Parker 51 Jotter

[bsenn]

Did the 51 Jotter ever come with the "VIP"/61 Clip?  This ballpoint came in a 51 Jotter box. I do not know if the box and pen were an original pairing or if it is an International Jotter in the wrong box. The pen is made in USA. The jewel is black. The clip exactly matches a clip on a 61 ballpoint. 

 

[Number99]

I don't know which is correct, but I found an image of another pen in the same box in an image search.

 

I am interested because I recently purchased a ballpoint pen identical to yours.

 

*The image from the website link shown below.

https://parker51.com/images/JOTTER.jpg

 

https://parker51.com/index.php/51s/51-versions/

 

International Jotter was recently shown in this thread.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/368352-what-is-this-ballpoint-pen/?do=findComment&comment=4570025

 

I think the pen next to the mechanical pencil is a ballpoint pen.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Number99
Add symbols.

[Carguy]

I am pretty sure they did, because I have a Surf Green one that matches my same 61 FP

[bsenn]

11 minutes ago, Carguy said:

I am pretty sure they did, because I have a Surf Green one that matches my same 61 FP

 

Is yours marked 61 on the cap? I have a 61 ballpoint which is marked 61 on the cap.

 

I guess I have a number of ballpoint questions:

- If a ballpoint has the 61 clip but is not marked 61, is it a VIP, a "51 Jotter", or something else?

 

- Is the International Jotter always a flighter? Do they always have black jewels?

 

- Do VIPs always have pearl jewels and the polished finish on the cap (like a 51 special polished cap)?

 

 

 

 

[joss]

The two narrow gold bands and the black cap jewel identify your pen as the International Flighter and differentiate it from a Parker 61 Flighter. The International was introduced somewhere in 1958 or earlier (it is mentioned in the 1958 Repair Parts Price List, page 52; catalog available in the PCA library).

Next to the Flighter there was also an International Insignia (cap & barrel gold filled as per 1959 Parker pamphlet, became gold electroplated as per 1961 Parker catalog) and an International Presidential (cap & barrel 14K solid gold; this pen is not mentioned in 1959 pamphlet, shown in 1961 catalog). The International Flighter initially had a single wider gold cap band. That changed to two narrow gold cap bands somewhere in late 1960 (as per December 5, 1960 advertisement in LIFE). All three models came as a ballpoint with matching pencil but I suppose that they were also sold separately.

 

This advertisement is from Time Magazine, December 15 1961:

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by joss
text added

[joss]

I did not make a detailed study on these pens but these are my thoughts:

 

8 hours ago, bsenn said:

- If a ballpoint has the 61 clip but is not marked 61, is it a VIP, a "51 Jotter", or something else?

I do not know. I have a few early P61 fountain pens without "61" imprint on their gold or Lustraloy caps and one vista blue P61 ballpoint without 61 imprint on its gold cap. So a ballpoint without 61 imprint may still be a proper P61 I guess. The earliest P61 caps with First Edition logo also had no 61 imprint.

- Is the International Jotter always a flighter? Do they always have black jewels?

It came as Flighter, Insignia or solid gold Presidential. I think that all Parker International pens had black cap jewels. I do not know whether the International Insignia had the same cap & barrel pattern as the Parker 61 Insignia (groups of 6 parallel fine grooved lines).

- Do VIPs always have pearl jewels and the polished finish on the cap (like a 51 special polished cap)?

I do not have VIP's in my collection but according to this thread the VIP Lustraloy caps were polished steel indeed. The thread also mentions that the VIP was available with a gold cap (with unique VIP features).

 

 

[Number99]

Reference information.

 

You may have already read this article.

The author of this article states that the distinction between the 61 Insignia and the International Insignia is based on the line pattern and gold finish. (His 61 Insignia does not appear to have the "61" stamped on it.)

 

http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3497-dating-a-parker-international-flighter/

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Number99

[joss]

6 hours ago, Number99 said:

Reference information.

 

You may have already read this article.

