen similar complaints made about some versions of the modern Duofolds 😕

[dipper]

Here is the current ISO Standard. To read it in full you need to pay. Or view for free the abstract...

https://www.iso.org/standard/81889.html

... and the "preview"...

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:11540:ed-3:v1:en

 

The links above both show the standard applies to pens used by children up to age 14 only. It specifically excludes "expensive fountain pens", and caps "too large to be accidentally ingested".

 

Do these holes actually work to prevent deaths?

Sometimes not, as in the tragic story linked from this page...

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-reason-for-holes-on-the-tops-of-pen-caps-is-surprisingly-awesome

 

The Pilot Varsity / V-Pen has an elegant anti-choking feature. A 2mm diameter hole in the cap top that becomes sealed off when the cap is on the pen. The cap contains a sliding mechanism similar to Platinum Slip-and-seal caps, but with the added on/off safety function included.

 

I can breath through the hole in the Pilot pen cap, but only for 60 seconds. (Tried it just now.) I am in too much distress at that point to continue further. It feels as if I would pass out if the cap was stuck in my throat for a few minutes. I am not impressed by this "safety" feature.

[51ISH]

16 minutes ago, dipper said:

Here is the current ISO Standard. To read it in full you need to pay. Or view for free the abstract...

https://www.iso.org/standard/81889.html

... and the "preview"...

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:11540:ed-3:v1:en

 

The links above both show the standard applies to pens used by children up to age 14 only. It specifically excludes "expensive fountain pens", and caps "too large to be accidentally ingested".

 

Do these holes actually work to prevent deaths?

Sometimes not, as in the tragic story linked from this page...

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-reason-for-holes-on-the-tops-of-pen-caps-is-surprisingly-awesome

 

The Pilot Varsity / V-Pen has an elegant anti-choking feature. A 2mm diameter hole in the cap top that becomes sealed off when the cap is on the pen. The cap contains a sliding mechanism similar to Platinum Slip-and-seal caps, but with the added on/off safety function included.

 

I can breath through the hole in the Pilot pen cap, but only for 60 seconds. (Tried it just now.) I am in too much distress at that point to continue further. It feels as if I would pass out if the cap was stuck in my throat for a few minutes. I am not impressed by this "safety" feature.

 

18 minutes ago, dipper said:

Here is the current ISO Standard. To read it in full you need to pay. Or view for free the abstract...

https://www.iso.org/standard/81889.html

... and the "preview"...

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:11540:ed-3:v1:en

 

The links above both show the standard applies to pens used by children up to age 14 only. It specifically excludes "expensive fountain pens", and caps "too large to be accidentally ingested".

 

Do these holes actually work to prevent deaths?

Sometimes not, as in the tragic story linked from this page...

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-reason-for-holes-on-the-tops-of-pen-caps-is-surprisingly-awesome

 

The Pilot Varsity / V-Pen has an elegant anti-choking feature. A 2mm diameter hole in the cap top that becomes sealed off when the cap is on the pen. The cap contains a sliding mechanism similar to Platinum Slip-and-seal caps, but with the added on/off safety function included.

 

I can breath through the hole in the Pilot pen cap, but only for 60 seconds. (Tried it just now.) I am in too much distress at that point to continue further. It feels as if I would pass out if the cap was stuck in my throat for a few minutes. I am not impressed by this "safety" feature.

 

Blimey.....

 

The links above both show the standard applies to pens used by children up to age 14 only. It specifically excludes "expensive fountain pens", and caps "too large to be accidentally ingested".

 

Wow! Strange wording for a 'Standard'.

excludes "expensive fountain pens", and caps "too large to be accidentally ingested". So, you're off the hook if you have a StarWalker but if you have a Parker Vector you 'erm..... may have a problem.....

[corniche]

Attention all,

 

For those concerned about the cleaning of the Aerometrics... tying them down on a salad spinner tray and giving them a few spins does wonders. The centrifugal force drives the ink right out. That said, I'm still not sure I'd use pigmented inks, but that's me; I know there are members here who do.

 

Just make sure the lid is on securely or you'll be sorry. 

 

- Sean