Parker 61's lost arrow: major reasons??

[TheRedBeard]

While I have read and heard a lot about missing arrows on P61s, I have never heard stories of the people who actually saw their 61s losing the arrow…

 

What are the major reasons of this issue?

 

I have read that too tough inner cap design was the cause on 61s MkIII (c/c ones).

As I have got a few ones I can assume it would be an issue though the arrows on all my ones are still in place…

 

Could the following reasons cause the issue:

- using too “aggressive” inks for c/c 61s (non-capillary ones)?

- too intensive cleaning or polishing techniques? But what’s about NOS pens then?

- physical damage of dropped pens or heavy objects placed on a section?

 

I have a number of 61s (both capillary and c/c ones) but so far so good: all my pens have their arrows in place…

 

If someone of FPN members ever faced losing arrow on his/her 61 it would be interesting to listen what were the circumstances/reasons of that unlucky event.

 

Many thanks in advance to everyone sharing his/her experience on the above matter.  

[inkstainedruth]

That's an interesting question.  But unfortunately I don't have an answer for you.  I have a couple of 61s which came without the arrow on them (which meant that they were less expensive, so good for my bottom line).  I've read lots of posts about people trying to replace the arrows directly or by painting in the space with metallic paint, because apparently the arrows aren't as interchangable as one might think.  (There was even a post I read a day or two ago where someone sanded down the section around the indentation where the arrow would have gone -- I thought that wasn't a good idea simply because of the added risk of cracking....)

One of them I tried to buy a replacement section for, but then it turned out I bought the wrong color so I haven't swapped the sections out; the other (the 61 Flighter) I was just happy to get in ANY condition, since all the other 61s developed cracks in either the section or barrel.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will have an answer for you.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[TheRedBeard]

3 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

That's an interesting question.  But unfortunately I don't have an answer for you.  I have a couple of 61s which came without the arrow on them (which meant that they were less expensive, so good for my bottom line).  I've read lots of posts about people trying to replace the arrows directly or by painting in the space with metallic paint, because apparently the arrows aren't as interchangable as one might think.  (There was even a post I read a day or two ago where someone sanded down the section around the indentation where the arrow would have gone -- I thought that wasn't a good idea simply because of the added risk of cracking....)

One of them I tried to buy a replacement section for, but then it turned out I bought the wrong color so I haven't swapped the sections out; the other (the 61 Flighter) I was just happy to get in ANY condition, since all the other 61s developed cracks in either the section or barrel.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will have an answer for you.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Thank you, Ruth.

I have also heard/read that people tried to attach a replacement arrow but no one confirmed he/she was happy after those attempts. 

Two trustworthy and pretty experienced guys (who have restored a lot of different Parkers) told me that it was actually impossible to reattach the arrow impeccable way... And their advice was, yes, to find and buy a matching section shell.

 

 

 

[FarmBoy]

Old age. 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

Richard’s profile 

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/profiles/61.htm

States that they were heat set

 

between that, and the shrinking plastic… my guess is that’s why they fall out. 
 

soak it in hot water (as people who don’t know they shouldn’t, are likely to do) and you have a recipe for disaster…

 

not that they were in there very well to start with…

 

(meant to post this here…)

[FarmBoy]

Fun fact. The hood marker covers the injection molding pip. 

[TheRedBeard]

11 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Old age. 

Do you mean ageing shrinking plastic of the hood causing the arrow's accidental detachment? 

But I guess it only happens with pens in intensive use because all those NOS 61s I ever came across had the arrows in place. 

[TheRedBeard]

9 hours ago, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

 

Richard’s profile 

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/profiles/61.htm

States that they were heat set

 

between that, and the shrinking plastic… my guess is that’s why they fall out. 
 

soak it in hot water (as people who don’t know they shouldn’t, are likely to do) and you have a recipe for disaster…

 

not that they were in there very well to start with…

 

(meant to post this here…)

Thank you, IThink.

It loos like the most common reason behind this problem. 

 

And on a similar note: I have never heard about lost dots (the ones presented on the hood instead of the arrow) on Argentinian 61s... 

 

[inkstainedruth]

@FarmBoy-- I don't recall noticing any sort of marking or indentation to suggest that's the case for the plastic 61s I have which are missing arrows.  And would not explain that for the Flighter I have either (which I would think would be even more noticeable in metal than in plastic -- except possibly by feel...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[jchch1950]

One Parker 61 signet lost the arrow when I was soaking it water nib down. I didn't notice that it was missing when I trow the water into the drain with the small metal piece in it😪 .

[amk]

Ouch. I feel your pain.

[FarmBoy]

12 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

@FarmBoy-- I don't recall noticing any sort of marking or indentation to suggest that's the case for the plastic 61s I have which are missing arrows.  And would not explain that for the Flighter I have either (which I would think would be even more noticeable in metal than in plastic -- except possibly by feel...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

The hood on a Flighter is the same as the hood on a plastic barreled pen. 
 

 

[John Danza]

I had one get loose once. I assumed it was because of bad gluing or perhaps the plastic shrinkage. A little Crazy Glue took care of it.

 

I would buy the shrinking plastic story. The plastics in the P61 are renowned for being bad. There are two kinds of P61s, those that leak in the section from microscopic cracks and those that will eventually leak. Every one I've ever had did it from cracks that you can't see. The ink weeps out.

 

The Parker 41s do the same thing (the pastel colored ones), but at least those cracks you can see and cover with clear nail polish.

[inkstainedruth]

2 hours ago, John Danza said:

The Parker 41s do the same thing (the pastel colored ones), but at least those cracks you can see and cover with clear nail polish.

Good to know.  

Fortunately, my 41 has NOT developed cracks -- but I also tend to baby it for fear that it *will*.  (That was the pen that was my "Best sumgai EVAH" pen -- found it digging through a shoebox full of mostly click BPs, and mostly ones with business imprints on them at that, at an estate sale a few years ago... and it has a lovely smooth M nib on it to boot).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[amk]

It's really strange. I love the 61, but somehow the engineering is all wrong. How did Parker go from the indestructible, 100% reliable, marvellously designed Parker 51 to the cranky and problematic 61? Did the QC manager quit? or what?

[inkstainedruth]

Good question.  Especially with the really innovative filler system....

(I'm always sort of bemused by the fact that Parker's response to the encroachment of BPs onto the market was the 61 -- the simplest fill system on the planet; whereas Sheaffer's response was the Snorkel -- the most convoluted fill system on the planet....  (Mind you, I have a number of 61s AND a number of Snorkels.... )

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

I have a couple 61s and well over a dozen snorkels. The snorkels IMO have held up better than the 61s.

[inkstainedruth]

Given my experience with the plastic bodied 61s, I'm not surprised.

If Parker had gone with a better grade of plastic for 61s, though, they would have definitely given Sheaffer a run for its money....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

Agreed. The only real problem

with the 61 is the plastic. Oh. And the misery associated with changing inks… 

[Carguy]

1 hour ago, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

Agreed. The only real problem

with the 61 is the plastic. Oh. And the misery associated with changing inks… 

I will agree that changing inks is an issue, but fortunately for me (knock on wood) not a single one of my 61’s has cracked or lost an arrow. I actually usually pass on any I find with no arrow. Recently, I used heat on a red 61, got it apart, and had no issue with the arrow. I guess that’s why I like the 61, but not as much as the 51. 
 

I have a Surf Green and Red 61 inked at all times because they are just fantastic writers!