New 149 Expressive Nib released in December?

[JulieParadise]

47 minutes ago, invisuu said:

 

Am I the only one that is bothered by the jagged lines? I really like my nibs to put down solid lines with crisp edges. I also saw the video and the nib seems to write beautifully, put from the picture it doesn't look like it puts down crisp lines. 

 

This nib is very well capable of putting down smooth lines that are straight all the way to the edges. The people you mention surely (the one above) or probably (I don't know which ones you are referring to specifically) are using the pen in a certain manner and produce their writing/lettering deliberately in the way shown. 

[invisuu]

8 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

 

This nib is very well capable of putting down smooth lines that are straight all the way to the edges. The people you mention surely (the one above) or probably (I don't know which ones you are referring to specifically) are using the pen in a certain manner and produce their writing/lettering deliberately in the way shown. 

 

If you understand how a fountain pen works, that makes no sense whatsoever...the contact surface is either flat or it isn't. The jagged edges come from imperfections in contact surface of the nib not being planar. And I have sent a Montblanc 149 back to Montblanc precisely because of this issue before.

 

My question was if I am the only one bothered by this to such an extent, or do others not mind and just use such a nib as is...

[axio]

Could you try highlight the jagged lines you referred to? I'll see if mine has the same behavior

1 hour ago, invisuu said:

 

If you understand how a fountain pen works, that makes no sense whatsoever...the contact surface is either flat or it isn't. The jagged edges come from imperfections in contact surface of the nib not being planar. And I have sent a Montblanc 149 back to Montblanc precisely because of this issue before.

 

My question was if I am the only one bothered by this to such an extent, or do others not mind and just use such a nib as is...

 

[pix]

In my experience, when the curved nib is held such as to make full contact with the paper (i.e., producing the thickest line), the line is perfectly "straight", no jagged edges. When held at intermediate angles, however, jagged edges can be produced on horizontal strokes. I think it has to do with the geometry of the nib: there is a transition point from the part of the nib that makes contact with the paper to the part of the nib that doesn't, and this transition spot (depending maybe also on paper type, writing speed, ink, etc.) is where ink delivery to the paper is not perfectly tamed. On a standard nib, that transition is more ball-like; in this curved nib (when held at intermediate angles) the transition from "paper contact" to "not paper contact" is more abrupt. Just my theory, of course, I could be completely wrong!

[invisuu]

2 hours ago, axio said:

Could you try highlight the jagged lines you referred to? I'll see if mine has the same behavior

 

 

I marked it with thin red lines - check out the edges there. The more I look into this picture, the more I see that the bottom of the nib's contact surface is improperly finished (because he wrote this at a 90 degrees angle), whereas the top looks OK. On the right side of the picture, for comparison, a perfectly tuned nib; all edges are crisp and full. This makes even more sense now considering what @pix wrote - this pen, too, has the issue of imperfect transitions along the vertical of the nib.

 

1 hour ago, pix said:

In my experience, when the curved nib is held such as to make full contact with the paper (i.e., producing the thickest line), the line is perfectly "straight", no jagged edges. When held at intermediate angles, however, jagged edges can be produced on horizontal strokes. I think it has to do with the geometry of the nib: there is a transition point from the part of the nib that makes contact with the paper to the part of the nib that doesn't, and this transition spot (depending maybe also on paper type, writing speed, ink, etc.) is where ink delivery to the paper is not perfectly tamed. On a standard nib, that transition is more ball-like; in this curved nib (when held at intermediate angles) the transition from "paper contact" to "not paper contact" is more abrupt. Just my theory, of course, I could be completely wrong!

But again, if the nib is perfectly finished, this shouldn't happen. What you described makes perfect sense. The nib isn't one continuous curve but it has imperfections along the line.

