Any idea what's going on with La Couronne du Comte?

[DvdRiet]

This may also be (mostly) more of a cultural thing, but I think even in the US, you would be hard-pressed to find any retailer who would first send you the goods and then wait for you to send them a check, not to mention one that won't bounce. I think that's probably also one of the things that helped the cc culture become so imbedded in the US for decades now. There are things that can be done when a business doesn't deliver, including at the very least putting their reputation at risk (hence the surge in online reviews!). It's harder (more expensive, mostly) for a retailer who has delivered something to make the one who has ordered it actually pay. Before everything was electronic, it was also common practice for companies to wait until they received payment on their bank accounts before sending an item. Or deposits for larger items and cash payments on delivery for the rest. Normally, the system of prepayment works just fine when dealing with a legitimate and reputable retailer. A (sudden) bankruptcy is another issue altogether. (We can argue when the reputation of LCdC became bad enough to be a real risk, but I think I'll leave that discussion for 'another day,' as they say... )

[MarcoA63]

the shop went bankrupt, in case you didn't know. do what you can to get tour money back asap!!!

[XYZZY]

53 minutes ago, DvdRiet said:

This may also be (mostly) more of a cultural thing, but I think even in the US, you would be hard-pressed to find any retailer who would first send you the goods and then wait for you to send them a check, not to mention one that won't bounce. I think that's probably also one of the things that helped the cc culture become so imbedded in the US for decades now. There are things that can be done when a business doesn't deliver, including at the very least putting their reputation at risk (hence the surge in online reviews!). It's harder (more expensive, mostly) for a retailer who has delivered something to make the one who has ordered it actually pay. Before everything was electronic, it was also common practice for companies to wait until they received payment on their bank accounts before sending an item. Or deposits for larger items and cash payments on delivery for the rest. Normally, the system of prepayment works just fine when dealing with a legitimate and reputable retailer. A (sudden) bankruptcy is another issue altogether. (We can argue when the reputation of LCdC became bad enough to be a real risk, but I think I'll leave that discussion for 'another day,' as they say... )

 

I remember buying electronics (resistors, capacitors, chip, in addition to home audio electronics), and camera gear in the 80s when "mail order" meant that I flipped through the add in the magazine, wrote the order down on paper, and mailed that with a check.  Even then the better and more reputable places already advertised policies of not depositing your check until the goods were ready to ship, although yes waiting a certain number of days between depositing and shipping was also part of it.  Later you could call the 800 number and order over the phone with a credit card, but again, the policy was to not charge until shipping.

 

A happy customer of B&H Photo (and now video and...) for four decades.

[DvdRiet]

1 minute ago, XYZZY said:

 

I remember buying electronics (resistors, capacitors, chip, in addition to home audio electronics), and camera gear in the 80s when "mail order" meant that I flipped through the add in the magazine, wrote the order down on paper, and mailed that with a check.  Even then the better and more reputable places already advertised policies of not depositing your check until the goods were ready to ship, although yes waiting a certain number of days between depositing and shipping was also part of it.  Later you could call the 800 number and order over the phone with a credit card, but again, the policy was to not charge until shipping.

 

A happy customer of B&H Photo (and now video and...) for four decades.

 

Yes, I remember the good ol' mail order days! I loved shopping all those fantastic mail order catalogs!! (I moved here in the late 80s)

[Just J]

I remember blaming Johnny Whatzisname's Bass Pro Shop catalog for the commode seat permanently embossed on my butt.  

 

[bunnspecial]

16 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

In Australia, the culture has largely moved over the past decade to making the payer explicitly wear the payment processing fee (by % of the transaction amount), or a surcharge to cover it, instead of the merchant or payee absorbing the cost.

 

The major supermarkets, and the odd (as in belonging in the minority) café, don't charge extra if customers want to pay by credit card, but many hospitality venues and smaller retailers do; as do utility providers, strata/building management firms, and even local government (i.e. at the ‘city’ level) when one pays council rates (in other words, property ownership taxes at the ‘city’ level) for credit card payments.

 

I was booking a flight yesterday, and Virgin Australia lets the customer choose between payment by credit card with 0.94% slapped on top of the order value, debit card with a lower 0.54% fee, or direct bank transfer with no fees. Given that the economy fare was essentially non-refundable and would be fully consumed by the airline's admin charge if I wanted to change my travel date, I chose to pay by direct bank transfer. (PayPal wasn't an option.) Jetstar Australia does not accept direct bank transfers, and every payment option — which includes PayPal — on offer carries a transaction fee on top of the fares.

