Assistance identifying a Parker pen

[Big Seaweed]

Hello,

 

I recently purchased a Parker (pictures attached) as part of a larger lot of pens from an auction. I'm not sure that the auction house understood exactly what they were selling- the only pens they actually named were 2 Jinhao x450s.

 

However, I'm not 100% certain as to the specific model of this Parker. From my research so far, I think it's some variant of the 17, but I would be grateful if anyone could confirm, or help identify the pen.

 

The design seems most consistent with the 17, but the thin metal band around the edge of the cap, and the lack of metal cap on the end of the barrel give me cause to hesitate. That and the lack of jewel in the finial. The aerometric converter has the instructions "To fill, press ribbed bar at least five times", "Parker", and "The Parker Pen Co. Ltd. London, England." engraved. 

 

Also- if anyone has any clues as to whether the pen could be disassembled further than simply unscrewing the barrel, I would appreciate any information I can get. I've tried twisting & pulling on the converter to no effect, and thus far cleaning the thing out has been challenging.

 

Many thanks

 

[Mercian]

Hi, and welcome to FPN 

 

the important bit first:

the squeeze-fill unit in your pen is not a converter that you can simply pull out; it is a built-in filling system called ‘aerometric’. It can be removed if you want to service the pen, but it’s not a casual job for the idle tinkerer, what with the front end of the pen being glued together with shellac.

The system was invented in the late 1940s, and it is very, very reliable. The plastic sac will last indefinitely. The one on your pen is still clear, so it probably hasn’t seen that much ink down the years. Most of the pens that turn up for sale have got stained sacs. Those do usually still work perfectly, but one can no longer tell how much ink is left inside them.

 

That said, there are some inks that won’t stain it - e.g. I use Rohrer & Klingner’s iron-gall ink called ‘Salix’ in my own aerometric-fill Parker “51”s, and have previously used Noodler’s Black in them without staining their sacs.

To my surprise, Waterman ‘Serenity Blue’ - a washable blue ink - stained the sac of one of my “51”s, but luckily the stains were removed by my next fill of Salix.

The main disadvantage of the aerometric fill system is, as you have found, that it can take ages to clean old ink out of the pen if you wish to switch between inks, or to put the pen in to storage for a while. It’s even worse if you let ink dry-out in it (I found that out the hard way).

I would also advise against using a pigment-based ink in this pen, in case it clogs the ink ‘collector’ in the front end.

 

As for the model:

I, like you, think that it is one of the models of the 17. To be more-specific, one from after 1968.

The 17 was derived from the English Parker Duofold. According to Tony Fischier's webpage for the UK Duofold, in that year the cap on the various models of 17 was redesigned to be very similar to those of the Parker 45.
If you scroll most of the way down that page, to the advertising image with the blue background, you will see a pen that is very similar to yours, but has a different-shaped cap.
The information about the cap redesign is in the paragraph underneath the image with the blue background.

 

I don’t know how one would tell the ‘Parker 17’ model from the ‘Lady Parker 17’ model, but perhaps a better-informed member can let you know.

 

Slàinte,

M.

 

 

 

 

[Number99]

  On 10/17/2022 at 11:24 PM, Big Seaweed said:

Hello,

 

I recently purchased a Parker (pictures attached) as part of a larger lot of pens from an auction. I'm not sure that the auction house understood exactly what they were selling- the only pens they actually named were 2 Jinhao x450s.

 

However, I'm not 100% certain as to the specific model of this Parker. From my research so far, I think it's some variant of the 17, but I would be grateful if anyone could confirm, or help identify the pen.

 

The design seems most consistent with the 17, but the thin metal band around the edge of the cap, and the lack of metal cap on the end of the barrel give me cause to hesitate. That and the lack of jewel in the finial. The aerometric converter has the instructions "To fill, press ribbed bar at least five times", "Parker", and "The Parker Pen Co. Ltd. London, England." engraved. 

 

Also- if anyone has any clues as to whether the pen could be disassembled further than simply unscrewing the barrel, I would appreciate any information I can get. I've tried twisting & pulling on the converter to no effect, and thus far cleaning the thing out has been challenging.

