Lamy Woes

[dipper]

10 hours ago, dipper said:

...... Now the dangerous ones. Not for cleaning fountain pens. Can dissolve some plastics such as ABS (Lamy Safari) and .....

 

4 hours ago, OregonJim said:

...... the acetone also dissolved the plastic threads inside the barrel.  The section is fine (I didn't get that near the acetone), but the rest of the pen is toast......

Umm... So the plastic thread insert (in the metal pen body tube) was likely ABS plastic.

 

The remaining undamaged section, feed, and nib, are now ideal for further experiments. For example:

 

Fit an empty cartridge or converter. Fill with water + a drop of detergent. With body off, nib tip resting downwards on paper towel, watch the flow.

 

Fill with plain water, no detergent. (High surface tension.) With body off, nib tip resting downwards on paper towel, watch the air bubbles entering the cartridge or converter. See if "air-lock" happens.

[Azulado]

7 hours ago, OregonJim said:

The section is fine (I didn't get that near the acetone), but the rest of the pen is toast.

Rubber Grip Sections are available for between $15 and $20. In the US, I have seen an Arizona store where it is in stock.

Update: I just realized that the barrel has a plastic internal thread and it is not the section that is damaged.
What I don't understand is why the acetone came in contact with the barrel.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Yikes.  At least save the nib?

[mtcn77]

Don't use volatile chemicals with your next Lamy. Lesson learned for all. That is why I chose the Scala, metal construction❤.

[arcfide]

Well, I think @OregonJim is providing the rest of us with quite the entertainment, and at little cost, since he isn't so fond of the pens anyways, which makes possible a range of experiments that we might otherwise not want to do! I've always been curious about what might happen with more aggressive chemicals with some of my pens, but I've never been willing to do that to them, except straining the clip on a Platinum Preppy once (only to find that it didn't snap the way I thought it would!). 

[Azulado]

7 hours ago, arcfide said:

I've always been curious about what might happen with more aggressive chemicals with some of my pens

A few weeks ago, I used WD-40 - quite a lot of it - to facilitate the removal of a nib and a feed. The section was metal. The product did not cause any damage to the parts.
The fountain pen belonged to an engineer friend. He told me that I could use the product without any fear. By the way, I could not remove the nib.

[dipper]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:47 AM, Azulado said:

I used WD-40 - quite a lot of it - to facilitate the removal of a nib and a feed. The section was metal. The product did not cause any damage to the parts.

Does the pen still write?

 

I would expect the WD40 oil film on the pen's feed to be persistent and deadly, penetrating all the slits & slots & crevices. Did you flush with detergent?

 

Or perhaps an oily feed actually works OK?!!!

 

Here is another surprise:

Empty "disposable" Pilot Varsity / V-Pen. Opaque coating on barrel removed with Cellulose Thinners. The pen survived undamaged, ready for refilling!

 

 

[Azulado]

11 hours ago, dipper said:

I would expect the WD40 oil film on the pen's feed to be persistent and deadly, penetrating all the slits & slots & crevices. Did you flush with detergent?

I took the precaution of carefully washing the nib feed assembly with soap. I unsuccessfully used WD-40 to remove the nib and feed – my friend, who is an engineer, had absolute confidence in the product. I then returned the pen to its owner and, with the help of tools, managed to remove the nib and feed. I guess he re-washed the parts. A few days ago I asked him about it and he said it wrote very well.
I did note that the WD-40 effectively cleaned the entire assembly. The feed was spotless. The nib, out of the box, had traces of a substance that we were unable to identify, but it looked like some oil used in the manufacture of the pen. Soap and a toothbrush had failed to remove the residue.
The context is interesting. It was a Brazilian pen called Crown Regent. From what I have managed to find out, the brand manufactures the pens with parts from different suppliers. I was able to identify that the model equips different nibs. It's as if they were producing with what they have in stock. In the case of my friend's pen, we suspect that they fitted a nib not suitable for the housing. Consequently, they needed to exert a lot of pressure to insert it. This may have changed the geometry of the nib, which affected the air channel, resulting in constant interruptions.
My friend decided to make the channel 0.2 mm deeper. The solution was definitive, since then it did not fail again. I suspect that enlarging the channel solved the air channel problem. Reinserting the nib was quite complicated due to lack of space.
Crown orders the parts from a company or companies in China or Taiwan. It seems that these details are known to very few people. There is a YT channel that tried to find out without success. The fact is that they use nibs engraved with "Genius iridium Germany". I don't know where they are made, but their polish is excellent, even without ink they are smooth! The nib has a rough finish, if we wanted to save it, it was because of the quality of the nib. As you can see in the photos, my friend's unit has a longer nib. On the tip you can see the stain of the unidentified substance.

