Has anyone else experienced such problems with TWSBI Blue-Black ink?

[A Smug Dill]

This makes me very wary of putting TWSBI Blue-Black ink into any pen I don't consider disposable or expendable.

 

 

 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

In case you're wondering, I eventually manage to restore the pen to working order. Not having worked on a TWSBI pen before (and hopefully I won't have to again), I didn't do as clean or as neat a job as is conceivable; but it's better than writing the pen off completely.

 

I bet she won't be buying another pen (or any other product) of that brand.

 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

It’s a little disappointing that the cap seal seems to be less effective than it could be. 
 

i don’t know that i would blame the ink. I suspect many inks would do the same if left to dry out in a pen.
 

But then, how long had it been left to dry out?  

 

It seems to me that at least some of the issue here is user error for leaving a pen long enough to dry out. Am i wrong?…

 

ps: nice job on fixing your friend’s pen

 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

  On 9/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

I suspect many inks would do the same if left to dry out in a pen.

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Not that many, in my experience, and I’ve dealt with easily over a hundred of total dry-outs over the past several years. Sailor Shikiori Yonaga is one that could cause a piston plug to be so stuck the piston itself (inclusive of both plug and stem) would break first before the plug budges. Lamy Crystal Topaz is an ink that has cemented the nib collar against the gripping section in two of my Moonman pens, even though it has no business being in the threaded interface between those parts. They’re what I can think of off the top of my head. Many inks can be nasty and difficult to clean out completely once allowed to dry inside a pen; but that’s a far cry from acting like glue or cement.

 

  On 9/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

But then, how long had it been left to dry out?  

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I have no idea.

 

  On 9/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

It seems to me that at least some of the issue here is user error for leaving a pen long enough to dry out. Am i wrong?

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I disagree with you that it is user error. Leaving a pen inked, but used only very infrequently and sporadically, for four to six months is par for the course for me. I have a Sailor Profit Black Luster that was last filled in 2019 (according to my records), and it still writes today without hard-starting when uncapped. Most of the Slip & Seal equipped Platinum pens, especially those in the #3776 product line, can prevent a fill of ink from drying out completely in 18 months, in my experience (although Platinum’s marketing literature suggests they can do far better than that). My Rotring 400 with a snap-cap used to be able to write without hard-starting on the same fill of Noodler’s X-Feather any time in the course of a year. My Pilot Elite 95S (when capped fully and properly) and Platinum Izumo Tamenuri can both resist drying out over a span exceeding 12 months.

 

To me, a pen that cannot resist drying out completely for at least three months is simply not fit for my purposes; and there are many pens in the market today that can do far better in that regard, so it isn’t like I’m only looking for outliers.

 

[TSherbs]

I appreciate the details and the annotations on the photo.

 

I only have a Diamond Mini, and it does not dry out in my usage pattern. I have not used a TWSBI ink before (I don't like the colors that I've seen). 

[ErrantSmudge]

  On 9/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

It’s a little disappointing that the cap seal seems to be less effective than it could be.

 

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I have a 580 ALR, and like my other TWSBI pens (all Ecos) the cap seal is very effective.  Mine has been loaded with Aurora Violet for the past several months and shows no signs of dryout when I occasionally reach for it.

 

What hasn't been mentioned so far is that TWSBI Blue-Black is an iron-gall ink.  I don't know how the ink's chemistry affects its safety if left to dry in the pen, but it's certainly something I don't want to try.

 

  Quote

It seems to me that at least some of the issue here is user error for leaving a pen long enough to dry out. Am i wrong?…

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I don't think you are.

[Bristol24]

Having never purchase either TWSBI Blue-Black ink or a TWSBI fountain pen, I am not qualified to enter into this discussion but I will add, as one who restores vintage fountain pens, that dried ink, especially dried iron gall ink, can be like a cement.  I have had some vintage pens that I thought were sealed with shellac yet heat did not faze them.  Only prolonged soaking in an ultrasonic cleaner would get them apart and the water/soap solution would be dark blue/black yet once apart, the pieces would easily go back together.  I have no idea how long the TWSBI pen sat drying out and it really makes no difference but my hat is off to Smug Dill for fixing it.  The old comedic saying, "don't force it.  Use a bigger hammer" certainly does not apply to fountain pen repair.  The fact that it is back together and functioning says that patience paid off.

