NDP! Received order from Cult Pens, should I be concerned?

[TakingNotes]

Hello all,

 

Before I get started I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not posting this as an attack on Cult Pens.  They have a great reputation and that's one of the big reasons that I felt comfortable ordering from them.  I have emailed them, but the time difference makes it so that they haven't had a chance to respond to me yet.  Their customer service has been amazing so far, and helped me out a lot before I placed this order.  They didn't hesitate to cancel and refund me for an order that I made by mistake.  I don't have any doubts about the authenticity of my pen, but I am slightly concerned about it's condition.  I just wanted to ask the community here whether I'm overthinking things or making a big deal over nothing.

 

I ordered a Caran d'Ache Leman Grand Bleu with a fine nib (and got an amazing deal compared to what retailers charge for this pen in Canada!), and was told that the pen was a pre-order.  They weren't expecting to to receive it until the end of September, and once they got it they would ship it out to me.  I was pleasantly surprised to receive an email on Monday saying that my order had shipped, and it just got delivered today.  When I opened the package, I went straight for the red box that I knew contained my new pen!

 

When I first picked up the box, I noticed that the packaging had a shiny substance (?) both on the red outer sleeve and on the black box itself.  I thought it was a little weird but was excited to see the pen so I opened the box up and my pen was sitting nicely on it's "bed" in the plastic wrapper.  I took it out and it is absolutely gorgeous!  It looks and feels exactly like the one that I saw at a local retailer.  After admiring the pen for a bit, I decided to take a harder look at the packaging it was in.

 

 

The shiny substance isn't sticky or anything, and maybe it could be due to the box being stacked on other boxes in a warehouse or something.  But regardless, this isn't the kind of presentation that I'd expect from a brand new pen in this price range!

 

 

This was the side of the box.  I noticed that the barcode sticker seemed to be covering some information so I very carefully removed it.  This is what I found underneath:

 

 

The labels underneath the barcode indicate that this was a box for an M-nib pen.  What I ordered (and what I received) is an F-nib pen.

 

I then looked at the plastic wrapper that was on the pen and noticed that it said "open only after sale"... and realized that it had already been opened when I got it.

 

 

Not sure why some of those pics got flipped when I uploaded, can't figure out how to flip them right side up.

 

I also noticed that the little "bed" that the pen rested on did not sit flush in the box.  It wobbles back and forth, and when I took it out it was noticeably bent.  

 

 

Sorry that pic is a little blurry, but that's a showing the pen "bed" from the side, it shows how warped it is.

 

These were all the photos that I sent to Cultpens, so I'm waiting for a response.  I just now decided to open the pen up and make sure that it came with a converter, and was even more concerned when I saw the condition of the converter.  It definitely does not appear to be brand new, and has a bunch of little scratches and imperfections all over.  The "C" in Caran d'Ache seems to be slightly worn away.  I might have to send these in to customer service right after I post this thread so that they can see what I'm talking about:

 

 

So what do you guys think?  Am I over reacting, is this to be expected when buying pens?  Honestly I don't feel like I'm overreacting, it really feels like I got sent a used/returned pen.  What would you expect from the retailer to right this situation?  I'm a little bit concerned about having to do a return since I'm in Canada and they are in England... I really hope that I won't be expected to pay return shipping.  I haven't had a chance to try writing with it, I don't want to potentially cause myself any headache if I were to ink it up because then they might say I had just changed it into a used pen lol

 

As I said in the email I sent to customer service, the main things that concern me here are the condition of the packaging, the discrepancy on the labels, the much-faster-than-expected turnaround time (again, it wasn't supposed to reach the retailer until the end of September), and now the condition of the converter inside the pen all have me worried here.

 

Any input/insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

 

Edit:  one thing I forgot to mention which also has me a little concerned.  I went to the Caran d'Ache website and searched for Cultpens on the list of authorized dealers but did not see any results.  However, it seems that the CdA site only shows brick & mortar stores, so that could be the reason why.  But the paranoid side of my brain can't help but worry!

Edited August 25, 2022 by TakingNotes
added info

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, TakingNotes said:

The labels underneath the barcode indicate that this was a box for an M-nib pen.  What I ordered (and what I received) is an F-nib pen.

 

Yes, although that in itself is not an issue that warrants concern, I'd say.

 

7630002334372 is a 13-digit (EAN?) code Caran d'Ache uses to designate the Léman Grand Bleu fountain pen with F nib — which you can see in the product page's source text — and 4799.158 is the official “product reference” or model number. (Compare that to 7630002334389 and 4799.168, on the slightly damaged label underneath, designating the same pen model with M nib.) The CD prefix obviously stands for Caran d'Ache. So, I'm inclined to think that the regional distributor for the brand applied the label to repurpose the retail ‘gift box’, well before the unit got sent out to the retailer.

 

1 hour ago, TakingNotes said:

The shiny substance isn't sticky or anything, and maybe it could be due to the box being stacked on other boxes in a warehouse or something.  But regardless, this isn't the kind of presentation that I'd expect from a brand new pen in this price range!

 

I agree with the first point. Given my conjecture that it's a box the distributor has chosen to repurpose, I'd guess the distributor found an ‘old’ or surplus box lying somewhere in the warehouse, where it picked up those white marks on both layers of the retail packaging. I can't tell whether they are formed by a foreign substance sitting on top of the surfaces, or caused by abrasive damage to the surfaces.

 

As for being a “brand new” pen, that's always a tricky one. There's factory-sealed and/or “in factory condition” new, and then there is new-in-box that if you were to buy a pen in-store from a bricks-and-mortar retailer which would still be considered a brand new unit albeit having been handled by human hands since leaving the factory. Your pen is obviously not in factory condition, but it's arguable whether “brand new” and “factory-sealed” are synonymous.

