So Twsbi stands behind their product, do they??

[Nellie]

Yup, @Shyahi I'm also unlikely to buy from TWSBI again. From what I've seen they don't seem to have solved that cracking issue entirely in their newer pens, either. They seem to mostly get by on newbies' (including Goulet Pens) hype.

[Doc Dan]

Remember, dealing with East Asians and Southeast Asians one cannot speak to them the same way as one can an American. If you directly point out that they are at fault then you will become the bad guy (I am assuming Taiwan is similar to other countries in Asia with this). Be nice and courteous. A little praise never hurt, either. If they have no parts (most companies discontinue models and don't carry spare parts) then ask them for a solution to help you with your loss. 

[A Smug Dill]

11 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

Remember, dealing with East Asians and Southeast Asians one cannot speak to them the same way as one can an American. If you directly point out that they are at fault then you will become the bad guy

 

As someone born and raised in the Far East, but has since lived in the West — specifically, Australia — for well over three decades, and someone who deals with traders operating out of the Far East (as well as Europeans, Australians, and Americans) frequently “enough”, I'd say the general advice you gave above is quite misguided.

 

Obviously, a softer and more conciliatory approach works better with most, if not all, groups with which one wants to maintain or nurture a healthy ongoing relationship, irrespective of their culture or origin. However, if the context is commercial, and the nature of the dealings is more transactional (but perhaps often repeated), sometimes it's useful and/or more effective to “warn” — expressly or tacitly — or otherwise impress upon the other party that should “hard ball” be played, they don't have the advantage in a situation or the relationship dynamic to prevail in a dispute, or against downplaying their fault and/or disadvantage in their attempt to minimise the remedy required to “make things right”.

 

Sure enough, I've had Chinese and Japanese traders refusing to do business with me again (i.e. by blacklisting me as a customer on AliExpress and/or eBay), after I've won disputes against them and got the full measure of “resolution” I sought for each transaction. But I absolutely can be very direct with them and still get my demanded outcome in the first instance, notwithstanding that they're from the East Asia.

 

I'm equally direct with Europeans, Australians, and Americans; and I've come across Australian and American traders who baulk, and treat it as equally as grave an affront, when I was blunt and played “hard ball” (and won). Hell, one of my direct supervisors at work (once upon a time) — an old Caucasian guy who liked to say, “in my 35 years as a manager”, if that matters — point-blank refused to talk to me for about three weeks, after I played “hard ball” and won; and my career hasn't suffered for it (and he even helped me later, a couple of years down the track).

 

You absolutely can take an adversarial stance and be direct, if the priority is to prevail today never mind that the relationship suffers tomorrow; or you want to emphasise and reinforce a relationship dynamic the other party doesn't like (but you do), even if they're from the East, as long as you're prepared to stay adversarial, such that (if there are) any future dealings may only be grudgingly accepted, and only have a “relationship” for as long as it takes for the other party to get out.

 

For what it's worth, >90% of the traders I've won disputes against — either “softly” or heavy-handedly — are still “happy” to deal with me today. Money and profit likely provide the motivation for them, not ego, not how much leverage (often mistaken for “respect”) they ought to have.

[Particular_Song3539]

12 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

Remember, dealing with East Asians and Southeast Asians one cannot speak to them the same way as one can an American. If you directly point out that they are at fault then you will become the bad guy (I am assuming Taiwan is similar to other countries in Asia with this). Be nice and courteous. A little praise never hurt, either. If they have no parts (most companies discontinue models and don't carry spare parts) then ask them for a solution to help you with your loss. 

 

In another setting, another platform, what you have mentioned could be viewed as racism. (I am not saying you are)
As someone who born, grown up and living in Asia, I do not agree that Asian cannot take criticism.  Overall, Asian can be very straight forward, blunt and maybe even rude. 
A lot of Asian (especially the older generation) also talk loudly, vividly with huge body gesture, so you may feel that they were angry but usually they are not.
I don't think there is anything wrong to point out the product flaws and problems of TWSBI to them. As long as the statement is true.
If they do not want to hear, that is their problem, and eventually FP users would take their business elsewhere.

[Doc Dan]

This is certainly NOT racism. That is an insult and isn't warranted. However, thank you for proving my point.

 

I live in SE Asia and am married to a SE Asian. I have worked in several countries and I have many students and many friends from Asia. It is a cultural difference. There are times when being blunt and even forceful are warranted. However, most of the time I find that doing so makes one the bad guy, even if one is in the right. I have found it best to approach it more softly and people respond better. Only when no satisfaction is forthcoming should one be forceful and after getting satisfaction one might find themselves unwelcome. I am well aware that there are times when force is necessary and I've had to do such unpleasant things. However, I was speaking above in generalities and in some cultures it is best to start out soft and blameless. Relationship is important. 