The author of this article states that the distinction between the 61 Insignia and the International Insignia is based on the line pattern and gold finish. (His 61 Insignia does not appear to have the "61" stamped on it.)

 

http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3497-dating-a-parker-international-flighter/

 

Thank you, I had not seen that thread!

From that info it thus appears that the International Insignia and 61 Insignia ballpoint differ in respect to cap pattern (continuous lines vs groups of 6 lines), cap jewel colour (black vs grey) and gold layer (gold electroplated vs gold filled).

 

That thread mentions that the International was introduced in 1958 and it is indeed mentioned in a 1958 repair price list. I have now also found a 1959 Parker England brochure that mentions the International. So 1961 as the introduction year was wrong and I changed that in my reply above.

Edited November 14, 2022 by joss

[bsenn]

Joss and Number99, thank you for the information. It appears that the International Jotter pen and the "51 Jotter" box are not a matching set.

 

I have ballpoints (shown here next toInternational Jotter) with plastic barrels, the 61 clip, polished caps, and pearl jewels. VIP or 61?  Or is there no way to tell?

 

[joss]

22 hours ago, bsenn said:

Joss and Number99, thank you for the information. It appears that the International Jotter pen and the "51 Jotter" box are not a matching set.

 

I have ballpoints (shown here next toInternational Jotter) with plastic barrels, the 61 clip, polished caps, and pearl jewels. VIP or 61?  Or is there no way to tell?

 

The 51 Jotter box is quite neat but is likely not correct for that ballpoint, indeed. Is there text/imprint on the box that might be relevant for those like us that care about identification of these vintage Parker ballpoints?

 

Based on the polished cap I would say that your two ballpoints with grey barrel are VIPs. I think that the polished cap was not used for the Parker 61 although I have one 61 fountain pen with polished cap in my collection. Do you have a 61 ballpoint to compare the length of the polished caps against that from a 61? 

[bsenn]

The polished caps (which I am now calling VIP) are the exact same size as a standard 51 ballpoint cap (differences are the polishing and the 61-style clip). The 61 ballpoint I have (marked 61 on the cap) is an insignia (signet?). The 61 cap is shorter in length and smaller in diameter than a standard 51 ballpoint cap.

 

The "51 Jotter" box has absolutely no markings except US Pats 2,428,854 (a Parker patent filed in 1945 which covers a ballpoint mechanism) and 2,678,634 (filed in 1946 which covers an ink cartridge, and is from a guy in Denmark), and NO. 175 (I assume that's the box number).  There is not a printed description or price (although there is a handwritten $5.00 price).

 

[Number99]

I think this thread, viewed in conjunction with the "Fountain Pen Board" thread, has been a very useful read for understanding the identification of the "Parker VIP pen", "International Jotter", "Parker 61 ballpoint pen" and "Parker 51 Jotter".

 

Thanks @bsenn and @joss.

 

So is it possible to still tag the names of these ballpoint pens in the title?

It would be very helpful to be able to search and browse again in the future.

If possible I would respectfully request it.

 

There is one more question I would like to ask out of curiosity.

My International Jotter has a "3" stamped on the cap top ear position, do your pens also have that stamp?

I am curious as to why PARKER put the "3" engraving on these pens, including the 45 gold caps.

 

I still only have the International Jotter, but look forward to the day when I can come across the other pens in my area.

[joss]

17 hours ago, bsenn said:

The polished caps (which I am now calling VIP) are the exact same size as a standard 51 ballpoint cap (differences are the polishing and the 61-style clip). The 61 ballpoint I have (marked 61 on the cap) is an insignia (signet?). The 61 cap is shorter in length and smaller in diameter than a standard 51 ballpoint cap.

 

The "51 Jotter" box has absolutely no markings except US Pats 2,428,854 (a Parker patent filed in 1945 which covers a ballpoint mechanism) and 2,678,634 (filed in 1946 which covers an ink cartridge, and is from a guy in Denmark), and NO. 175 (I assume that's the box number).  There is not a printed description or price (although there is a handwritten $5.00 price).