 

Maybe that is a factor in Dutch consumers choosing to pay in a similar manner for purchases.

 

I know we're side-tracking, but at least up until recently(I don't know exactly how recent that is...) the big cards(Visa, Mastercard, etc) explicitly prohibited charging a CC fee or allowing for a cash discount in their merchant agreements. Some places still did it, but they could have their ability to accept credit cards taken away at any time, and needless to say in the US that's a big deal. That's doubly the case since most bank cards/debit cards are tied to a major CC processor-mine have always been Visa.

 

Within the past year or so I would say I've started seeing CC fees pop up at a lot of local and small businesses both online and in person. One of the restaurants my wife and I frequent, a locally owned place, charges 3% on non-cash transactions. They have a sign on the door saying they do it, and also print it on your receipt. That's the one that comes immediately to mind, although as I said it's popped up several places. I bought a new weedeater a month or so back from a local outdoor equipment shop, and the shop owner told me before he'd even tell me the price on it that he was charges a 3% card fee. I went out and grabbed a checkbook out of my car to pay for it! A lot of other small local businesses around here don't, but I've largely gone to paying them in cash or check as I know CC fees eat into their bottom line quite a bit.

[Vpen]

At Indian grocery stores and restaurants in US they give 5-10% off when you pay in cash.

[Lam1]

On 9/22/2022 at 7:47 PM, marlinspike said:

I had something similar (ordered a red M800 that never came, cancelled that and folded that money into 3 Montblancs, my orders were in I April and then 1 month ago). I disputed the charges with American Express and they refunded me both transactions. Apparently the 120 days to dispute goes from the date of promised delivery. I didn't know this when I made my dispute, but I used the future date they told me to expect them (the M800 was to be expected shortly after I had cancelled it) and it worked out fine, and apparently this is why it worked from what I'm reading.

 

 

Glad to hear that you got your money back and thank you for the info about the 120 from promised delivery.

 

I managed to get back what I added to upgrade from the MB to the Namiki, since it was recent (so, I got about 1/3 of the money back).

 

I will look into the other transactions, based on this new information of 120 days from promised delivery,. But I'm not too hopeful, seeing that I bought the MB last Christmas.

[Lam1]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:36 AM, Linger said:

I have this little nagging voice in the back of my head telling me that it is not very likely that LCDC had to prepay their orders with Montblanc or Pelikan or Pilot…my assumptions is that is is more likely they first order and only pay upon delivery….and after yesterday’s news, i doubt that Montblanc c.s. would ship an unpaid order to a company in bankruptcy.

 

Ii feel like a victim, because I am a victim here, but I hate that feeling…my money is gone and there is only a very slight chance I might get a little bit of it back…

 

I understand very well how you feel. I hope you can get your money back.

 

It really feels bad because they knew what was happening and were still taking our money, so it was a complete scam.

 

I also doubt that Montblanc and others will deliver any pens. I suspect that the reason they were not receiving any MB pens lately (they claimed that MB had issues, but other places were receiving pens) was that LCdC was not paying MB.

 

Edited to add: Well, I looked around and for this kind of claims one has up to 1 year to dispute. But, I don't think I'll even try, because LCdC added a supposed 'refund' to my MB order and never specified in the Namiki order that the supposed  "refund" was used there - the Namiki appears as being sold for about 1/3 its value (they certainly knew what they were doing 😡). I do have all the emails to prove everything, but this could lead to all sorts of legal trouble and I don't need the added aggravation.

[TSherbs]

3 hours ago, Lam1 said:

 

I understand very well how you feel. I hope you can get your money back.

 

It really feels bad because they knew what was happening and were still taking our money, so it was a complete scam.

 

I also doubt that Montblanc and others will deliver any pens. I suspect that the reason they were not receiving any MB pens lately (they claimed that MB had issues, but other places were receiving pens) was that LCdC was not paying MB.

 

Edited to add: Well, I looked around and for this kind of claims one has up to 1 year to dispute. But, I don't think I'll even try, because LCdC added a supposed 'refund' to my MB order and never specified in the Namiki order that the supposed  "refund" was used there - the Namiki appears as being sold for about 1/3 its value (they certainly knew what they were doing 😡). I do have all the emails to prove everything, but this could lead to all sorts of legal trouble and I don't need the added aggravation.

 

What aggravation? Get your flipping money back if you are owed it. It's hundreds of dollars, right? Do the math, convert the emails to a pdf, write a cover letter, and submit your request. Why not?

[Lam1]

35 minutes ago, TSherbs said:

 

What aggravation? Get your flipping money back if you are owed it. It's hundreds of dollars, right? Do the math, convert the emails to a pdf, write a cover letter, and submit your request. Why not?