 

Cliff

[dragondazd]

I agree modern pens should be able to work for months with only occasional use with normal inks and it is pretty inconvenient when they don't.

 

At the same time, I find dry-outs are so annoying, I put in a lot of effort to avoid them. I don't assume or test if an ink will be safe to clean out after drying, especially anything advertised as waterproof.  If I had to regularly clean out dried pens, even with relatively easy inks, my interest in this hobby would be over.

[dragondazd]

Hmm let me rephrase my comment.

 

1. What a good job cleaning that out! 

2. I have no idea and I never want to find out how bad dried twsbi blue-black is or how it compares to other dried inks. Gross.

[A Smug Dill]

  On 9/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

i don’t know that i would blame the ink.

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On account of the pen being as expendable as they come, I filled a translucent Jinhao 51A that has a hooded 'financial' nib with ink from her bottle. Nice colour, but the pen hard-started time and again if I paused for not even 30 seconds while I held it uncapped. I then transplanted the converter into a Picasso Pimio 916 that has a wet-writing 26mm(?) open M nib. Same thing happened; and it took several priming strokes to get the pen writing again each time.

 

In view of that, I'm not surprised that the ink would dry out quickly even inside a pen, to form a nasty sticky film or goo clinging onto surfaces.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

I had forgotten to mention that it was an IG ink. Interesting that they seem to be worse when allowed to dry out.  I’ll file that away for reference as i like IG inks. 
 

@A Smug Dilli agree that it is unfortunate that the pen dried out. And ideally all pens would be like your sailor and slip n seal platinums. Sadly we do not live in that world. 
ex:  i currently have two new (to me) “51”s on my desk for testing. Both inked on the same day with the same ink. One is drying out, the other is not. 😕 luck of the draw i guess (and 60 yrs of use…)

So personally, there does come a point, IMO, where a user bears some responsibility for a pen drying out. YMMV. 

 

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

  On 9/12/2022 at 6:30 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

On account of the pen being as expendable as they come, I filled a translucent Jinhao 51A that has a hooded 'financial' nib with ink from her bottle. Nice colour, but the pen hard-started time and again if I paused for not even 30 seconds while I held it uncapped. I then transplanted the converter into a Picasso Pimio 916 that has a wet-writing 26mm(?) open M nib. Same thing happened; and it took several priming strokes to get the pen writing again each time.

 

In view of that, I'm not surprised that the ink would dry out quickly even inside a pen, to form a nasty sticky film or goo clinging onto surfaces.

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Oh wow. 
 

that IS something. 
 

… and it’s such a nice colour. I was thinking of trying some… bummer

 

so apparently this ink is seemingly a high maintenance ink… very high maintenance. 

[ErrantSmudge]

  On 9/12/2022 at 6:34 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

… and it’s such a nice colour. I was thinking of trying some… bummer

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I didn't think it was such a nice color.  For me TWSBI Blue-Black was this sickly pale ash-blue-grey, and I'm glad I only bought a sample.  Tomoe River paper.

 

[dragondazd]

  On 9/12/2022 at 6:30 PM, A Smug Dill said:

 

On account of the pen being as expendable as they come, I filled a translucent Jinhao 51A that has a hooded 'financial' nib with ink from her bottle. Nice colour, but the pen hard-started time and again if I paused for not even 30 seconds while I held it uncapped. I then transplanted the converter into a Picasso Pimio 916 that has a wet-writing 26mm(?) open M nib. Same thing happened; and it took several priming strokes to get the pen writing again each time.

 

In view of that, I'm not surprised that the ink would dry out quickly even inside a pen, to form a nasty sticky film or goo clinging onto surfaces.

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Yuck.

 

Thanks for the info

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

  On 9/12/2022 at 8:47 PM, ErrantSmudge said:

 

I didn't think it was such a nice color.  For me TWSBI Blue-Black was this sickly pale ash-blue-grey, and I'm glad I only bought a sample.  Tomoe River paper.

 

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Wow. That’s really washed out compared to the samples  I’ve seen online

[ErrantSmudge]

  On 9/12/2022 at 9:47 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

Wow. That’s really washed out compared to the samples  I’ve seen online

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The writing swatch in that particular Tomoe River notebook is probably the most washed out of all those I made with that ink sample, but it looked washed out on other papers as well.

