Does a Pilot Custom 845 or Urushi write better than an 823?

[A Smug Dill]

49 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Unfortunately, I ordered a medium nib for the 845…and it’s too thick for me as a workhorse pen.

 

The pen's (or its grip section's) girth, or the line widths produced by the nib?

 

If it's the nib, then at least using a dry-flowing ink could help ‘tame’ the line width, even if you're not going to try to mechanically change the ink flow characteristics of the nib and feed on your new pen. I assume, by “workhorse pen”, you mean something with which you would write with in business-like or sombre colours for whatever application, so there should be a fair few gratingly dry black, blue, even brown inks on the market from which to choose? With Pilot nibs being typically smoother than Sailor and Platinum nibs of the same width grade and physical size, you probably don't have to worry too much about whether a dry ink would be sufficiently lubricating for the interface between nib tipping and paper surface.

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

12 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

The pen's (or its grip section's) girth, or the line widths produced by the nib?

 

If it's the nib, then at least using a dry-flowing ink could help ‘tame’ the line width, even if you're not going to try to mechanically change the ink flow characteristics of the nib and feed on your new pen. I assume, by “workhorse pen”, you mean something with which you would write with in business-like or sombre colours for whatever application, so there should be a fair few gratingly dry black, blue, even brown inks on the market from which to choose? With Pilot nibs being typically smoother than Sailor and Platinum nibs of the same width grade and physical size, you probably don't have to worry too much about whether a dry ink would be sufficiently lubricating for the interface between nib tipping and paper surface.

 

Ah, by thickness, I meant the line thickness produced by the 845 medium nib. I purchased Pelikan 4001 Blue Black to try and manage the line thickness, but the effect isn’t strong enough - at least in a Leuchtturm notebook.   On Midori MD notebook paper the 845 works great (for me). 
 

By ‘workhorse’ pen, I merely meant the pen I predominantly use for most of my writing; one where I can read my own cursive legibly enough to easily migrate to pc/word processor. The “Perfect” pen, if you will. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, the 845 <M> works excellently otherwise.  It’s glassy smooth, and is pleasant to use for journaling. Far superior to the Sailor Pro Gear Realo you helped me with in another thread 🙂

 

Some samples from the 845 with medium, for anyone interested. Probably great for people who write larger, but not me in general. 
 

Top: Leuchtturm, 6mm ruling

Bottom: Midori MD, 7mm ruling

Ink: Pelikan 4001 Blue Black

 

Sanzen Tomoe River Paper, 52 gsm, 3.5mm ruling, various inks

 

Tomoe River Paper 68 gsm, 5mm dot grid, various inks


 

 

Stalogy 52 gsm, 5mm grid various inks

 

Original Tomoe River Paper, 5mm dot grid, various pens & inks mixed on spread

[markofp]

Be warned that the Pilot Custom Urushi is a HUGE pen. I would not order one sight-unseen without a firm return guarantee, try to handle one at a pen show or a dealer first.

 

That being said, order from the Tokyo Quill pen shop. Great prices, no BS, rapid shipping. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

@markofp
Thanks for the heads up; the closest I have in size to the Urushi is the Platinum Curidas, and that is too big for me to use for extended periods. 
 

I’d love to see one of those expensive Urushi pens or Montblancs in person some day 🙂

[TitoThePencilPimp]

15 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

@markofp
Thanks for the heads up; the closest I have in size to the Urushi is the Platinum Curidas, and that is too big for me to use for extended periods. 
 

I’d love to see one of those expensive Urushi pens or Montblancs in person some day 🙂

then the urushi would be too large. assuming that it is the size of curidas, and not how you grip it.

[XYZZY]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:09 AM, PeregrineFalcon said:

@markofp
Thanks for the heads up; the closest I have in size to the Urushi is the Platinum Curidas, and that is too big for me to use for extended periods. 
 

I’d love to see one of those expensive Urushi pens or Montblancs in person some day 🙂

 

According to the specs on the Goulet Pens site the section diameter of the Curidas is 13.3mm, whereas the Custom Urushi is 12.3mm.

[A Smug Dill]

On 12/11/2022 at 4:57 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Unfortunately, I ordered a medium nib for the 845…and it’s too thick for me as a workhorse pen. I’ll need to pick up a “Fine Medium” nib…probably the 912.

 

After procrastinating for a fortnight, I finally inked up my new Pilot Custom Enjyu (or Enjū) that was delivered (to me in Australia within 48 hours of being picked up by DHL in Japan, wow!). It's essentially a Custom 845 with a (resin-impregnated) wood cap and body instead of resin parts, but using all the same components otherwise, including a size 15 bicolour 18K gold nib.

 

You'd probably enjoy the Fine nib on it — or at least the unit I got — which writes (at 10H10V, in the way I test and rate line width, precision, and ease of handling in fountain pens) very much in what I think is Fine-Medium (or Medium-Fine, in Sailor Pen's terms) territory; and that's not as fine as I'd like it to be. Between the ‘broadness’, smoothness, and ‘wetness’ of the pen, I'm really lukewarm about it, as being too glassy smooth for my taste it doesn't slow my pen strokes down (in a good way) with kinaesthetic feedback, but rushes me along because I want to avoid the all-too-ready ink flow further broadening the line. There is just no way for me to write carefully and mindfully with it, or to achieve the carving-words-sharply-into-someone's-forehead feel, that I like (especially) when writing with a larger pen that does not handle like a scalpel or craft knife.

 

 

Aside: Counterintuitively, the smaller (size 10) 14K gold nib on the Custom Kaede is the softest of those three. The nib on my Pilot ‘Hannya Shingyo’ is the sharpest and least wet of that lot, and I like it best because of that.

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

On 12/18/2022 at 8:01 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

After procrastinating for a fortnight, I finally inked up my new Pilot Custom Enjyu (or Enjū) that was delivered (to me in Australia within 48 hours of being picked up by DHL in Japan, wow!). It's essentially a Custom 845 with a (resin-impregnated) wood cap and body instead of resin parts, but using all the same components otherwise, including a size 15 bicolour 18K gold nib.

 

You'd probably enjoy the Fine nib on it — or at least the unit I got — which writes (at 10H10V, in the way I test and rate line width, precision, and ease of handling in fountain pens) very much in what I think is Fine-Medium (or Medium-Fine, in Sailor Pen's terms) territory; and that's not as fine as I'd like it to be. Between the ‘broadness’, smoothness, and ‘wetness’ of the pen, I'm really lukewarm about it, as being too glassy smooth for my taste it doesn't slow my pen strokes down (in a good way) with kinaesthetic feedback, but rushes me along because I want to avoid the all-too-ready ink flow further broadening the line. There is just no way for me to write carefully and mindfully with it, or to achieve the carving-words-sharply-into-someone's-forehead feel, that I like (especially) when writing with a larger pen that does not handle like a scalpel or craft knife.

 

 

Aside: Counterintuitively, the smaller (size 10) 14K gold nib on the Custom Kaede is the softest of those three. The nib on my Pilot ‘Hannya Shingyo’ is the sharpest and least wet of that lot, and I like it best because of that.

 

I was looking at the Enjyu a long time before ordering the 845, but I decided against it; I saw some used models, but lowered in value because ink had stained the wooden barrel. I’m somewhat clumsy, and I knew I’d eventually stain the barrel with ink (my leather goods can attest to that). Someday, when I’m more experienced in fountain pens perhaps. 
 

Anyway, i ordered the 912 with fine medium nib last week; couldn’t stand it anymore. If that doesn’t work out I’m cutting my losses and sending my pens to a nibmeister. 
 

Interesting approach in writing philosophy,  though different to mine, sort of a methodical, surgical approach to writing. Nice, tidy handwriting by the way 🙂 I like to write as quickly as possible, and just clear enough to be legible to myself; I find if I don’t do so, then I forget the exact word or phrase I wanted to write. So, I desire the nib skating across the page like glass. 
 

At this point I’m starting to wonder how consistent all nibs are, even from the same manufacturer, let alone the country, no matter the nib size. I (falsely) assumed the 845 medium nib would be fairly close to Platinum’s medium, but it’s thicker. My fine nib on the 823 writes far thinner than your Enjyu. Maybe in the end it’s all just a dice roll, and it’s up to the consumer to be proficient in tweaking the nib to an exact specification. 

[A Smug Dill]

On 12/21/2022 at 4:40 AM, PeregrineFalcon said:

I (falsely) assumed the 845 medium nib would be fairly close to Platinum’s medium, but it’s thicker.

 

I just saw this writing sample produced with another Pilot Custom size #15 M nib on reddit. The line widths look rather finer than what your Pilot Custom 845 produces.

[PeregrineFalcon]

13 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I just saw this writing sample produced with another Pilot Custom size #15 M nib on reddit. The line widths look rather finer than what your Pilot Custom 845 produces.

Assuming the Reddit post uses a 5mm dot grid, I believe it’s about the same; the user merely has a different, larger, cleaner cursive style than mine. 
 

Anyway, found the sweet spot for me, the Pilot “Fine Medium” nib, or “FM.” 
 

Leuchtturm paper. 
1st: Pilot Custom 823 (Fine), Pilot Iroshizuku Yama-guri ink

2nd: Pilot Custom Heritage 912 (Fine-Medium), Sailor Shikiori Rikyu-cha Ink

3rd: Pilot Custom 845 (Medium), Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black ink

That said, the paper itself heavily influences the pen needed, so the 845 isn’t going to waste. 
 

And what I didn’t realize, is that the 912 and 743 grip sections are interchangeable with the 845 body. So if I feel like swapping the 912 FM nib in the 845 Urushi lacquered body, it’s no problem if the smaller #10 size nib and silver accent doesn’t bother me. 
 

 

Crazy 🙂

[TitoThePencilPimp]

57 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Assuming the Reddit post uses a 5mm dot grid, I believe it’s about the same; the user merely has a different, larger, cleaner cursive style than mine. 
 

Anyway, found the sweet spot for me, the Pilot “Fine Medium” nib, or “FM.” 
 

Leuchtturm paper. 
1st: Pilot Custom 823 (Fine), Pilot Iroshizuku Yama-guri ink

2nd: Pilot Custom Heritage 912 (Fine-Medium), Sailor Shikiori Rikyu-cha Ink

3rd: Pilot Custom 845 (Medium), Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black ink

That said, the paper itself heavily influences the pen needed, so the 845 isn’t going to waste. 
 

And what I didn’t realize, is that the 912 and 743 grip sections are interchangeable with the 845 body. So if I feel like swapping the 912 FM nib in the 845 Urushi lacquered body, it’s no problem if the smaller #10 size nib and silver accent doesn’t bother me. 
 

 

Crazy 🙂

interesting that the 912 and 845 grip sections are interchangeable. never thought of doing this with my own pens lol.