Lamy Woes

[dipper]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:16 PM, A Smug Dill said:

Specifically, if they are Z50 nibs, then I have no interest whatsoever.

 

I noted an earlier post listing various types of Lamy nibs. As I have often toyed with buying a Lamy I tried to dig a bit deeper.....

And I got lost down rabbit-holes or in the riduculous marketing-gobbledygook on the Lamy official site.

 

Can anyone please give web links to any reference that summarises what the different Z... nibs are, and especially what nibs are swapable between what pens?

 

I have seen that the Lamy 2000 has an entirely separate family of extra-special nibs, specific to that pen model only. (My likely purchase.)

But an entry level Safari or similar would also be tempting, partly because I don't have one and feel left out 😀.

I did try some Safaris with various italic and other nibs in a demonstration display at TheWritingDesk when they had a physical retail shop in BuryStEdmonds. They all wrote really well, but I now realise that I have no idea what Z... nibs I was actually using then.

 

[Azulado]

@dipperI only have Z50, which, contrary to @A Smug Dill opinion, I think are fantastic nibs. If I'm not mistaken, all Z nibs are compatible with the Safari. In https://www.lamy.com/en/lamy-nib-guide/ you have them all. Some are gold, others have a rounded shape, but the basic idea is the same. In my opinion based on the accounts of others, the gold ones (Z55, Z56 and Z57) and the Z53 have better quality control. The Z52 looks the same as the Z50, but its color is black.
It seems that since they started using laser cutting, the Z50s got better. My experience with the last 4 I bought (EF, F, B and 1.1), without the black spot on the breathing hole, is very good. The EF was a little rough and I smoothed it out. The 1.1 was not scratchy, but a little rough in some strokes, on the direction changes. I smoothed just the slit (Richard Binder style) and it was perfect.

[Mercian]

15 hours ago, OregonJim said:

Now, that particular nib, on the feed of an Al-Star, wrote a full page without any skipping.  Further, I then put it away for an hour and a half - and it started right up again.

 

It's too soon to say anything conclusively, but the results look promising.  Still, I am wondering about the other six pens (eight, if you count the two spare nibs).

Yay!

I hope that your Al-star’s problem is permanently solved, and that the same trick also cures your other nibs.

 

Maybe you did genuinely just ‘manage to’ get nine nibs whose tines were still too tight when they left the factory.

The odds of it happening are small, but they’re still non-zero.
I’d also expect that the odds are higher for you buying nine consecutive bad nibs across a couple of decades than if you had bought all nine nibs in one go. After all, every large-scale manufacturer in the world is going to have the occasional ‘sub-optimal’ product slip through its QC process, but to buy nine bad ones in one go would suggest that a huge group of substandard nibs had left Heidelberg in the same batch, and without Lamy noticing.

 

Anyway, I wish you every success with adjusting your other Lamy nibs 👍

[Mercian]

1 hour ago, dipper said:

Can anyone please give web links to any reference that summarises what the different Z... nibs are, and especially what nibs are swapable between what pens?

This link to the ‘spare nibs’ section of TheWritingDesk.co.uk lists all Lamy nibs. It includes the nib’s Z-number, and also names the pen that each particular one is fitted to when the pen leaves the factory.

Edit to add: I just checked my link. I’ve found that you will need to check the ‘Lamy’ box on the left of that page in order to see only Lamy nibs.

 

The Lamy 2000 is the only modern Lamy pen that can only accept its original, model-specific, nib.

Any of the other nibs can be fitted to any other currently-produced Lamy pen.

The Z53 nib from the Aion will still fit on to the feeds of the other pens, even though its upper surface is shaped differently. The Z50, and the other nibs of its shape, will also fit on to the feed of the Aion.
 

So, e.g., one could, if one wished to, put a gold nib (with or without a breather hole, and with or without black coating) on to a Safari, Vista, Aion, or Studio.

Or put a steel nib from a Safari or Lx on to one’s Dialog 3 or one’s Imporium.

 

I don’t know whether the Z53 from on Aion will fit inside a Dialog 3 when the nib is retracted in to the housing/body. I don’t own either pen, but to me the Z53 looks as though it might be slightly longer than a Z55 or Z50 nib.