[arcfide]

The IG nature likely explains a lot of this, even the "washed out blue grey." Iron gall inks can have a tendency towards dry writing, and that includes potential effects if they dry out in the pen. Moreover, their additional volatility means that ink samples tend to "go bad" more easily. I'd easily expect an ink sample of TWBI Blue-Black, Lamy Benitoite, or Diamine Registrar's to have a very limited shelf life. When they do go bad, they tend to leave sediment and the writing you get is this pale, ashy blue-grey, much like what @ErrantSmudge shows above. Likewise, if this dry out occurs, the sediment could probably become sticky if combined with some dried out surfactant or the like. 

 

I've seen this sort of behavior from Diamine Registrar's, and I think @A Smug Dill has said that he experienced something maybe similar with Lamy Crystal Benitoite. I haven't experienced this with Platinum Blue Black, but I don't know if that is because I haven't used it in a pen that is likely to show this kind of behavior, or because there is a different formulation in that ink. 

 

That being said, it isn't just IG inks that do this. You'll find a lot of inks that can get you into trouble if you let them dry out. Pigmented inks come to mind, as well as the highly saturated inks. Certainly, I wouldn't trust most Noodler's inks if they dried out! 

 

The low maintenance inks are partly low maintenance, IMO, because even if they do dry out quite a bit, they tend to still remain functional in a pen, and easily cleaned out. These are inks that, I think, have more water in them, and they can withstand more evaporation before going to goo. They also seem to not have a lot of binders that would turn gooey in the first place. That makes them less vibrant, but lets you get away with a less than perfect seal on the pen. 

[A Smug Dill]

  On 9/13/2022 at 12:53 AM, arcfide said:

I've seen this sort of behavior from Diamine Registrar's, and I think @A Smug Dill has said that he experienced something maybe similar with Lamy Crystal Benitoite.

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Leaving a fill of Lamy Crystal Benitoite in my Lamy 2000 for maybe six months left the piston motion feeling reluctant, but the ink never fully dried out in the pen during that time.

 

I've left Diamine Registrar's Ink to dry out in an Aurora Tu Cento, and while there was sediment and it was difficult to clean out from the pen, it didn't cement the converter's mouth to the feed's ‘nipple’ or cause the rotary-driven piston inside it to seize up.

 

[arcfide]

  On 9/13/2022 at 12:58 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

Leaving a fill of Lamy Crystal Benitoite in my Lamy 2000 for maybe six months left the piston motion feeling reluctant, but the ink never fully dried out in the pen during that time.

 

I've left Diamine Registrar's Ink to dry out in an Aurora Tu Cento, and while there was sediment and it was difficult to clean out from the pen, it didn't cement the converter's mouth to the feed's ‘nipple’ or cause the rotary-driven piston inside it to seize up.

 

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Hrm, well, I'm extrapolating what could happen if things fully dried out, but I agree that the amount of "damage" here seems to be on the extreme end. I guess if I ever picked up some TWBI Blue Black it would be interesting to see if there was a way to replicate this behavior. 

[A Smug Dill]

  On 9/12/2022 at 6:32 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

I had forgotten to mention that it was an IG ink. Interesting that they seem to be worse when allowed to dry out.

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Diamine Registrar's Ink, ESS Registrars Ink, and Hero 232 Blue-Black are all fairly strong iron-gall inks, and none have given me that kind of trouble after drying out in pens. Come to think of it, not Platinum Classic Ink Cassis Black and Forest Black, either.

 

  On 9/12/2022 at 8:47 PM, ErrantSmudge said:

For me TWSBI Blue-Black was this sickly pale ash-blue-grey,

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Hmmm.

 

  On 9/12/2022 at 9:47 PM, IThinkIHaveAProblem said:

Wow. That’s really washed out compared to the samples  I’ve seen online

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I love that Platinum Blue Black is (relatively) richly coloured and sheens readily, but it's nothing like what I'm seeing from my friend's bottle of TWSBI Blue-Black:

 

 

 

 

but I seriously doubt that she accidentally put the wrong ink into her TWSBI Diamond 50 bottle. This was (cropped from) the photo she sent me when she first received the products: