Bleach Testing Basic Blacks and Blues (Herbin, Jacques Herbin, Platinum, and Registrar's)

[arcfide]

In the continuing story of Platinum doing absolutely nothing to curb my rabid fanboyism, I've been running some more "aging" tests, and I became curious about some people's idea to use Bleach as an artificial accelerated aging agent. I don't know that I quite buy into the idea that Bleach is a sufficiently accurate analogue to aging, but the testing itself proved interesting. 

 

I took the following inks, swabbed them up at a reasonably high saturation level on Rhodia Premium paper (a little more absorbent than standard 80gsm paper, 90gsm, cream), let them dry and "age" for at least 30 minutes to an hour, and then dropped a single drop of concentrated cleaner's bleach onto the center of each swab with a glass eyedropper (from Opus), and then sat and watched them work for a minute or so:

 

• Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black
• Herbin Perle Noire
• Platinum dyestuff Black
• Jacques Herbin Noir Abyssal
• Jacques Herbin Noir Inspiration
• Diamine Registrar's
• Herbin Bleu Nuit
• Jacques Herbin Bleu de Minuit
• Platinum dyestuff Blue Black

 

I then dabbed up the remaining bleach with a paper towel and spent about 5 minutes getting the sheet scanned in after labeling everything with Platinum Black ink. 

 

Here's the scan.

 

 

I was very fascinated by the results. 

 

This selection of inks was chosen because I like them and because I've been trying to decide whether I wanted to "switch over" my set of EDC pens to Herbin's inks or keep the Platinum around. In particular, Jacques Herbin's Noir Abyssal and Bleu de Minuit are very vibrant, wet, intense inks that represent everything mythically good, IMO, about things like the old Parker Penman line, not having ever tried those inks. However, I've become more and more impressed with Platinum's standard line of inks, in that they are exceptionally well-behaved, dynamic, and sophisticated. In struggling with the decision, I decided to see how much I could push these inks, already knowing that the Jacques Herbin line isn't as well-behaved as the Platinum line. 

 

Most of this test went as expected. The Blue inks more or less evaporated on contact, though Bleu de Minuit is so saturated that it did take a little bit longer. The two iron gall inks here, Registrar's and P BB, also did the characteristic rapid bleaching, though obviously the Registrar's has a little more hold on. The Pelikan and Herbin black inks also behaved more or less the same across the lines, bleaching rapidly to what you see here and then mostly "staying" that way. 

 

The only ink that did something significantly different was Platinum Black. Unlike the others, which almost immediately bleached out, the Platinum Black essentially didn't bleach out at all until the end of the test. Even through the 10 minutes or so that it took to get the scan, with the bleach still "there" in some sense, the best that the bleach could do is that center spot you see, which is significantly darker than the other inks. It took quite a while to get to that point. 

 

You can see the different visually in the swatches by looking at the pattern left by the paper towel as I dabbed up the inks. In all the other swatches, the pattern from the paper towel is the same basic color as the rest of the bleach spot, which shows how the bleach more or less instantly bleached out the ink to that color on contact. However, in the Platinum Black case, the surrounding "halo" of towel mark is quite a bit darker than the center bleach drop. For most of the testing period, the Platinum Black color was more like the surrounding halo than the final bleached color, meaning that it took probably anywhere from 20 - 100 times longer to get to that bleached out color (in terms of time) with Platinum black than with the other inks. 

 

Thus, it's surprising how much more bleach resistant Platinum's dyestuff black ink is compared to the rest. 

 

Now, I'll note here that the other black inks all have a chromatography that is similar, but Platinum Black is different. I believe Sailor Black and Pilot Black might also have a similar composition to Platinum Black, so I'd like to test Platinum Black against these other inks to see how they compare. 

 

At any rate, on Rhodia Premium, I was also surprised how much darker the Platinum Black appeared compared to the Perle Noire and Pelikan 4001. Noir Abyssal still takes the cake for matte, solid black, but the tone of the Platinum Black on this paper was very good, and, IMO, the Perle Noire and Pelikan were less so. 

[yazeh]

Interesting study.  Just missing a few cellulose reactive inks

So what is your decision will you get rid of Platinum or would you stick to it?

 

 

[arcfide]

  On 8/30/2022 at 9:43 AM, yazeh said:

Interesting study.  Just missing a few cellulose reactive inks

So what is your decision will you get rid of Platinum or would you stick to it?

 

 

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I had thought to just enjoy the extra vibrancy of the Noir Abyssal and Bleu de Minuit inks, but then I realized that I would always be wondering about them, and that the inks that gave me the best "fire and forget peace of mind" were the Platinum inks, in that they aren't as high maintenance as a Pigmented ink (which I always find causes me ridiculous and irrational mental overhead, not the least because of color choice), are exceptionally well-behaved, so that I don't have to worry about the paper I use, and have sufficient water and light resistance that I can use them more or less with impunity daily without having to be "afraid" of a loss of practical archival features. They are also more "characteristic" in that they are more unusual looking on the page than other inks, so people who receive letters written by me in these inks will see something they don't usually see, which I have to admit, appeals to my vanity. The primary sacrifice for all of this goodness is that I don't get the rich, elegant, and sophisticated color palette nor the built-in wetness of the Jacques Herbin inks. The wetness I can tune to some degree with White Lightning, but I will never quite have the same feel because getting that would sacrifice the nice behavior of the inks too much.

 

The color palette is the biggest sacrifice. Jacques Herbin inks really are a terrific set of colors, especially with how they have this unique matte element to them. However, getting that little extra pop of color would cost me a whole lot in other things, and on balance I feel better just going with Platinum. If, however, I feel myself less concerned about any of the above, or I'm just frustrated with the more muted and subtle color palette that Platinum loves so much, I know that I can whip the Jacques Herbin inks out easily enough. They're also excellent for putting into some of my large calligraphy pens since they lend so much intensity to those pens, like a large Pilot Parallel nib, that might otherwise lack enough depth with a typical dye-based black or blue ink. 

 

So, in the end, I'm still relying on Platinum inks for my EDC and standard lineup for the vast majority of my work, but the odd special occasion might call for a boutique ink now and again. Though, to be fair, some might call Platinum's rather eccentric line up pretty boutique, as well. 

[yazeh]

I get it. Form or function.  Glad you found your answer. 

 

I abandoned using water loving  inks long time ago. In practice I have found that more or less all inks can be left in pens if they have a good seal. To this date, I have only encountered problems with cheap Chinese pens. 

This has made me relax and enjoy the writing, rather than worry about the pen

 

[TSherbs]

I really appreciate this kind of comparison effort. Thank you for taking the time to do it and share it. 

[inkstainedruth]

Interesting tests.  Thanks for doing it.  

Admittedly, I don't worry too much about stuff like that -- I have inks that I feel comfortable using for more "archival" purposes, such as writing checks: some of the Noodler's inks, plus some vintage "permanent" inks, and one or two pigmented inks (much as I like iron gall inks, I know that they aren't overly UV resistant).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[arcfide]

  On 8/30/2022 at 9:43 AM, yazeh said:

Just missing a few cellulose reactive inks

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I thought I would add a little bit of context on the Cellulose Reactive inks. I haven't done much testing with them because I haven't been able to find much in the way of inks from that line up that I really like. The best out of the bunch for me so far has been X-Feather Anti-fascist Blue, but it clings and sticks and stains in such a way that I don't trust it long term in my pens without a heavy dilution, and the color isn't my favorite. 

 

However, I did have the opportunity to do some testing of these inks with bleach a while back. With normal dye inks or iron gall inks, I tend to find that the bleach will erase the inks over time, but otherwise the paper seems more or less okay. With strong pigmented inks like Platinum's Blue and Black, I find that bleach doesn't have much affect at all, and things just stay as they are. However, I encountered a strange situation with the cellulose reactive inks. When I did a bleach test a while ago on them, they retained their color, but I encountered this strange behavior in which the inked portions of the paper seemed to separate from the rest of the page and disintegrate. What I mean is that the parts of the paper in which the ink penetrated stayed as a single unit with dye, but it peeled off almost like a sticker and left a "half thickness" of paper remaining, where the ink hadn't soaked through. This didn't happen across the board, but in spots, especially if there was agitation or abrasion. This is in contrast to either the dye-based or pigmented inks. 