Second edit:

Nobody need read this post at all - if you read the page to which @Azulado posted a link, you will find that Lamy themselves say that…

 

“In principle you can combine your favourite Lamy Fountain pen with any Lamy nib to create your perfect writing instrument. The LAMY 2000 is an exception to this rule as it has its own special nib.”

 

Still, I suppose that if anyone would like to buy a spare Lamy from a UK retailer, this post does at least link to one….

[OregonJim]

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

Yay!

I hope that your Al-star’s problem is permanently solved, and that the same trick also cures your other nibs.

 

 

I hoped so too, but a day later and the problems have reappeared (though in a slightly different manner).

 

The nib I 'adjusted' is apparently a Z52 (black in color).  I picked it up again this morning, and it started writing right away.  However, it is writing EXTREMELY dry, so much so that I have to write v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y to get the ink to flow continuously, and the lines written are very light, looking like the mark of an almost-expired ballpoint.

 

Maybe the alloy used for these nibs has a memory effect?  Did the tines revert to the position they've been in for years, or nearly so?  I will try the 'adjustment' again later this evening, as I'm heading out the door in a few minutes.  These Lamys are the most confounding FPs I've ever had the (mis?)fortune of owning!  

 

P.S. - I also have a Lamy Studio - I think it was a limited edition - and the barrel is sort of a rubberized blue.  However, the rubber-like coating has become 'sticky' and is absolutely abhorrent to touch, like nails on a chalkboard.  Is there a known solution to removing the stickiness of the coating?  Otherwise, the pen is unholdable.

[mtcn77]

2 hours ago, Azulado said:

@dipperI only have Z50, which, contrary to @A Smug Dill opinion, I think are fantastic nibs. If I'm not mistaken, all Z nibs are compatible with the Safari. In https://www.lamy.com/en/lamy-nib-guide/ you have them all. Some are gold, others have a rounded shape, but the basic idea is the same. In my opinion based on the accounts of others, the gold ones (Z55, Z56 and Z57) and the Z53 have better quality control. The Z52 looks the same as the Z50, but its color is black.
It seems that since they started using laser cutting, the Z50s got better. My experience with the last 4 I bought (EF, F, B and 1.1), without the black spot on the breathing hole, is very good. The EF was a little rough and I smoothed it out. The 1.1 was not scratchy, but a little rough in some strokes, on the direction changes. I smoothed just the slit (Richard Binder style) and it was perfect.

The gold ones are still not perfect if you can dry up a whole converter in less than a day like me and the feed does not keep up because there sits an air bubble because the converter does not have sufficient surface tension measures installed - a.k.a springs inside.

I make a big commotion out of the converters since it will put the pen in the most dangerous circumstance throughout its effective life when it does not write - the user will try to press it harder and destroy the nib. It might be a miniscule loss of rigidity, but it would have lost its stock tune which I highly regard in pens of this caliber.

[Azulado]

5 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

These Lamys are the most confounding FPs I've ever had the (mis?)fortune of owning! 

With a photographic negative you will never open the tines. Follow Matt Armstrong's tutorial and open them by pressing them against a glass table. See the photo I sent you. Adjust so that the tines don't touch, but don't allow them to form a "V" shape!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuq9tuKRbCY&t=788s

Lamy nibs are the easiest to adjust that I know of.

 

[Azulado]

7 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

The gold ones are still not perfect if you can dry up a whole converter in less than a day like me and the feed does not keep up because there sits an air bubble because the converter does not have sufficient surface tension measures installed - a.k.a springs inside.

I don't have any surface tension problems with Lamy converters, the ink moves smoothly inside, like water in a bottle, never sticking to the walls. It is true that sometimes the flow decreases, but it does not stop writing. I shake the pen and it recovers the flow. This happens more in some converters than in others. The most critical is when there is little ink.

[Sailor Kenshin]

27 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

 

I hoped so too, but a day later and the problems have reappeared (though in a slightly different manner).

 

The nib I 'adjusted' is apparently a Z52 (black in color).  I picked it up again this morning, and it started writing right away.  However, it is writing EXTREMELY dry, so much so that I have to write v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y to get the ink to flow continuously, and the lines written are very light, looking like the mark of an almost-expired ballpoint.