 

What you wrote about the paper is true - more waxed paper requires less surface tension of the ink to spill, but it also doesn't have pronounced paper fibers to absorb the ink into. The upside is the lines are crisp and nice, but the downside is you can't have super fine strokes, something very much appreciated by flexier nibs. On the other hand, paper with higher surface roughness requires more surface tension for the ink to spill, so you can get super thin hairlines (because the ink pools on paper and doesn't spill), but the ink absorbs into paper fibers, giving you less crispy lines. However, what we see here isn't down to paper, but nib finish. I don't want to get into details to avoid being too long, but imperfect nib finish gives you jagged edges, rougher paper gives you a more "spiky" look all around, unlike what we see here where you can literally observe the portion of the nib with imperfect finish.

 

Anyway, my question still is: does this bother anyone else or is it just me? Am I overly pedantic about this? I personally can't stand (as in passionately hate) such lines. It's okay if you call me weird for this. I return the pen or if possible send it back for tuning or to a nibmeister.

[JulieParadise]

3 hours ago, invisuu said:

 

If you understand how a fountain pen works, that makes no sense whatsoever...the contact surface is either flat or it isn't. The jagged edges come from imperfections in contact surface of the nib not being planar. And I have sent a Montblanc 149 back to Montblanc precisely because of this issue before.

 

My question was if I am the only one bothered by this to such an extent, or do others not mind and just use such a nib as is...

 

Sure, you're right, I understand nothing about fountain pen nibs and how these work. Montblanc did a poor job; these nibs are all faulty. Thank you for enlightening me. 

[invisuu]

26 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

 

Sure, you're right, I understand nothing about fountain pen nibs and how these work. Montblanc did a poor job; these nibs are all faulty. Thank you for enlightening me. 

 

That's neither an argument nor an answer to my question. Try again, or don't, I don't really care. Goodbye.

[JulieParadise]

46 minutes ago, invisuu said:

 

That's neither an argument nor an answer to my question. Try again, or don't, I don't really care. Goodbye.

 

Well, so: One can create jagged edges with any pen if the italic nib is just broad enough when you just hold the pen in a specific way. This was done deliberately, as you can tell from the video. I can do it with stubs and Sailor music nibs as well as with Pilot parallel pens that are capable of producing a crisp broad line as well as creating the kind of jagged line you seem to perceive as faulty or: showing the lines of a faulty nib.

 

It is, I'd still insist on, in the case you chose for demonstration not the nib that is faulty but the artist using it deliberately to achieve this look, holding it at an angle, lifting in a certain rhythm and thus producing these lines. My Pilot Parallel Pens in 1.5 mm, 2.4 mm, and 3.8 mm also have perfect ink flow and can put down a crisp line all the way filled up to the edges, but once I hold them at an angle the result looks jagged. If the pen is nearing the end of its ink filling or the ink becomes a bit more saturated, this helps to achieve this effect.

 

Still, the nib is not faulty, as there are other factors at work here. (Although, of course, there may also be faulty nibs around, for sure, but not in this case where we even have a video showing just what I described.)

 

Uff.

[axio]

17 hours ago, invisuu said:

 

I marked it with thin red lines - check out the edges there. The more I look into this picture, the more I see that the bottom of the nib's contact surface is improperly finished (because he wrote this at a 90 degrees angle), whereas the top looks OK. On the right side of the picture, for comparison, a perfectly tuned nib; all edges are crisp and full. This makes even more sense now considering what @pix wrote - this pen, too, has the issue of imperfect transitions along the vertical of the nib.

 

But again, if the nib is perfectly finished, this shouldn't happen. What you described makes perfect sense. The nib isn't one continuous curve but it has imperfections along the line.

 

What you wrote about the paper is true - more waxed paper requires less surface tension of the ink to spill, but it also doesn't have pronounced paper fibers to absorb the ink into. The upside is the lines are crisp and nice, but the downside is you can't have super fine strokes, something very much appreciated by flexier nibs. On the other hand, paper with higher surface roughness requires more surface tension for the ink to spill, so you can get super thin hairlines (because the ink pools on paper and doesn't spill), but the ink absorbs into paper fibers, giving you less crispy lines. However, what we see here isn't down to paper, but nib finish. I don't want to get into details to avoid being too long, but imperfect nib finish gives you jagged edges, rougher paper gives you a more "spiky" look all around, unlike what we see here where you can literally observe the portion of the nib with imperfect finish.