 

 

[dipper]

3 hours ago, Azulado said:

I took the precaution of carefully washing the nib feed assembly with soap....(snip).....and he said it wrote very well.
I did note that the WD-40 effectively cleaned the entire assembly. The feed was spotless....(snip)....Soap and a toothbrush had failed to remove the residue.

Thanks. That is useful information.

 

My WD-40 cans are today promoted from humble use in the garage and on garden tools. Now available for pen servicing also.

[Mercian]

9 hours ago, Azulado said:

The nib, out of the box, had traces of a substance that we were unable to identify, but it looked like some oil used in the manufacture of the pen. Soap and a toothbrush had failed to remove the residue.

My first Parker 45 came to me containing a cartridge of Parker Quink ‘Blue Black’ that appeared to have been in the pen for 30-40 years.

After much soaking I managed to remove the feed & nib, but there was old ink caked on to the nib.

It would not come off when I cleaned the nib with dish soap and a toothbrush, or with vinegar solution and a toothbrush, or with ammonia solution and a toothbrush.

 

I eventually managed to get the old ink off by rubbing the affected-area of the nib with an old soft (-ish) graphite pencil. It was either an ‘HB’ or a ‘2B’.

My reasoning was that the pencil was probably going to be hard enough to dislodge the contaminant, but not hard enough to damage the steel of the nib.

 

Looking at your photo of that nib, I suspect that a pencil might not help you, but it may be worth trying it.

[bonnie-scott]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:47 AM, OregonJim said:

This seems to be a yearly thing with me.  I dig out my Lamy collection and try to like them.  This year is no different than the last five - no dice.

 

I have 4 Lamy Safaris, 2 AL-Stars, and a Studio.  All seven pens have feed issues.  All seven pens skip.  All seven are hard starters, no matter what ink I try.  Nibs range from extra-fine to broad.  Have tried cleaning and flushing 'till I'm blue in the face.

 

I have yet to touch a Lamy pen that actually works well.  What is wrong?  Surely there are many people who love their Lamys - have I gotten seven duds in a row?

 

I think this will be the last time I mess with them.  Any tips would be appreciated, but I feel I've tried everything.  I *really* want to like them, but I'm getting old enough that it's not worth the hassle, and I'm most CERTAINLY not going to buy an eighth one!

I missed the outcome, did you get this sorted?

hat are 

the only thing i can suggest is either:

 

a) taking the feed out and cleaning it and examining it.  I don't normally suggest this as i think things that are a friction fit only get looser overtime you take them apart.

b) using the converter piton to pressurise/prime the feed and nib.  This has worked when I have recived some used and neglected pens.

 

hope you find an answer/solution,

Julian

[mtcn77]

1 hour ago, bonnie-scott said:

I missed the outcome, did you get this sorted?

hat are 

the only thing i can suggest is either:

 

a) taking the feed out and cleaning it and examining it.  I don't normally suggest this as i think things that are a friction fit only get looser overtime you take them apart.

b) using the converter piton to pressurise/prime the feed and nib.  This has worked when I have recived some used and neglected pens.

 

hope you find an answer/solution,

Julian

Just what I experienced.

Question: do you recommend spring fitted converters since they should on paper break surface tension if you invert the pen when it doesn't write? The spring should prime the ink without moving the piston.

[bonnie-scott]

Question: do you recommend spring fitted converters since they should on paper break surface tension if you invert the pen when it doesn't write? The spring should prime the ink without moving the piston.

 

Can't really say, I don't really use them.  I think I have one in my only Montblanc (Noblesse).  For Lamy's I just use the standard Lamy ones which work fine for me.  Although I'll probably get told off for this, I fill and empty the converter (back to the bottle - yes mea culpa) 2-3 times on first filling as the never fill fully first time.  I suppose that could be a surface tension thing?? Never really thought, but Once I get a full charge they always seem to work fine.