Yeah, you are right, of course. 
It’s over $1,000. I just hate this kind of bureaucracy and dealing with CC representatives. I already have everything in PDF… The cover letter is a very good idea! Hmm… I might give it a try.

 

Thanks for setting me straight!

[TSherbs]

1 hour ago, Lam1 said:

Yeah, you are right, of course. 
It’s over $1,000. I just hate this kind of bureaucracy and dealing with CC representatives. I already have everything in PDF… The cover letter is a very good idea! Hmm… I might give it a try.

 

Thanks for setting me straight!

It is a pain, but if you get even a portion of that $1000+, then your result is a pretty good hourly wage.... 

[marlinspike]

On 9/23/2022 at 1:03 PM, XYZZY said:

 

I would really like to see that in the U.S.  I think people would be shocked at how much they fund big banks by using credit cards.  In particular I'd like to see the idiots with 8% cash back cards have to pay (and see that they're paying) 10% for the privilege.  Hopefully such a system allows product prices to go back down a wee bit since the basic price no longer has to cover crazy card fees, but at a minimum people would at least be aware of how much they're paying.

 

I think I read many years back that one big difference in the U.S. vs European credit cards is that in the U.S. it is the credit card companies that are liable for fraud or misuse of stolen cards, whereas in Europe it is the consumer that is responsible.  While this certainly has led U.S. financial systems to pour billions into fraud detection, I would rather not have to fund that.  I'm not sure if it was laws the built those different systems, or just different corporate decisions that have since turned into inertia: certainly you would not be successful in the U.S. today by offering a card with zero fraud protection.

 

There was a recent article in the Wall Street Journal that mentioned how much is paid to banks in the U.S. for the card interchange fees, but I can't find it.  I believe it also said the amounts are something like 7 times higher than in the E.U.  I did find an old article https://www.wsj.com/articles/visa-mastercard-prepare-to-raise-credit-card-fees-11646743166?mod=article_inline that mentions in 2021 the interchange fees were $55.6 billion.  I don't think the interchange fees account for all of it though:  I recall a local shop-owner explaining to me that he also paid service for the terminal, and a different service for connecting the terminal to the banks.  It's a giant waste.

 

I have to agree with @TSherbs about Amazon, though.  I'm a super happy customer, and while I think it's bad that they are so huge, one reason they have achieved that scale is because their customer support is outstanding.

If a retailer is paying 10% to process a credit card still they need to revisit who is doing their CC processing. Nobody should be paying more than 3% for any card at this point, and even that is bad.

[A Smug Dill]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:12 AM, Lam1 said:

I just hate this kind of bureaucracy and dealing with CC representatives.

 

What bureaucracy? Aren't we merely talking about doing the initial work to prepare one's case, and set out the facts and sequence of events, so that the person at one's first point of contact for the chargeback (or claims) process can more easily follow and understand the story?

 

I can understand hating having to do ‘extra’ work, but we're talking about (trying to successfully make) a chargeback request for one's spend, and not the actual placement of an order or making a purchase by credit card; the latter part is what has unexpectedly gone pear-shaped already, and this is new ‘repair’ work that one can elect to do for one's benefit of loss minimisation, or choose to forgo. It isn't effort that either the credit card company, or the current administrator of the bankrupt business entity, ought (or is somehow obliged) to spare the aggrieved customer.

 

In any case, I put in four PayPal chargeback requests last week, because what LCdC owes me are in several orders, and some orders were partially fulfilled and others not at all. The PayPal customer service representative with whom I spoke offered to make the requests (as in do the data entry) on my behalf, but it would be more work and with less precision for me to explain and detail everything for her on the phone, instead of doing the electronic ‘paperwork’ myself; and I would still have to submit supporting evidence for this aspect or that afterwards anyhow.

 

[marlinspike]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:12 PM, Lam1 said:

Yeah, you are right, of course. 
It’s over $1,000. I just hate this kind of bureaucracy and dealing with CC representatives. I already have everything in PDF… The cover letter is a very good idea! Hmm… I might give it a try.

 

Thanks for setting me straight!

I don't know what card you used, but with AmEx you can just do it when you log in to your account.

[XYZZY]

22 hours ago, marlinspike said:

If a retailer is paying 10% to process a credit card still they need to revisit who is doing their CC processing. Nobody should be paying more than 3% for any card at this point, and even that is bad.

 

You misread what I posted.  I never said, nor intended to imply, that a retailer is currently paying 10% for fees.