 

Thank you for that info! So the length and diameter of the caps clearly differentiate a VIP ballpoint from a 61 ballpoint.

 

The typeface of the "Jotter" imprint on your box is identical to that on the 1954 T-ball Jotter ballpoint box so I think your box belongs to the earliest version of the 51 Jotter. It is also shown on the Parker 51 website.

[JotterAddict62]

I like the box Brian.

[bsenn]

Joss - Yes, the International Jotter has "3" stamped on the clip ring.

[bsenn]

I pulled out two more pens which fit in here, pens 5 and 6 . Description of the pens in the photo (L-to-R):

 

1) International Jotter. "61"-style clip. Black jewel. Barrel has male threads. Clip has "3" stamped in ring.

1A) International Jotter Twist Pencil (not shown).  "61"-style clip, with "3" stamped on the ring. Pearl jewel. (Pencil did not come with the pen).

2) 51 Ballpoint. "51" clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on cap/mechanism.

3) 51 Ballpoint. "51" clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on cap/mechanism.

4) VIP (I assume). "61"-style clip. Polished cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on barrel.

5)  ? Ballpoint "61"-style clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on barrel.

6) ? (came with a pencil refill in it, but appears completely the same as #5). "61"-style clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on barrel.

7) 61 Ballpoint. Shorter than the others. Pearl jewel. Male threads on barrel.

 

Did VIPs come with both polished and frosted caps?

 

[sherbie]

Looks like i may have an identical pen to 4) above 

 

same green colour, grey jewel, polished cap, same clip, male threads on plastic barrel 

 

markings on cap are : parker halo sign, PARKER, and the made in USA on reverse 

 

shown between nassau green p51 vacummatic DJ and forest green P51 aero SJ for colour comparison 

 

so, another VIP, and my first, I hope 

 

 

[Number99]

On 11/27/2022 at 10:34 AM, bsenn said:

I pulled out two more pens which fit in here, pens 5 and 6 . Description of the pens in the photo (L-to-R):

 

1) International Jotter. "61"-style clip. Black jewel. Barrel has male threads. Clip has "3" stamped in ring.

1A) International Jotter Twist Pencil (not shown).  "61"-style clip, with "3" stamped on the ring. Pearl jewel. (Pencil did not come with the pen).

2) 51 Ballpoint. "51" clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on cap/mechanism.

3) 51 Ballpoint. "51" clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on cap/mechanism.

4) VIP (I assume). "61"-style clip. Polished cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on barrel.

5)  ? Ballpoint "61"-style clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on barrel.

6) ? (came with a pencil refill in it, but appears completely the same as #5). "61"-style clip. Frosted cap. Pearl Jewel. Male threads on barrel.

7) 61 Ballpoint. Shorter than the others. Pearl jewel. Male threads on barrel.

 

Did VIPs come with both polished and frosted caps?

 

Page 67 (9th page of the PDF) of "Parker Repair Parts Price List, part 2, Sep 1960; 47 pp." in the PCA library linked to by @joss in the post above, shows 4 different VIP caps. (Only three drawings are available.)

https://pencollectorsofamerica.org/reference-library/parker/

I noticed after searching the parts list that PARKER seems to classify all ballpoint pens from this period as "JOTTER's".

 

By the way, was the Eversharp Big E ballpoint pen ever officially sold?

I assume it's a product from the same period, but it's acting weird, so I tried to check it out, but the pen parts list only shows fountain pens and pencils...

😅

 

[joss]

5 hours ago, Number99 said:

Page 67 (9th page of the PDF) of "Parker Repair Parts Price List, part 2, Sep 1960; 47 pp." in the PCA library linked to by @joss in the post above, shows 4 different VIP caps. (Only three drawings are available.)

https://pencollectorsofamerica.org/reference-library/parker/

I noticed after searching the parts list that PARKER seems to classify all ballpoint pens from this period as "JOTTER's".

 

Great find! The catalogs and repair lists are packed with great info but someone has to take the time to go through it!