 

Maybe the alloy used for these nibs has a memory effect?  Did the tines revert to the position they've been in for years, or nearly so?  I will try the 'adjustment' again later this evening, as I'm heading out the door in a few minutes.  These Lamys are the most confounding FPs I've ever had the (mis?)fortune of owning!  

 

P.S. - I also have a Lamy Studio - I think it was a limited edition - and the barrel is sort of a rubberized blue.  However, the rubber-like coating has become 'sticky' and is absolutely abhorrent to touch, like nails on a chalkboard.  Is there a known solution to removing the stickiness of the coating?  Otherwise, the pen is unholdable.

i know those sticky pens.  (It happens to cooking equipment handles also).  We've had success with plain rubbing alcohol.

[mtcn77]

14 minutes ago, Azulado said:

I shake the pen and it recovers the flow.

Believe me I would if I could. It was just the thought of ink stain on suede that prevented me doing it the other day, lol. I just primed the converter.

[mtcn77]

39 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

P.S. - I also have a Lamy Studio - I think it was a limited edition - and the barrel is sort of a rubberized blue.  However, the rubber-like coating has become 'sticky' and is absolutely abhorrent to touch, like nails on a chalkboard.  Is there a known solution to removing the stickiness of the coating?  Otherwise, the pen is unholdable.

It happened to one of my computer mice. Logitech M500 came with this sulphurised oil coating, I learned about it later. If by mistake you wipe it with some soap, it reverses the seasoning, making it sticky like oven grease. It can only be cleaned with acidic cleaners. I tried removing it with alcohol like it removes epoxy, but it wouldn't work.

I doubt it is the same issue, though. Rubber is incompatible with acids. It makes rubber brittle, same with ABS plastic that gets dissolved by acids.

[Azulado]

40 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

P.S. - I also have a Lamy Studio - I think it was a limited edition - and the barrel is sort of a rubberized blue.  However, the rubber-like coating has become 'sticky' and is absolutely abhorrent to touch, like nails on a chalkboard.  Is there a known solution to removing the stickiness of the coating?  Otherwise, the pen is unholdable.

This is a known problem of many rubber-coated sections of many brands. Use Isopropyl alcohol, which is normally used to clean electronic components. Look for it at an electronics store.

Lamy sells the spare section.

[dipper]

4 hours ago, OregonJim said:

Is there a known solution to removing the stickiness of the coating?

I have a small collection of solvents/cleaners that generally succeed in removing the sticky mess that rubber (and some other materials) occasionally degenerate into with age, or as a result of handling and absorbing skin oils etc.

 

First step is always the most gentle, safe, non damaging. Then working up to the nasty ones - as far as I dare go.

 

Cleaning glue-gunk off de-labelled glass bottles, it is safe to go all the way. No household chemicals can damage glass. Cleaning sticky fountain pens I am much more cautious.

 

My sequence is

1 ) Vegetable cooking oil - rubbed in, then wiped away with paper towels. Final cleanup, to remove the oil, is a wash with warm water and detergent.

 

2 ) Liquid Paraffin. Applied onto a paper towel covering, and left to soak-in for 10 minutes or so. Many glues soften and then turn into slime that is easily wiped away, given enough time.

 

3 ) Alcohol, or Methylated Spirits.

 

Now the dangerous ones. Not for cleaning fountain pens. Can dissolve some plastics such as ABS (Lamy Safari) and Polystyrene (UK Parker Duofold). But some other plastics are 100% safe. Both 4 and 5 below come in plastic bottles, or glass bottles with plastic screw tops!

 

4 ) Cellulose Thinners.

 

5 ) Acetone.

 

Also, a new addition, recently purchased. Used a couple of times and this did work removing "gunk". Chemically safe, as this is a hand cleaner, but slightly abrasive as it contains pumice stone particles. Rub in dry, then rise with water. Bought from a garage / workshop supplies shop. (Halfords in the UK.)

