585 Ideal .. ?

[4810]

Hello, I'm wondering if someone could shed some light on this pen.  It belonged to a family member, however I cannot tell how old it is, maybe 1930s or 40s?

The nib says 585 Ideal on it, so is that the model?

I had to look up the filling mechanism type (lever is new to me) and I'm not sure if it works or if the sac is intact. Is there a way to test it or a way to take it apart or is it not user serviceable?

 

Thank you.

[Mr.Rene]

Your pen looks like a Waterman ink-view model...the number 585 on nib means 14 k. Solid Gold..(585=58.5% pure solid gold to be precise) you can say 14K. or 585.Nice pen...not easy to find and some dificult filler system to repair. Best regards.

[shalitha33]

I'm no expert on these and is very confused :(.

Barrel looks like a Lady Patricia Ink-Vue  (Black lace) from 1930-1938ish to me. But the cap doesn't look like one.
Cant tell for sure what it is sorry :( .

I'm not saying that the cap is not original or anything like that.  There is a picture of a demonstrator pen with the Ink-Vue system in 'Waterman past and present the first six decades' book by Max Davis and Gary Lehrer page 91. But that may be of a silver ray size pen (as the top pen). I think that model is something like 5116 from 1939ish? It might have the coin-stack barrel end though 

I think I have seen the instructions from waterman on how to disassemble these somewhere.  but I highly recommend that you don't follow them. And get it professionally fixed.

I used to have a black lace which I accidently melted while attempting to soften the glue using a hair dryer :(.  
 

Refer to :

https://vintagepens.com/Waterman_Ink-Vue.shtml
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JsnECD1wAUHA9-2EcrQnIf7m5rIqx_Wq/view (1936 catalog from PCA , https://pencollectorsofamerica.org/reference-library/waterman/)
 

 

 

[shalitha33]

 A pic of the barrel end and the clip on the cap might help to narrow down the age of the pen .

[4810]

Thank you everyone for your help. Hopefully these extra photos will help.

 

 

[shalitha33]

Waterman 5116 type 2 Waterman Ink-Vue , with Brown nib.

Check:
http://blog.richardspens.com/PenBlog/Sweepings_from_the_Studio/Entries/2010/3/8_That_bugger_of_a_repair%2C_the_type_2_Ink-Vue.html

[4810]

Thank you. That's an interesting repair story. 

[mimo]

Hello everyone,

I recently came across a Waterman’s Ideal fountain pen, which I believe to be quite special. The pen is golden with a striped design and features the engraving "A.A. 1912-1932" at the rear end. The nib is marked with "Warranted 585 140."

I’d love some help from the community to accurately identify the model and gather more details about this pen. I will be adding photos shortly to assist in the process.

Any information or insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

[shalitha33]

I am no waterman expert and can be very wrong.

I would like to refer to waterman 1925 catalog (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iPIIpjCiXo90qdeHAy2JiA8KPyu0-h86/view) and point to 0552 1/2 v or call it 0552v geometric chain-link pattern 1920s overlay by referring to page 46 of 'Waterman past and present, the first 6 decades' by Max Davis and Gary Lehrer,  but there are few things that doesn't align with it. It might not be what it seems. Are you able to list all the writing on the barrel and cap?

 

I would have expected

- Waterman imprint of the nib side edge of the overlay,

- Engraved band in the cap lip to be wider 

- Barrel end to be folded differently and with model number
- feed is to new for the pen? 

 

there is supposed to be a pen with a differently folded and not imprinted barrel end but I thought only one of those is supposed to exists? https://www.vintagepens.com/morepics.php?id=13162&pics=12&w=0

 

[mimo]

Thank you for your reply and the helpful information!

I have taken a closer look at the pen and would like to add more details:

• The pen is golden.
• On the nib, it says: "Warranted 585 140", along with a small emblem that is hard to make out.
• At the top of the cap, "Waterman’s" is engraved.
• At the bottom of the cap, it says: "Made in France".
• At the very end of the barrel, there is an engraving: "A.A. 1912-1932".

I hope these additional details help with identifying the exact model. Thank you again for your support!

[mimo]

Here some more images:

[mimo]

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