 

Many thanks

 

Expand  

I am not familiar with the Parker 17, but I checked the Parker 17 Lady Insignia at hand.

The length of the pen is 111.7~8mm (about 112mm) by simple measurement. Compare this to other Parker 17 lengths.

The length of the 17 Lady (Insignia) should be different from other 17s.

They are very similar in appearance except for the cap and barrel material and then the cap top tassie is dimple type on mine. (I think you need to check the length difference for identification)

 

I do not have the (17) Lady Standard, but I believe they are different pens.

 

As for cleaning the pens, I would recommend adjusting the cleaning solution and using an ultrasonic cleaner and taking the time to clean them carefully and rinse them thoroughly.

I usually give the pens I pick up from the wild at least 3 days to clean.

Sometimes it takes 1-3 weeks or even a month or more.

[vicpen123]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:27 AM, Mercian said:

the squeeze-fill unit in your pen is not a converter that you can simply pull out; it is a built-in filling system called ‘aerometric’.

 

 

Expand  

It is not a convertor but it is also not a true aerometric with a breather tube that, I believe, only existed in the "51".

[joss]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:07 AM, vicpen123 said:

It is not a convertor but it is also not a true aerometric with a breather tube that, I believe, only existed in the "51".

Expand  

 

The Aero-metric filler with open end is also found in the Parker 51 Special and in the 2nd version of the Parker 51 Demi Aerometric. 

[dipper]

This is how I have cleaned layers of old dried ink from a few Parker UK Duofold pens from the 1950s and 1960s, not having an ultrasonic cleaner:

 

Add a few drops of "dish-soap" (US) a.k.a. "washing-up liquid" (UK), or dishwasher "rinse-aid" liquid, to a glass of plain water.

 

Fill the pen with your water mixture.

 

Stand the pen upright with its nib downwards resting on one corner of a paper kitchen towel. (The pen can be propped up against any convenient object.) Placing the cap onto the back of the pen body ("posting" the cap) can add a little weight to help keep the pen nib in good contact with the paper.

 

After half an hour, or maybe a few hours if the pen is badly clogged, the water will have drained slowly through the pens internal feed and nib slit and out into the paper towel. Sometimes the colours produced are interesting.

 

Refill the pen with more of the water mixture, stand the pen on another clean paper towel, and repeat - as many times as necessary.

 

The method is slow, but it has the advantage of giving all the dried ink plenty of time to dissolve. Also, deep inside the pen, the slow steady flow of water will be passing through the same narrow fissures and other places that your ink will be moving through later when the pen is in use.

 

When the last paper towel used is found to be relatively clean you can consider the ink-removal job done. Then give the pen a few fills of plain water, squeezed out with the aerometric filler ("flushing"), to wash away most of the detergent remaining in the pen, then fill with ink and see how well it writes..☺🤗☺.

[Big Seaweed]

Thanks folks, this is some brilliant info about this pen - the sort of stuff I'd hoped for.

 

As for staining the ink sac, I'll have to see how I get on - I've Faber-Castell Moss Green in there at present, and have yet to notice any problems, but we're talking only a matter of a week or so, and not actual long term pen-sat-in-ink. It's really helpful though to know that it definitely can't be taken apart further- I may have damaged the thing trying to do so.

 

Plus, patience is a clearly useful virtue here! Appreciate the tips on cleaning it out. I may empty it, give it a proper once-over to make sure the feed is as cleaned out as it can be, and then re-ink.

 

I've found useful a Jacques Herbin solution for cleaning pens out, it seems to be a mild citric solution and is very effective at lifting inks from surfaces - should I be concerned about this affecting the sac at all? Or am I best to stick with the tried-and-true washing-up liquid & warm water?

[Number99]

  On 10/20/2022 at 6:26 PM, Big Seaweed said:

Thanks folks, this is some brilliant info about this pen - the sort of stuff I'd hoped for.

 

As for staining the ink sac, I'll have to see how I get on - I've Faber-Castell Moss Green in there at present, and have yet to notice any problems, but we're talking only a matter of a week or so, and not actual long term pen-sat-in-ink. It's really helpful though to know that it definitely can't be taken apart further- I may have damaged the thing trying to do so.

 

Plus, patience is a clearly useful virtue here! Appreciate the tips on cleaning it out. I may empty it, give it a proper once-over to make sure the feed is as cleaned out as it can be, and then re-ink.

 

I've found useful a Jacques Herbin solution for cleaning pens out, it seems to be a mild citric solution and is very effective at lifting inks from surfaces - should I be concerned about this affecting the sac at all? Or am I best to stick with the tried-and-true washing-up liquid & warm water?

Expand  

Everyone seems to be different when it comes to cleaning solutions for fountain pens. Each of us has different circumstances, such as regional standards for the equipment and chemicals we own, different prices, and the condition of the water available for use.

I always clean in an ultrasonic cleaner, from dish detergent solution → dish detergent solution + sodium bicarbonate solution → rinse.

If the pen's performance still does not recover, I use a 1000mg/20ml ascorbic acid solution.

Some people use dish detergent solution and ammonia water, others use vinegar.

If you have a small number of pens and do not have your own method, commercial solutions may be fine.

But perhaps they are considered solutions for cleaning pens in operation.

Be aware that they may not be designed to clean pens that have had ink dried on them for decades, so if you follow the instructions, they may not work.

 

Try searching this for threads about cleaning that are suitable for you.

You won't see more efficient and vastly different search results.

Pinned to the Fountain & Dip Pens - First Stop subforum.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/228608-f-p-n-google-search/

 

 

And Please let us know when you are done identifying the pens when you can, I am also very curious as to what your pen is.

 

 

[Big Seaweed]

  On 10/18/2022 at 9:52 AM, Number99 said:

The length of the pen is 111.7~8mm (about 112mm) by simple measurement. Compare this to other Parker 17 lengths.

The length of the 17 Lady (Insignia) should be different from other 17s.

Expand  

This pen is 108mm uncapped, 118mm capped and 124mm posted, by my measuring. I've no other 17s, so nothing to directly compare to. Would you say from this that my pen is likely the Insignia? Is this a significant enough difference?

 

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:07 AM, vicpen123 said:

It is not a convertor but it is also not a true aerometric with a breather tube that, I believe, only existed in the "51".

Expand  

Interestingly, this one does appear to have a breather tube in it. Note that to take this picture I did temporarily remove the bar. Appreciate it may be difficult to see with ink still in there!

 

Edit: I also meant to ask - the pen seems to write very, very wet, and I'll sometimes get a drop or 2 of ink spill when I uncap the pen - is this a problem common to 17s?

Edited October 26, 2022 by Big Seaweed

[Number99]

  On 10/26/2022 at 4:32 PM, Big Seaweed said:

This pen is 108mm uncapped, 118mm capped and 124mm posted, by my measuring. I've no other 17s, so nothing to directly compare to. Would you say from this that my pen is likely the Insignia? Is this a significant enough difference?

 

Interestingly, this one does appear to have a breather tube in it. Note that to take this picture I did temporarily remove the bar. Appreciate it may be difficult to see with ink still in there!

 

Edit: I also meant to ask - the pen seems to write very, very wet, and I'll sometimes get a drop or 2 of ink spill when I uncap the pen - is this a problem common to 17s?

Expand  

Sorry.

My measurement error.

Without the cap it was 108mm (not including the nib).

With the cap it was 118mm.

The size of the pen matched. Therefore I think your pen is a Parker 17 lady.

Insignia is the name of a pen with a rolled gold finish on the cap & barrel. So the Insignia designation is omitted.

 

Also...the ink leakage is different from my pen.

If it is caused by severe decompression of the ink channel when removing the cap, you may be able to remedy this by holding the pen in one hand and slowly removing the cap with your thumb and index finger.(Please operate all with one hand.)

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Number99
Added sentence in ().