[mtcn77]

36 minutes ago, dipper said:

I have a small collection of solvents/cleaners that generally succeed in removing the sticky mess that rubber (and some other materials) occasionally degenerate into with age, or as a result of handling and absorbing skin oils etc.

 

First step is always the most gentle, safe, non damaging. Then working up to the nasty ones - as far as I dare go.

 

Cleaning glue-gunk off de-labelled glass bottles, it is safe to go all the way. No household chemicals can damage glass. Cleaning sticky fountain pens I am much more cautious.

 

My sequence is

1 ) Vegetable cooking oil - rubbed in, then wiped away with paper towels. Final cleanup, to remove the oil, is a wash with warm water and detergent.

 

2 ) Liquid Paraffin. Applied onto a paper towel covering, and left to soak-in for 10 minutes or so. Many glues soften and then turn into slime that is easily wiped away, given enough time.

 

3 ) Alcohol, or Methylated Spirits.

 

Now the dangerous ones. Not for cleaning fountain pens. Can dissolve some plastics such as ABS (Lamy Safari) and Polystyrene (UK Parker Duofold). But some other plastics are 100% safe. Both 4 and 5 below come in plastic bottles, or glass bottles with plastic screw tops!

 

4 ) Cellulose Thinners.

 

5 ) Acetone.

 

Also, a new addition, recently purchased. Used a couple of times and this did work removing "gunk". Chemically safe, as this is a hand cleaner, but slightly abrasive as it contains pumice stone particles. Rub in dry, then rise with water. Bought from a garage / workshop supplies shop. (Halfords in the UK.)

You were so resourceful at the beginning, I want to add: if what you want is reviving rubber, just rub it with rubber polymer liquid. I heard it revives wiper blades after endless exposure to antifreeze which brings us to,

Alcohols: you have got to be careful using antifreeze on metals since they will oxidise the finish just like bleach.

Vegetable oil and Vaseline: these just help you dissolve VOC compounds, they don't actually take back oxidised oils. They might even present even more substrate to peroxidation. A regular glass cleaning cloth does wonders to prevent oils from leaving an etch down the line.

[dipper]

@Azulado and @Mercian, thanks for the links about Lamy nibs.

 

I do get it now 😊😎😊. I did need both the Lamy and TheWritingDesk pages to crack the code.

 

All those Znn codes are different materials and finishes, body shapes (eg Z53), flexibility (eg Z57), and with/without a breather hole.

 

Then, added to the Znn code is a plain text description of the nib tipping form and size:

EF F M B BB OM OB OBB 1.1mm 1.5mm 1.9mm LH.

 

The basic and cheapest Z50 type nib is available in almost any tipping form.

 

Other Znn types are more restricted in the range of tip sized and forms.

E.g. Black Stainless Steel with a breather hole (= Z52) ... with a 1.5mm Calligraphy tip size? Sorry, not available.

 

There may be subtle differences specific to some combinations of Znn type and tip description.

The Z50 with an "A" tip, also called the "Beginner's Nib". Is described by Lamy as being "Particularly Robust". It must have some structural differences from all the other Z50 nibs, despite being grouped as another Z50.

 

Once I was dumb stupid. Now I am just stupidly dumb 😅.

 

 

[arcfide]

Based on the description from @OregonJim, it makes me think that there is likely some sort of environmental factor at play with these nibs. 

 

The first thing I'd verify with a Lamy nib is whether the tine spacing is correct. I have had many Lamy nibs come with tines that were too tightly spaced for me liking, and if you have a certain expectation of wetness from a pen, then this could easily create some issues for someone. Ensuring an appropriately wide spacing generally gives instant relief and the pens work well from then on out. I've found Lamy feeds to generally be exceptionally reliable and consistent, so I mostly focus on the nibs, which seem to have a wider range of variance in the spacing of the tines compared to other brands. 

 

After that, I'd consider the materials that are being used to clean the pens. Cloths that have too much free lint in them could easily clog the tines when cleaning the pens, or if you use a fibrous paper (such as cotton paper), that can cause tight tines to clog more easily. The fact that some flossing of the nibs seemed to help the issue suggests to me that somehow, debris is getting into the pen. Maybe the environment is abnormally dusty? Moldy? Maybe there's excess oil getting onto the nib? Left over solvent debris? Hard water leading to calcium deposits? 