 

The list does not specify the material of the caps but there are only three reference numbers mentioned for the V.I.P. caps "Less Clip":

570-702 (gold filled cap?)

755-002 (polished Lustraloy cap?)

754-002 (matte Lustraloy cap?)

 

Cap 754-002 was available with two different clips: the difference in price may suggest that it could be a gold filled or a chrome clip?

Interesting to see is that there is a Parker 61-type clip on the first two caps while the third cap has a Parker 51-type clip. This coincides with the pens that are shown in @Bsenn's pictures above.

 

So there are four different combinations of V.I.P. caps indeed and these may be:

756-180: gold filled cap with gold filled P61-type clip

755-180: polished Lustraloy cap with gold filled P61-type clip (we have not seen this version yet)

754-180: matte Lustraloy cap with chrome P61-type clip

796-180: matte Lustraloy cap with chrome P51-type clip

 

By the way: the 1962 parts price list (page 2-t) only shows two different V.I.P. ballpoints: the Custom (gold filled cap and clip?) and the Special (polished Lustraloy cap and clip?).

 

5 hours ago, Number99 said:

By the way, was the Eversharp Big E ballpoint pen ever officially sold?

I assume it's a product from the same period, but it's acting weird, so I tried to check it out, but the pen parts list only shows fountain pens and pencils...

 

I do not know. Also 1961 to 1963 ads show BigE fountain pens and pencils only, no ballpoints ...

[Number99]

6 hours ago, joss said:

 

Great find! The catalogs and repair lists are packed with great info but someone has to take the time to go through it!

 

The list does not specify the material of the caps but there are only three reference numbers mentioned for the V.I.P. caps "Less Clip":

570-702 (gold filled cap?)

755-002 (polished Lustraloy cap?)

754-002 (matte Lustraloy cap?)

 

Cap 754-002 was available with two different clips: the difference in price may suggest that it could be a gold filled or a chrome clip?

Interesting to see is that there is a Parker 61-type clip on the first two caps while the third cap has a Parker 51-type clip. This coincides with the pens that are shown in @Bsenn's pictures above.

 

So there are four different combinations of V.I.P. caps indeed and these may be:

756-180: gold filled cap with gold filled P61-type clip

755-180: polished Lustraloy cap with gold filled P61-type clip (we have not seen this version yet)

754-180: matte Lustraloy cap with chrome P61-type clip

796-180: matte Lustraloy cap with chrome P51-type clip

 

By the way: the 1962 parts price list (page 2-t) only shows two different V.I.P. ballpoints: the Custom (gold filled cap and clip?) and the Special (polished Lustraloy cap and clip?).

 

 

I do not know. Also 1961 to 1963 ads show BigE fountain pens and pencils only, no ballpoints ...

Thanks for fitting the puzzle pieces together.

The rest of us need to think about the inexplicable difference in the number of parts on different pages of the description, and what it means.

 

As for the Big E ballpoint pen, I'll look into it some more with an eye toward the modification of the pencil into a ballpoint pen.

However, the metal tip at the end of the barrel appears to be a ballpoint pen part.

Also, the following information is printed in blue on the refill:

Eversharp

Red top refill

Made in USA

halo mark (small Parker logo)

 

The writing size "XF F Blue" is printed in small letters in the same position as the Parker G2 refill.

 

The "Made in USA" is engraved in the same position as the Parker G2 refill, and below it (on the tip side) is the letter "D" in twice the size.

 

And a red plastic gear.

The refill is not a G2 refill, but a unique size that is clearly thinner than that.

 

Best of all, the exterior is preserved in specimen-class mint condition, presumably because it was an early defective unit.

I forgot to mention that the pen is glossy black (same as the black Parker 45 Arrow) and has the same form as the 45 ballpoint pen, and the clip is a Big E clip.

 

Postscript.

The same "Eversharp" writing logo as on the fountain pen under the clip on the cap, "Made in USA" on the rear side, and the Parker halo mark above that.

The cap top screw is the same as the Parker 45 from the 1960s.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Number99