 

Anyway, my question still is: does this bother anyone else or is it just me? Am I overly pedantic about this? I personally can't stand (as in passionately hate) such lines. It's okay if you call me weird for this. I return the pen or if possible send it back for tuning or to a nibmeister.

That's an interesting observation. Looking at my left handed writing (I'm rightie), I do observe this jagged behavior.

If I were to guess, this is the nature of this flat footed nib. When the tilting angle is high enough to prevent the lower part of the nib to come into contact to the paper, ink dispenses through the gap via surface tension, hence the apparent in-homogeneity in the lower edge of the line.

 

To be fair though, my hand-writing is far from artistic enough for me to nitpick these fine details. Probably a calligraphy lesson will do me more good, than a masterpiece grind.

[invisuu]

16 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

 

Well, so: One can create jagged edges with any pen if the italic nib is just broad enough when you just hold the pen in a specific way. This was done deliberately, as you can tell from the video. I can do it with stubs and Sailor music nibs as well as with Pilot parallel pens that are capable of producing a crisp broad line as well as creating the kind of jagged line you seem to perceive as faulty or: showing the lines of a faulty nib.

 

It is, I'd still insist on, in the case you chose for demonstration not the nib that is faulty but the artist using it deliberately to achieve this look, holding it at an angle, lifting in a certain rhythm and thus producing these lines. My Pilot Parallel Pens in 1.5 mm, 2.4 mm, and 3.8 mm also have perfect ink flow and can put down a crisp line all the way filled up to the edges, but once I hold them at an angle the result looks jagged. If the pen is nearing the end of its ink filling or the ink becomes a bit more saturated, this helps to achieve this effect.

 

Still, the nib is not faulty, as there are other factors at work here. (Although, of course, there may also be faulty nibs around, for sure, but not in this case where we even have a video showing just what I described.)

 

Uff.

Yes, you can achieve - or not - this look with a Pilot Parallel precisely because it's not a flat contact surface. It has tiny little holes and if not all of them are in contact with the paper, you get jagged lines. Thus, this works precisely against your argument, because it is the same mechanism by which an inadequately finished "standard" nib achieves this.

 

I don't believe you can achieve crisp edges with the nib in video - at this exact angle at least, because this nib is dependent on writing angle - regardless of what you do. I didn't say it's a faulty nib, it's an imperfectly finished nib. I specifically mentioned that variation in finish of the nib is so small, that I wonder if I am the only one who is even bothered by this. I hate dragging others into this dialogue, but even in this thread another owner of this pen confirmed the same observation with his pen.

 

1 hour ago, axio said:

That's an interesting observation. Looking at my left handed writing (I'm rightie), I do observe this jagged behavior.

If I were to guess, this is the nature of this flat footed nib. When the tilting angle is high enough to prevent the lower part of the nib to come into contact to the paper, ink dispenses through the gap via surface tension, hence the apparent in-homogeneity in the lower edge of the line.

 

To be fair though, my hand-writing is far from artistic enough for me to nitpick these fine details. Probably a calligraphy lesson will do me more good, than a masterpiece grind.

 

To be honest working on my calligraphy would also be more impactful on my writing than ironing out these small imperfections on the nib grind. But when we're paying 1k+€ for 20g of plastic and 7g of gold, I think we can be nitpicky anyway...

[dftr]

 

 

Although he's right handed, I really liked his handwriting:)  And he demonstrates well the capabilities of the nib.

The curved nib still remains an intriguing and irresistible nib.  I've actually had to rest the MB flex calligraphy out of rotation so that I don't pick it up by mistake instead of the curved.  

I have other architect nibs and they're similar... but I like the feel of the MB.  I'm looking forward to their next special edition nib... 

 

 

[dftr]

Another writer who uses the Curved nib again differently, in more of a cursive script.