 

All of these would be exacerbated by tight tines. 

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, OregonJim said:

The nib I 'adjusted' is apparently a Z52 (black in color).

 

Are you sure?

 

34 minutes ago, dipper said:

Black Stainless Steel with a breather hole (= Z52) ...

 

That isn't actually conclusive.

 

LAMY Z50 steel nibs come either polished (i.e. silver in colour) or black-coated.

 

Source: LAMY Shop

 

LAMY Z52 nibs only come with a black PVD coating, but are quite distinguishable visually from the black Z50 nibs.

 

Source: LAMY Shop

 

[TitoThePencilPimp]

7 hours ago, OregonJim said:

 

I hoped so too, but a day later and the problems have reappeared (though in a slightly different manner).

 

The nib I 'adjusted' is apparently a Z52 (black in color).  I picked it up again this morning, and it started writing right away.  However, it is writing EXTREMELY dry, so much so that I have to write v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y to get the ink to flow continuously, and the lines written are very light, looking like the mark of an almost-expired ballpoint.

 

Maybe the alloy used for these nibs has a memory effect?  Did the tines revert to the position they've been in for years, or nearly so?  I will try the 'adjustment' again later this evening, as I'm heading out the door in a few minutes.  These Lamys are the most confounding FPs I've ever had the (mis?)fortune of owning!  

 

P.S. - I also have a Lamy Studio - I think it was a limited edition - and the barrel is sort of a rubberized blue.  However, the rubber-like coating has become 'sticky' and is absolutely abhorrent to touch, like nails on a chalkboard.  Is there a known solution to removing the stickiness of the coating?  Otherwise, the pen is unholdable.

What paper are you using? My Pilot Custom Urushi Vermilion (FM) skips and feels dry on Rhodia, but works perfectly on everything else. The pen is perfectly fine, and my experience using Rhodia is shocking. I have used at least 100 a4 staple pads over the years.

[OregonJim]

9 hours ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

i know those sticky pens.  (It happens to cooking equipment handles also).  We've had success with plain rubbing alcohol.

 

8 hours ago, Azulado said:

This is a known problem of many rubber-coated sections of many brands. Use Isopropyl alcohol, which is normally used to clean electronic components. Look for it at an electronics store.

Lamy sells the spare section.

 

 

Ugh.  Isopropyl Alcohol was NOT the right thing to use.  Now the pen is significantly MORE sticky than it was before.

 

Vegetable oil didn't seem to make any difference.  I'm hesitant to try acetone, as I've seen it make a royal mess of some plasticized materials.  However, the pen is unusable as is, so I suppose I have nothing to lose.  Hold on...

 

Ok, the acetone got rid of the stickiness.  In fact, it dissolved the entire finish!  Now my pen is stainless steel instead of blue:

 

 

I would be ok with that, except that the acetone also dissolved the plastic threads inside the barrel.  The section is fine (I didn't get that near the acetone), but the rest of the pen is toast.

 

On the bright side, now I only have six pens to deal with...

 

[Azulado]

3 hours ago, OregonJim said:

Ugh.  Isopropyl Alcohol was NOT the right thing to use.  Now the pen is significantly MORE sticky than it was before.

I usually use 70 ° alcohol to remove the sticky substance from rubber surfaces. Specifically, I clean a portable wireless speaker and a support band of a personal computer. The cleaning of the speaker gave me a lot of work, I had to wipe it numerous times. On the computer, the substance reappears after two weeks. With the speaker, I had no more problems after several months.
I recommended isopropyl alcohol because it is dehydrated and allows quick drying. It was recommended to me by a friend who is a mechanical engineer and has experience in the automotive industry. He even explained to me what caused the problem.

It happens when the stronger polymer crosslinks get snipped and the molecules revert back into their original small chains. Once that happens you're stuck with rubber that has become sticky and tacky.

I have several rubber sections, but so far they have not given me any problems. I suppose that some of them will end up being problematic.

About the acetone, in some post, someone explained that he used it to dissolve the housing of a Jinhao X-450 in order to fit a Bock unit.