[Lam1]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:21 PM, TSherbs said:

It is a pain, but if you get even a portion of that $1000+, then your result is a pretty good hourly wage.... 

 

On 9/28/2022 at 1:27 PM, XYZZY said:

 

You misread what I posted.  I never said, nor intended to imply, that a retailer is currently paying 10% for fees.

 

 

Well, I was mistaken. Reading the information more closely, I cannot dispute the charge anymore (it does not satisfy all the requirements, one of them is that the item cannot have been paid in full, because if paid in full you cannot get a refund after 60 days. But there are other things that my claim wouldn't satisfy).

 

C'est la vie.

 

I hope not many people are in a situation like this, with the purchases made more than 60 days ago (180 days if through PayPal).

 

 

[TSherbs]

2 hours ago, Lam1 said:

 

 

 

Well, I was mistaken. Reading the information more closely, I cannot dispute the charge anymore (it does not satisfy all the requirements, one of them is that the item cannot have been paid in full, because if paid in full you cannot get a refund after 60 days. But there are other things that my claim wouldn't satisfy).

 

C'est la vie.

 

I hope not many people are in a situation like this, with the purchases made more than 60 days ago (180 days if through PayPal).

 

 

Jeez. I'm really sorry. That 60-day limit screws over every person who pays in full for a commision that takes longer than 60 days to complete. Seems unfair, arbitrary, whatever...

 

I guess moving on is the only option, but it ires me (my empathetic response)...

[A Smug Dill]

18 minutes ago, TSherbs said:

That 60-day limit screws over every person who pays in full for a commision that takes longer than 60 days to complete. Seems unfair, arbitrary, whatever...

 

The credit card provider, and payment processors such as PayPal, cannot offer protection or ‘insurance’ coverage to the customer forever; and any predetermined cut-off date is arbitrary. I don't see what's unfair about it, though; to be a consumer and to buy stuff inherently takes on some risk with one's money, hard-earned or not.

 

My purchases with LCdC, paid ultimately with my Mastercard but processed through PayPal, probably fall under the same limitations in terms of protection, and most of them are older than 60 days, so it isn't a case of schadenfreude that I should take that position. 

 

I'm still waiting for PayPal to get back to me. LCdC's window for initial response to PayPal, with regard to my claims, should close in the next 48 hours.

 

And, no, it should not be incumbent on the credit card provider to adjust the cut-off date on a case-by-case basis, in case someone wants to ‘prepay’ for a commissioned, yet-to-be-started piece of work in whole and upfront with a credit card, instead of negotiate a payment schedule, and/or write into the commercial agreement with the producer some room for recourse in case of failure to deliver (on time, satisfactorily, whatever). I understand it's more difficult for Joe Consumer to negotiate such on his own with little leverage, but he could always choose not to commit if the producer is not amenable to such arrangements, and not get the work done and/or the product he wants to buy.

[TSherbs]

4 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

The credit card provider, and payment processors such as PayPal, cannot offer protection or ‘insurance’ coverage to the customer forever; and any predetermined cut-off date is arbitrary. I don't see what's unfair about it, though; to be a consumer and to buy stuff inherently takes on some risk with one's money, hard-earned or not.

 

My purchases with LCdC, paid ultimately with my Mastercard but processed through PayPal, probably fall under the same limitations in terms of protection, and most of them are older than 60 days, so it isn't a case of schadenfreude that I should take that position. 

 

I'm still waiting for PayPal to get back to me. LCdC's window for initial response to PayPal, with regard to my claims, should close in the next 48 hours.

 

And, no, it should not be incumbent on the credit card provider to adjust the cut-off date on a case-by-case basis, in case someone wants to ‘prepay’ for a commissioned, yet-to-be-started piece of work in whole and upfront with a credit card, instead of negotiate a payment schedule, and/or write into the commercial agreement with the producer some room for recourse in case of failure to deliver (on time, satisfactorily, whatever). I understand it's more difficult for Joe Consumer to negotiate such on his own with little leverage, but he could always choose not to commit if the producer is not amenable to such arrangements, and not get the work done and/or the product he wants to buy.

There's always a different way to look at it. I am more on the side of the consumer, nearly always. And in this case, for sure. And this was not even a commission case: LCDC advertised the pen as for sale, and took money in full for it. And then I guess went looking for it, I don't know, maybe they did not look at all. I don't actually care. The consumer in this case got screwed over, over $1000 in total. Paid money and will receive no goods in exchange (apparently). That is what I call "unfair," even if your position is "sometimes that is the way it goes." No one denies that sometimes people get screwed over and are treated unfairly. For sure, that is the way it sometimes goes. I am saying that that sucks.