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, Particular_Song3539 said:

what you have mentioned could be viewed as racism. (I am not saying you are)

2 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

This is certainly NOT racism. That is an insult and isn't warranted. However, thank you for proving my point.

 

?

 

2 hours ago, Doc Dan said:

in some cultures it is best to start out soft and blameless. Relationship is important. 

 

But who exactly is accusing or insulting you, when @Particular_Song3539 has stated expressly and preemptively that she is not labelling or blaming you, regardless of how you feel (right now or in response)?

 

Or did you just mean that would be an insult that nobody has offered, and you don't actually feel insulted by the discussion of what could be viewed as racism?

[txomsy]

I didn't want to interfere, but...

 

We should all draw a line between racism and cultural differences, specially when judging both the actions and the posts of others.

 

In all societies, all behaviors exist and fight for survival. Some societies favor some strategies over others, or at least, that has been my experience (anecdotes later).

 

Now, this also applies to normal expression, but in addtion, in all societies people does not speak the same language. This makes it very difficult to express oneself when trying to convey these differences in a non-native language (that's -partly- why I make so long posts).

 

In other words, we should try to raise our tolerance levels and our politeness in all circumstances when we go, or e-go  (physically or electronically) outside our home (and even inside) to avert trouble. Both in economic and forum transactions. And think twice (or count up to ten) before being drawn by the heat of the moment. 

 

We wouldn't have had Diplomacy for thousands of years if it were easy.

 

And the anecdotes:

 

I was once coordinating an intercontinentnal research project. One day a friend took me apart to tell me I should improve my relationship with members in a different continent. It turns my way of addressing them, which would be courteous and polite (even sometimes excessively) in Europe, was perceived as blunt, unpolite, irrespectful and careless over there. And they were too polite to tell me directly.

 

That reminded me of my first work in primary assistence in what was considered a fringe small town. After my first patients, the nurse took me apart to let me know that I should expend some 5 minutes of smalltalk with patients before asking about what brought them to the consult. Something that in a major capital with overloaded assistence would have been considered an unthinkable waste of time and resources and an offense to other (impatient) patients waiting in queue.

 

But I have also had to play hardball when some unconsiderate directive tried to coerce me into doing what I shouldn't. Here, though, playing hardball with excess politeness always gave me better results than just getting into a confrontation (judging by the results obtained by others). 

 

Lesson? Draw your own one. Me, in both cases adjusted my behavior because I expected it to improve my personal returns, efficiency and comfort. And when plying hardball I extreme politeness to set me apart from the other side and not give them an inch to complain. That has worked generally for me. YMMV. 

[AmericanMonk]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:03 AM, Doc Dan said:

Remember, dealing with East Asians and Southeast Asians one cannot speak to them the same way as one can an American.

 

Imagine a moment where your wife calls up an American company with a legit complaint and, even though she wasn't intending to be rude, the company rep wound up being offended. Is it okay for an American customer service rep to say, "you cannot speak to me as if I were an Asian"? Is it normal in some Asian cultures to give an unintentionally rude customer, regardless of that customer's origin, second-rate service? or to deny service?

 

The onus for providing cultural awareness and sensitivity falls squarely and solely on the offending company's customer service department. If a consumer wants to use their plaint as an opportunity to practice their attempt at recognizing other cultures, great! but that is very optional. If a company—regardless of its origin—doesn't understand, accept, and tolerate the norms and expectations of their chosen target market then they, IMHO, present too much risk to my money. It should be no surprise if their bottom line should suffer the consequences.

 

Which brings us to TWSBI...

 

TWSBI has earned a reputation for being petty and unscrupulous. It would be wise for any TWSBI consumer to hope for the best but be prepared to go tit for tat. It is my understanding that the owner's son is responsible for their US division and his customer service/support skills are... well... lacking enough that threads like this exist. He lives in southern California, has been thoroughly immersed in US culture for years, and has earned himself a reputation for blaming consumers and making returns/repairs/refunds arduous rather than supporting their occasional less-than-perfect product to the same extent as their competitors. I don't see that as a cultural divide; I see it as a personality flaw and a series of poor business decisions.

 

I purchased a TWSBI Swipe. I am disappointed with it. Because of their reputation, I don't trust TWSBI enough to expect them to uphold their RMA process so I will bypass their customer service and stick to better brands. YMMV.