[Lithium466]

16 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

Just what I experienced.

Question: do you recommend spring fitted converters since they should on paper break surface tension if you invert the pen when it doesn't write? The spring should prime the ink without moving the piston.

I have been following several conversations about that, and always wondered...I hate the rattling of having springs or tiny balls or things inside converters, so I remove them as much as I can, and never experienced surface tension or associated ink starvation issues.

The only time I keep some kind of agitator is when using inks that contain particulates (mica, sheening stuff, etc), to help put them back in suspension with a gentle shaking.

 

Maybe some ink/converters associations are just prone to surface tension issues (Sailor Souboku, Pilot converters before redesign ?).

[Azulado]

14 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

Just what I experienced.

Question: do you recommend spring fitted converters since they should on paper break surface tension if you invert the pen when it doesn't write? The spring should prime the ink without moving the piston.

Lamy converters have no surface tension problems, the ink moves freely inside them. I have never seen ink sticking in Lamy converters.
On the other hand, it is not easy to disassemble Lamy converters.
Besides, the owner of these 7 "damned" Lamys already successfully did the feed flow test.
At this point, I see only one solution, that he sends the pens to @Sailor Kenshin, who lives in the USA and has offered. I think any of us who have participated in this thread have experience with Lamy and would get him to write, if not all, at least most.

 

[Azulado]

16 hours ago, Mercian said:

Mirando tu foto de esa punta, sospecho que un lápiz no te ayudará, pero puede valer la pena intentarlo.

I appreciate your suggestion. I already returned the pen to its owner, but the stain came out almost completely with WD40. In any case, it never hurts to know new solutions, maybe it can be useful to me in the future. 

[Azulado]

There may be converters that work with some deficiency, but the cartridges always work perfectly.

[mtcn77]

53 minutes ago, Lithium466 said:

I have been following several conversations about that, and always wondered...I hate the rattling of having springs or tiny balls or things inside converters, so I remove them as much as I can, and never experienced surface tension or associated ink starvation issues.

The only time I keep some kind of agitator is when using inks that contain particulates (mica, sheening stuff, etc), to help put them back in suspension with a gentle shaking.

 

Maybe some ink/converters associations are just prone to surface tension issues (Sailor Souboku, Pilot converters before redesign ?).

Well, I had it with Pelikan 4001 Black. Ink was up top. The pen and converter were also bone stock. Maybe, I knocked it in too hard(I'm a bit fussy) and bent the converter lip where it seeps air, or up top from the piston end? I really cannot think of any other reason. The converter was ½ full, but the wrong way.

50 minutes ago, Azulado said:

Lamy converters have no surface tension problems, the ink moves freely inside them. I have never seen ink sticking in Lamy converters.

Pelikan 4001 has a reputation of being extremely dry. Maybe it is the reason.

[Azulado]

22 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

1 hour ago, Azulado said:

 

Pelikan 4001 has a reputation of being extremely dry. Maybe it is the reason.

The surface tension of Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink is quite high, 69 nM/m, according to a measurement by Ines Fritz. Waterman Serenity blue has a very similar value and is considered a benchmark for testing the performance of a nib.

I now have Pelikan 4001 brilliant black in one of my pens, in a Schmidt converter. The ink is clumped, doesn't move freely, but it writes smoothly. In Schmidt converters there are inks that stick, but it's not a problem, they are the best converters I know, they never fail me and they don't need springs or balls.

[mtcn77]

15 minutes ago, Azulado said:

The surface tension of Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink is quite high, 69 nM/m, according to a measurement by Ines Fritz. Waterman Serenity blue has a very similar value and is considered a benchmark for testing the performance of a nib.

I now have Pelikan 4001 brilliant black in one of my pens, in a Schmidt converter. The ink is clumped, doesn't move freely, but it writes smoothly. In Schmidt converters there are inks that stick, but it's not a problem, they are the best converters I know, they never fail me and they don't need springs or balls.

I thought they make GvFC converters, too. Although GvFC converters do come with inserted springs in the chamber.