 

So, all that to say that the CR inks continued, at that time, to be the quirky inks in all of my tests. 

[yazeh]

Interesting that seems like the same behaviour of medieval/ renaissance IG inks, if in long contact with water/ humidity, they would tend to disintegrate the paper.....

With permeant inks one has to have a well-sealed pen. Surprisingly I found De Atramentis Document /Artist rather well behaved and very easy to clean, the same for Kakimori pigment inks (though dry times are high)

 

[arcfide]

  On 8/31/2022 at 6:46 PM, yazeh said:

Interesting that seems like the same behaviour of medieval/ renaissance IG inks, if in long contact with water/ humidity, they would tend to disintegrate the paper.....

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I was also reminded of the old iron gall manuscripts when I saw that behavior, but it is a little bit different, in that in the old manuscripts, often the entire page is removed where the letter was, leaving a hole. In this case, it was just the top layer of paper, and the underside of the paper remained. 

 

  On 8/31/2022 at 6:46 PM, yazeh said:

With permeant inks one has to have a well-sealed pen.

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Indeed, and the modern pigmented inks are very good, though I've mostly stuck with those from Montblanc, Sailor, and Platinum. Still, across those, I find them harder to clean out of a pen and more likely to leave residue in the pen. That usually doesn't cause too much trouble, but occasionally I think it does. It's certainly a good trade-off for the amount of permanence that they deliver. My biggest complaint about the current line of pigmented inks is that the colors aren't always quite what I want. I have had good success, though, but mixing Platinum Carbon Ink with Platinum Pigmented Blue. 

 

  On 8/31/2022 at 6:46 PM, yazeh said:

Surprisingly I found De Atramentis Document /Artist rather well behaved and very easy to clean, the same for Kakimori pigment inks (though dry times are high)

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Platinum specifically touts good behavior on paper as one of the advantages to pigmented inks, and to some degree, I have to agree with those claims. Outside of Iron Gall inks that are quite dry, I do find that pigmented inks seem to write a very good, distinct line that can be crisper than the same dye-based ink with the same level of wetness. They are also more well-behaved in terms of bleeding and feathering. I have found pigmented inks to be much easier to clean out than most cellulose reactive dyes that I cared to try, but not nearly as easy to clean out as iron gall or regular dye-based inks. 

 

In particular, while I generally think that Nathan T. is pretty honest about his inks, if you care to read what he says, the one place where I think he just straight up isn't paying attention is with regards to how readily they wash out with water. I'm convinced that his idea of "wash out with water" means that you can spray water on it and most of the color will be gone. That's not what most other people mean when they talk about washing out with water. Especially if you don't want to fully disassemble a pen and flush it out with high pressure and maybe some wiping with a wet paper towel or other absorbent material, many Noodler's inks just do not wash out with water. The number of Noodler's inks that I have which leave some kind of film or otherwise affect the behavior of inks in a pen is very high, and I get more nib residue from Noodler's inks sitting around in hard to remove places than I do from pigmented inks, which already leave more than iron gall or dye-based inks. 

 

On the other hand, nothing beats Noodler's for the sheer range of highly permanent colors, especially as regards chemical and light resistance. 

[yazeh]

In my experience, many of the Russian series inks are often very easy to clean. I'm not sure if it's related but I've noticed fluorescence helps with the cleaning. 

The worse in term of cleaning is the Polar series, and Baystate which clings to anything.

[amberleadavis]

Thank you!  I love these kinds of tests!

[essayfaire]

This was fascinating; I had never even heard of a bleach test.  I'm curious about the Sailor - it's my go to black!