It looks like he's writing on Seyes paper to give an idea of the size.  I like the close up detail to see the stroke works produced

 

 

[Frank C]

I've been considering the purchase of one of these since December. At that time, I couldn't find one. They seem to be readily available, now. I've enjoyed seeing all the demonstrations of this nib. I guess that it is now time to purchase one. 

 

[dftr]

6 hours ago, Frank C said:

I've been considering the purchase of one of these since December. At that time, I couldn't find one. They seem to be readily available, now. I've enjoyed seeing all the demonstrations of this nib. I guess that it is now time to purchase one. 

 

Yes.  The MB flex is also available again.  I enjoy the flex nib, but the curved nib has steadily taken more prominence in my use.  I don't expect it to be a popular as the flex but I'm happy to find other people demonstrating how they use it.  I have found my preferred style after seeing various ways people hold it.  I even will use it to annotate by flipping it.  I can't say I've been crazy about Fude nibs, but thinking of this as a mini Fude / architect gives me idea to try Fude again.  

 

If you make a purchase, pls show how you use it!  

[SpecTP]

On 6/20/2023 at 11:33 PM, dftr said:

Yes.  The MB flex is also available again.  I enjoy the flex nib, but the curved nib has steadily taken more prominence in my use.  I don't expect it to be a popular as the flex but I'm happy to find other people demonstrating how they use it.  I have found my preferred style after seeing various ways people hold it.  I even will use it to annotate by flipping it.  I can't say I've been crazy about Fude nibs, but thinking of this as a mini Fude / architect gives me idea to try Fude again.  

 

If you make a purchase, pls show how you use it!  

 

I have yet to spot a MB 149 flex available at any brick and mortar. Were you referring to the Le Grand flex?

[dftr]

Sorry to get your hopes up.  I had gotten an email from a retailer that the 149 was back in stock.

I kind of chuckled b/c it had been such a long time... and when I look at their site, they are once again sold out (both the 149 and 146!).

 

[Frank C]

On 6/20/2023 at 8:33 PM, dftr said:

Yes.  The MB flex is also available again.  I enjoy the flex nib, but the curved nib has steadily taken more prominence in my use.  I don't expect it to be a popular as the flex but I'm happy to find other people demonstrating how they use it.  I have found my preferred style after seeing various ways people hold it.  I even will use it to annotate by flipping it.  I can't say I've been crazy about Fude nibs, but thinking of this as a mini Fude / architect gives me idea to try Fude again.  

 

If you make a purchase, pls show how you use it!  

I have a Sailor pen with the Fude de Mannen nib. While I enjoyed using it briefly, I never really found much use for it. I do like the idea of having a mini Fude/architect; architect nibs are one of my favorite modifications. I do enjoy seeing how people use this nib. Now I just have to figure out my finances so I can purchase one. I will show how I use it once I receive it. 

[como]

A comparison between MB Curved Nib, Sailor KOP Naginata Togi (M), Sailor KOP Naginata Togi (MF).

 

 

I think MB Curved is very similar to Naginata Togi size M. Perhaps the Naginata Togi size M is just very slightly narrower. 

 

They are both fantastic pens, the MB 149 and Sailor KOP, and Curved Nib and Naginata Togi. The KOP Naginata Togi feels slightly softer, but as I don't need to flex these nibs, it doesn't matter. 

 

Photo 1: Paper Amatruda (thanks to a dear friend); Ink Sailor Black.

Photo 2: Paper Tomoe River 52gsm; Ink Sailor Black

The grids were drawn at 45 degrees with even pressure.

 

[ak47]

fantastic and useful pictures!

 

[como]

@ak47 Thank you. You are welcome! Come to think of it, the MB Curved is pretty good value, for being a direct comparable to Sailor KOP size Naginata Togi, in one of the most iconic models ever of fountain pens (with it, piston filler). The Saikor ebonite KOP Naginata Togi is so expensive now. The advantage is that Sailor’s Naginata comes with three widths, MF, M and B while the MB is just one size.