Asvine P20- Cue the Leonardo Moral Outrage

[amberleadavis]

25 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

@amberleadavis Is the Kaigelu NMF nib “insanely broad expressive” enough? The Asvine P20 uses the same sort of nib unit in a Majohn, so I'm confident that if I can fit that nib into a Majohn T5 (which does not have a removable nib unit, but nevertheless), it will fit into an Asvine P20.

 

I don't know. I prefer stubs, but for the price, I'm going to try it.

[Mech-for-i]

Expressive writing do not require a flex nib , nor soft nib , nor broad nib , while I do not claim to be a calligrapher , I know a lot about penmanship and calligraphy , living with an established calligrapher （ my mom ) for a long time and got to know expressive writing can be done with all kind of writing tools 

 

I think the long held belief that we need a BB or flex to do expressive penmanship is overrated and with too much of an entrenched prejudice

 

As for Narwhal, well , I had to agree their marketing erks towards being misleading at best and downright deceiving at worst , one just do not go around saying one's product are done all " in house " if that product actually are mostly design , manufacture and assembly by OEM on proven parts , that all is ok by themselves but not ok is the way they are marketed and presented .. acid etching the feed , that's a laugh , even Jinhao do it , it's very much now an industry routine in the manufacturing for many 

 

And that is why as much as I love the hobby , am not too keen on many of the bespoke brands or independent pen turning names , sure they might had very good craftsmanship but in the end it's still glorified nib holder for a Jowo / Bock where even Hero / Moonman / Delike actually do made PENS , and so do the Japanese big 3 and the like of Parker , Pelikan , etc etc ....

 

If the like of P-20 drive the other ( usually non Chinese ) to devolve more into actually designing and making a pen , I say Bravo ..

[uaexemarat]

20 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

@amberleadavis Is the Kaigelu NMF nib “insanely broad expressive” enough? The Asvine P20 uses the same sort of nib unit in a Majohn, so I'm confident that if I can fit that nib into a Majohn T5 (which does not have a removable nib unit, but nevertheless), it will fit into an Asvine P20.

 

More fun info: The Pelikan M200 nib unit threads thread perfectly into a Majohn #5 section. (Except for the location of the threads, which is too far forward in the pslikan)

[early]

15 hours ago, Mech-for-i said:

If the like of P-20 drive the other ( usually non Chinese ) to devolve more into actually designing and making a pen , I say Bravo ..

 

Narwhal is doing this, so I don't get your position on them. They released an ebonite pen. Clearly their OEM(s) are doing Asvine too. It's not worth it for them to fight Chinese domestic brands in the sub $40 price point.

 

"At least [Chinese pen manufacturer] makes pens!" is a bit silly considering how consolidated the OEM scene is in China.

[Mech-for-i]

5 hours ago, early said:

 

Narwhal is doing this, so I don't get your position on them. ...

 I respect their effort to improve upon themselves , but equally am not impressed by their less than truly honest marketing , it's not contradictory..

 

It's with many brand / fashion / accessories names , OEM is not evil it's just how business works it's perfectly fine , what though these names been wrong is usually in the mostly deceiving marketing and it's not just fountain pens ..

 

In a twist the big name stationary / pen maker actually are more open and honest .. and clearly label their products .. Parker , Cross , Pilot ... etc .. 

[Mech-for-i]

6 hours ago, uaexemarat said:

 

More fun info: The Pelikan M200 nib unit threads thread perfectly into a Majohn #5 section. (Except for the location of the threads, which is too far forward in the pslikan)

 

Standard threading size , thank for metric sizing

[early]

13 hours ago, Mech-for-i said:

In a twist the big name stationary / pen maker actually are more open and honest .. and clearly label their products .. Parker , Cross , Pilot ... etc .. 

 

Really? Parker is selling Jinhao pens for their new steel 51s...

[VillersCotterets]

Three new resins similar if not identical to PenBBS's resins : Amber (is a cat), Galaxy, Blue Marble.

[amper]

Coming to this only because I've only just seen an Asvine P20 for the first time, on Amazon, and I wanted to note that California has very stringent laws on what can or cannot be labelled as being "Made in California", to the point where long-standing California manufacturers have been forced to removed "Made in California" from their products, because one or two components may have come from Germany, as an example. This is the case with Ernie Ball Music Man guitars and basses, which up until a few years ago all said, "Made in San Luis Obispo, CA" on the back of the headstock, and now say, "California Heritage", because they source their tuning machines from Schaller, which are made in Germany.

I wouldn't put too much stock in what Internet sleuths have to say about who is "really" making whose pens. It's far more likely that a Chinese company copied a Taiwanese company's design than that the Taiwanese company is lying about where their pens are made, and let's not forget that TWSBI actually sued Narwhal/Nahvalur over their design similarities.

[Ted A]

Did TWSBI actually sue? I thought they just tried to strong arm retailers. 

[SeaFoamPen]

I read online that TWSBI did start a lawsuit claiming patent infringement, but  their design is based on a patent by Kovacs which expired in the first have of the 1900's - sorry I don' t recall the exact date.

 

If it's possible to refile for an expired patent, TWSBI missed the boat.

 

(I will add that I have some Eco's for years and no issues with cracking. I do live in a humid and temperate climate, so that may be part of it, and I've never needed to take them apart. I got a Nahvalur after reading about how great the nibs are - the one I got is dry and skips. All the TWSBI nibs have been well behaved from day one.  )