Which dip pen flex nib writes the thinnest?

[asecsc4]

My answer, so far, is the Gillott 303.

Any others I should consider?

 

thank you!

 

c.

[SpecTP]

I get pretty thin lines with the zebra comic g nibs

[mizgeorge]

The Gillott 170 is finer than the 303 and slightly smoother imo. I think it's possible that the 290/291 may be even a little finer, but they are more fragile. The crowquill 659 is also extremely fine, and holds more ink. 

 

I have some vintage nibs that are even finer, but none are still in production. 

[ajoe]

I like the Brause EF 66

[asecsc4]

2 hours ago, mizgeorge said:

The Gillott 170 is finer than the 303 and slightly smoother imo. I think it's possible that the 290/291 may be even a little finer, but they are more fragile. The crowquill 659 is also extremely fine, and holds more ink. 

 

I have some vintage nibs that are even finer, but none are still in production. 

 

How does the Gillott 170 compare  to the 303 when it comes to flex?

 

thank you

Christos

[mizgeorge]

1 hour ago, asecsc4 said:

 

How does the Gillott 170 compare  to the 303 when it comes to flex?

 

thank you

Christos

 

Definitely less flexible. Which may be why it feels smoother.

[dipper]

Short answer - a "crow quill" pen.

(As noted by @mizgeorge.)

 

Long answer below.....

 

 

Are we talking about dip pens that you can buy new today online and at an art shop, or vintage pens that you can hunt for on eBay?

Many of the pens mentioned so far have names and model numbers that go back over a century (or two!). The factories making a particular dip pen may have changed many times over the pen's period of production.

 

I have a few hundred vintage dip pens, so I rarely buy any more. My knowledge of the nibs that make the finest lines, amongst nibs that you can buy new in current production is scanty.

 

A couple of current production Zebra G and Nikko G pens, bought out of interest, do certainly lay down very fine lines.

 

Old faithful names, like a "Gillott 303", vary greatly over the 100+ years that such pen designs have been in production at various factories. Some 303 modern versions look like cheap bits of roughly stamped tin compared with old vintage 303 pens. I do have a few like that, that were mixed in with much better made examples in job lots of dip pens bought on eBay.

 

The very narrowest lines in my collection of vintage dip pens are all made by "crow quill" pens. Those pens have a body formed as a tightly rolled metal tube. They fit in a special type of pen holder.

Very scratchy, but perfectly useable once you are accustomed to the feel.

Can make lines of hair-fine width.

Usually have a greater pre-loading of the tines than a standard type of dip pen. That means you can apply fairly light pressure and the tines will not open at all. I assume that is by design, so the user can lay down the hair-fine lines without broadening if they happen to press down just a little bit more than a feather touch.

Despite the pre-load, when pressed down intentionally the short narrow tines do open surprisingly wide.

Also the little crow quill pens hold a good volume of ink per dip, as the internal narrow tube form of the pen body acts as an ink reservoir when dipped.

 

According to DickBlick that is still true for current production pens:

Crow quill pens have a cylindrical body that only fit a crow quill nib, which generally draws finer lines than a standard nib.

(Note the confusion, common today, between "pen" and "nib". Traditionally the small metal-flexy-pointy-thing-with-tines was called a "pen" and the holder that it fitted into was called, er... a "pen holder". Then fountain "pens" appeared and language morphed to suit. Retailers who sell both dip pens and fountain pens now have to deal with inadequate language.)

 

https://www.dickblick.com/products/speedball-crow-quill-dip-pen-nibs/

 

The photographs of the Speedball crow quills linked above look to be well made. Bear in mind when viewing the images that the back end of these pens is not the width of a standard dip pen. It is a slim tube only 3mm diameter.

 

Here is an old sketch of mine done using a pen marked "JOSEPH GILLOTT'S SUPERFINE LONG SHOULDER CROW QUILL ENGLAND 850".

Yes, all that text is squeezed onto the shank of the tiny pen!

 

Crow quill pen holder, and the 850 pen included, plus a Zebra G for scale.

 

 

[WalterC]

Browse the nibs at https://www.johnnealbooks.com/category/s?keyword=nibs . As others have already said, try zebra g or nikko g comic nibs, for fine lines try a crowquill nib (and holder). There are many different dip pen nibs still available and you should just try some. 

    Paper makes a difference  in the experience and how fine a line you get. Bristol board used to be recommended for pen and ink drawing because it is very smooth. Try that or a very smooth paper like Clairefontaine.

[Aether]

Leonardt Principal comes to mind for very thin lines and high flexibility, as does most mapping nibs.

[AAAndrew]

The 303, especially vintage ones, is a very fine pen, but you can do better.

 

For modern pens, go for crowquill, as suggested elsewhere. For vintage, some of the small, blue, mapping pens can get even finer. They are also a bit more finicky in that they're easy to spread the tines, but have a limited range of spread, and can easily be over-bent because the steel they are made of is so thin. Examples you can still find include the Esterbrook 354 and 355 drawing pens (Esterbrook also made 354 and 355 pens that are full-sized gray steel pens, not blued, and those are earlier than the others extremely nice pens, so are more expensive. The smaller, blue ones are relatively more common and cheaper. For non-Esterbrooks, if it says "mapping pen" that is a good indication it is pretty fine. Crowquills were also made to be extremely fine. The problem is, by the time you get to the crowquills and mapping pens, the differences may be difficult to differentiate without a very precise microscope. 

 

What is the purpose for which you are needing an extremely fine line?