Pelikan M400 F v EF

[Twiggy_VG]

Firstly, hello to everyone here 🙂 I am new to this forum and very excited to interact with everyone here.

 

I'm looking to buy a Pelikan M400 - I have a good offer (online) on the F and EF nibs.

 

I am usually prefer finer nibs  - because I write really small and like a little bit of feedback (think Twsbi/Pilot, not Platinum). I was kindly gifted an M800 by a relative in a medium nib - and while a love how smooth it is, it is ridiculously broad for me to be able to enjoy the writing experience.

 

I know Pelikans run a bit wider than the lot, but I was worried the EF might be scratchy ? Any of you had any previous experience with the M400 EF? Which of the 2 would you recommend ? 

[A Smug Dill]

Welcome to FPN.

 

1 hour ago, Twiggy_VG said:

I know Pelikans run a bit wider than the lot, but I was worried the EF might be scratchy ?

 

Too broad for the stated nib width grade, yes; EF nib writing scratchily out-of-the-box, unlikely.

 

1 hour ago, Twiggy_VG said:

Any of you had any previous experience with the M400 EF?

 

Yes. I have two of those, and probably close to twenty other Pelikan Classic and Souverän nibs.

 

1 hour ago, Twiggy_VG said:

Which of the 2 would you recommend ? 

 

Neither of those, if you write really small.

 

 

[Strega]

I use Pelikan EF (.4mm) and F (.5mm) nibs when I do Chinese character practice, but for learning characters, I write LARGE.  When I am writing what I consider “normal size” either in Chinese or in English, then I am more likely to use a nib around .2-.25mm such as a Sailer EF or a Pelikan EF that has been reground to that size by Nibsmith.

 

I find even the .2mm nibs to be fine as long as you use a reasonably smooth paper and a reasonably light hand.  (I don’t mean that the paper has to be glossy smooth, just that fine nibs maker rougher paper more noticeable.)

[inkstainedruth]

I have an EF nib on my M405 Blue-Black.  It is not REMOTELY scratchy.  Even on the lousy paper in the cheapie Piccadilly sketch pads I use for ink testing.

Pelikans tend to write wet, so they tend to write wider than the nib width would suggest (if you're used to say, a Japanese EF, you may not like how wide a European  EF -- or even an F -- writes; my first Pelikan was a 1990s era M400, and I would have called the nib more of a medium -- especially with the wet ink I inaugurated the pen with...).  

I have had a bit of a problem with baby's bottom on Pelikan B nibs.  But the EF?  Nice and smooth and not REMOTELY scratchy.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[dms525]

I have a few M600 F and EF nibs, which are very similar to the M400 nibs. As has been noted, Pelikan nibs write a wider line than most pens. Using a drier ink and good quality paper makes a very substantial difference, however. The nibs are not at all scratchy, but the modern Pelikan nibs are very stiff (except for the M1000 nibs). If a springy nib is important to you, Pelikan may not be your best choice. You might look for a pen with a Bock nib or a "Flex" nib like a Pilot Falcon. Another option is a vintage Pelikan. A Pelikan 140 is very very reasonably priced and pretty available. They usually have lovely springy nibs that write beautifully.

 

As for your too-broad M800 nib, the M800 is one of my favorite pens, although it is too big for some. It is too good to not use. You can easily find replacement nibs for M800's. You might even find some one with a Fine that would like to trade for a Broad.

 

Happy writing!

 

David

[1nkulus]

No issues faced with my M2x steel nibs in EF/F/B, which will fit the M4x and M6x series.

If being picky, the 'B' needed slight adjustment.

[1nkulus]

On 9/9/2022 at 4:19 PM, Strega said:

I use Pelikan EF (.4mm) and F (.5mm) nibs when I do Chinese character practice, but for learning characters, I write LARGE.  When I am writing what I consider “normal size” either in Chinese or in English, then I am more likely to use a nib around .2-.25mm such as a Sailer EF or a Pelikan EF that has been reground to that size by Nibsmith.

 

I find even the .2mm nibs to be fine as long as you use a reasonably smooth paper and a reasonably light hand.  (I don’t mean that the paper has to be glossy smooth, just that fine nibs maker rougher paper more noticeable.)

 

I concur. Finer the nib, the more it behaves as a needle and hence the quality of the paper is more pronounced.

Japanese nibs are finer than the equivalent European/American.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:05 PM, dms525 said:

As has been noted, Pelikan nibs write a wider line than most pens.

Pelikan 4001 ink is about the driest ink one can buy, so the nib is designed to be wetter, to meet in the middle.

Waterman makes a wet ink, and a (once before Japanese pens got into the market big time some 15 or so years ago,) a noted thin nib, so it met in the middle. My Waterman Mann 200 F is at least and perhaps thinner than my 200's EF.

 

Aurora use to make the thinnest nib in Europe...almost Japanese thin.Don't know about now.

 

One could buy thinner '82-97 Pelikan gold nibs, or 200's nibs from that era that are 1/2 a width narrower than modern (partially due to the tear drop tipping)........with the same width semi-flex '50-65 they will write wider unless one has a very light Hand due to ease of tine spread.

 

The 200's nibs from 1997-to some 4-5 years ago were tear drop tipped, so thinner than the double ball of now.

Modern 200's have a double ball so joined the modern 400/600/800/1000's fat and blobby double ball nib.

 

One can always send off the Pelikan to a nibmeister and have it made EEF or XXXF.....though I think the Japanese pens designed for their tiny printed script would be easier to get hold of and cheaper in the long run than that.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Pelikan was not always fat and blobby. But to save money on repairs they went over to stiffer gold nibs. To make those who hold a fountain pen vertical like a ball point happy, made a double ball nib....so the nib is fatter.

 

I forgot to add,the fat Pelikan nibs are modern, Pelikan spec to Bock 1998 and kept at fat and blobby when after some 12-15 years they brought their nibs back in house,  in the 400/600/800 & 1000..............the 200 just became double ball nibs in the last 4-5 years. Before that the 200's were 1/2 a width narrower tear drop like the '82-97 era gold nibs.

 

Both the semi-vintage '82-97 and the vintage stubbed gold nibs (gold plated 120) '50-65 nibs are @ 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

 

I'm not OCD on how narrow my EF and F nibs are....but I find EF, F, M, B and BB and their obliques to be of similar width in German pens from the '30's (only 3-4) by me mostly '50-70 era and '80-late '90's to be near each other. Geha, MB, Pelikan, Osmia, Mutschler and Lamy/Artus, and Tropen and so on.

 

They are all narrower than today's MB and Pelikan. MB also has a fat rep today; that it didn't use to have.

[TitoThePencilPimp]

Stick to dry inks, and the EF nib should write between a Japanese F and M. For most of my m400/600s, I have chosen to get them grinded to needle points or cursive italics. For those that I did not send to a nibmeister, I put m200 nibs into them. I prefer Pelikan steel nibs, exception is the nib on the m1000.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Agree with Tito...I really use to rave about that 200's nib before they become double ball....so chase old used 200's..........the vintage (semi-flex factory stubbed) and semi-vintage (springy, tear drop shaped) gold nibs are worth chasing, with or with out the pen; but will be more expensive than an old used tear drop 200. All three of those write with a nice clean line.

Double ball nibs IMO do not write with a clean line....but I'm OCD with a honking big magnifying glass.

 

The old 200's nib was IMO exactly = to the '91-97 gold nibs. The '85 -91 W.Germany 200's = my small 600 and 800. I don't have any '82-91 400's.