Pen identification

[gamblingflex]

It's a Waterman's ideal (supposedly made from bakelite), that's clear - but does anyone have a model name or explanation for the names inscribed on the barrel? Many thanks

[crescentfiller]

It is made of celluloid, not Bakelite, despite what the ebay listing stated. And, as the listing noted, the two names denote the previous owners. Pen companies offered free engraving as a sales tactic: you could have your name engraved on the pen when you bought it new. Apparently these two had their names engraved on this pen. It looks like a model 32, but that period and range is tricky, so I am not certain. Look at the butt end of the barrel for a number. It will be heat stamped in the end--if it is present (they didn't always do it). That number is the model number.

 

[shalitha33]

Possibly lady Patricia, color would be perssian. But let me check 

[crescentfiller]

2 minutes ago, shalitha33 said:

Possibly lady Patricia, color would be perssian. But let me check 

 

I thought that at first, but wrong clip and wrong band and wrong butt end. Or so I believe. And wrong lever for a Lady Patricia.

[shalitha33]

Yes you are right. page 88 of Max Davis, Gary Lehrer's book has a picture of a 94 Persian with the rivet clip. Book shows as ca1930 -1938. let me hunt for a catalog of this range to confirm.

[gamblingflex]

8 minutes ago, crescentfiller said:

It is made of celluloid, not Bakelite, despite what the ebay listing stated. And, as the listing noted, the two names denote the previous owners. Pen companies offered free engraving as a sales tactic: you could have your name engraved on the pen when you bought it new. Apparently these two had their names engraved on this pen. It looks like a model 32, but that period and range is tricky, so I am not certain. Look at the butt end of the barrel for a number. It will be heat stamped in the end--if it is present (they didn't always do it). That number is the model number.

 

Ah I see, I did read about it being the name of owners but there's no harm in double checking with others with greater expertise. Was the 32 made in such a colour though?

[shalitha33]

I am no expert and can be 100% wrong in here.

You can find some pictures of pencils here with original coloring. Barrel looks a bit discolored which is normal for these celluloids, its near impossible to find one without any discoloration. 
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/335292-what-makes-the-persian-color-so-rare-and-desirable/
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/305073-what-is-persian-celluloid-supposed-to-look-like/

Do you know how thick the barrel is, that will tell you if its a 9x or a 3x . also the number engraved on the nib will tell you if its a x2 or x4. assuming the number is not imprinted on the base of the barrel / not readable.

Do check to see if there are any cracks at the end of the barrel. These do rot and crumble. once the process starts as far as I know it cant be stopped :(. 

[crescentfiller]

11 hours ago, shalitha33 said:

Yes you are right. page 88 of Max Davis, Gary Lehrer's book has a picture of a 94 Persian with the rivet clip. Book shows as ca1930 -1938. let me hunt for a catalog of this range to confirm.

 

And this too, but the OP's pen looks too short for a 94. All the other elements line up though. As you say, the nib will tell!

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/403900850699?hash=item5e0a5de20b%3Ag%3AT1sAAOSwk7JjLNN1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsI7QNP0EcIFcdmDK%2BiZnNtgdHKB1kgxiIaO3Y%2FJWttrbTSZBgycxTu7Yq1blUpDxq9XAdWw8pXM8YdAqgiWvH1XBC4ygDgTP9CQ6UX85s72bl6OO7eAP9F7qRC%2F%2B7cVegV2YhQId2UGY2%2Bb5TCgArejSMgVOhnBVJy6ZtPxYnno%2F3XpRzzye9COkCvtYn7qy437qKAelCz4C1tw5Z6AqxO9BvqxZBbjmIvvY4pLANOZw|tkp%3ABk9SR8jJ7J2BYQ&nma=true&si=kUgAG6%2F9%2FYZVlFkGJ9k1%2Bs30fyU%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[shalitha33]

Interestingly there seems to be a 52v Persian model.  I wish early 1930s catalogs that are online were like the 1925 one , with all the models and all color combinations listed in them . 

 

https://willowstrongpens.com/2017/08/01/waterman-52v-persian-super-flex-2/

http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=38&lot=1408

[crescentfiller]

"Interestingly there seems to be a 52v Persian model. "

 

I am not convinced, at least not by what is shown in the link. The photo of the butt end is utterly out of focus and nothing can be seen, let alone a 52V stamp. I've seen several 92s with all these elements, so it would follow that there would be 32s, but a 52V? I need more evidence.

Yes! If only there were proper catalogs available!

[KandyPenz]

This post and its attached image could be useful ?