 

1 hour ago, TakingNotes said:

It definitely does not appear to be brand new, and has a bunch of little scratches and imperfections all over.  The "C" in Caran d'Ache seems to be slightly worn away.

 

That is certainly not a new converter, no. At first I thought the big scratch in the clear tube above the C could be a crack in the plastic.

 

1 hour ago, TakingNotes said:

As I said in the email I sent to customer service, the main things that concern me here are the condition of the packaging, the discrepancy on the labels, the much-faster-than-expected turnaround time (again, it wasn't supposed to reach the retailer until the end of September), and now the condition of the converter inside the pen all have me worried here.

 

My take on it would simply be that you aren't happy with the item you were sent by Cult Pens in fulfilment of your order and find its condition unsatisfactory, so just send the whole package back at the retailer's cost for a refund or replacement within whatever return period is specified in their policy, unless you're actively trying to avoid that.

 

[TakingNotes]

Yes that big scratch on the converter was very alarming when I first saw it!! I should clarify, the shiny parts on the box aren’t actually white, it was just catching the light in those photos.  
 

Seems like a good theory about the labels, I appreciate you researching those codes for me!

 

Waiting to hear back from the retailer about this, really hoping that we can reach some sort of resolution as I’m a little disappointed with this experience so far!

 

I was really glad that they packed everything so well though.  I ordered a bunch of bottles of inks and was a little scared because I’ve seen pictures of peoples deliveries when an ink bottle broke in transit.  Happy to report that all my ink bottles and Rhodia notebooks arrived safely!!

[A Smug Dill]

11 minutes ago, TakingNotes said:

… pictures of peoples deliveries when an ink bottle broke in transit.

 

This is after I've removed all the broken glass clinging to the products:

 

 

I've spent >$30,000 on the hobby in almost a decade since then, and not a cent went to that UK-based retailer (not Cult Pens).

 

15 minutes ago, TakingNotes said:

Happy to report that all my ink bottles and Rhodia notebooks arrived safely!!

 

Cult Pens has always done a good job of packing my orders for international post, even on the multiple occasions when an order contained >30 bottles of ink.

 

These guys, too:

 

[ralfstc]

This is always a tricky area, and of course if the OP isn't happy, then it is absolutely their right to get things sorted to their satisfaction. 

 

My best guess here would be that the pen was a return and CP saw an opportunity to fulfil an order sooner than promised. From their perspective, this makes total sense and I imagine like most retailers they see the pen as the thing and the box as peripheral. Where this goes off the rails a little in my view is the state of the convertor.

 

If it were me I wouldn't worry about the packaging too much, but I would ask CP for a new convertor. In the meantime you can use the pen with the existing convertor over a month earlier than would otherwise be possible 🙂

 

But again, the most important thing is that you are happy.

 

Ralf

 

[DvdRiet]

Just as an FYI / anecdote / aside, my most recent pen purchase came labelled: 'empty gift box'  

[Strega]

As for the upside-down photos - we're they taken on an iPhone?

[A Smug Dill]

17 hours ago, TakingNotes said:

Not sure why some of those pics got flipped when I uploaded, can't figure out how to flip them right side up.

 

 

[ljz]

As an owner of three Caran d’Ache Léman Grand Bleu fountain pens, each with fine, medium and broad nib, I’d say the malaise you’re encountering is deemed normal and it could be explained by the followings:

 

1. The Caran d’Ache UK distributor found out that they didn’t have the Grand Bleu with fine nib in stock after receiving the order from CultPens, so they sent it in to Caran d’Ache in Switzerland for nib exchange before passing it to CultPens, hence the torn seal.
2. Caran d’Ache uses recycling materials in producing the packaging for their low-end series, with perhaps some cut-corners, hence the flimsiness in the gift box.
3. The imprint on the metal part of the converter wears off much faster than you’d expect. The lettering on all my converters disappeared wholly after wiping three to four times using only damp lint-free cloth. Scratches on the outer wall of ink chamber might result from inadvertent hitting with sharp inner threads of the barrel.

 

Hope this would alleviate your anxiety. You could possibly ask CultPens to send you a new converter in case you’re still not satisfied with the purchase.

 

[TakingNotes]

9 hours ago, Strega said:

As for the upside-down photos - we're they taken on an iPhone?

 Yeah, iPhone pics.  It's weird because I transferred them to my laptop and the file opens right side up .  Interesting link @A Smug Dill, that must be what's going on here!  Weirdly though, clicking/opening in new tab doesn't flip them around.

 

Cultpens responded and apologized, and sent a shipping label if I'd like to return it.  They said they hadn't sold one of these pens in a while, so it must have come from their distributor in this condition

 

13 hours ago, ralfstc said:

If it were me I wouldn't worry about the packaging too much, but I would ask CP for a new convertor. In the meantime you can use the pen with the existing convertor over a month earlier than would otherwise be possible

That's kind of what I'm leaning to... at the end of the day I do really want this pen and it would be a shame to send it back.  I've emailed Cultpens about this so we'll see what they say.  It's just kind of hard to shake the feeling that I've been sent a used pen, but I'm hopeful they can make it right as the pen is very pretty.  I really want to ink it up and try writing with it but I guess I need to wait for the issue to be resolved before I can try it out!  It's hard having such an amazing pen sitting on my desk but not getting to try it out!

 

 

 

@ljz Thanks for your input, I really appreciate hearing from an experienced CdA customer such as yourself!  I have a CdA Leman ballpoint that I bought at a brick & mortar store here in Vancouver... I might have to post some pics here!

 

Edit:

16 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

I've spent >$30,000 on the hobby in almost a decade since then, and not a cent went to that UK-based retailer (not Cult Pens).

 

Amazing how that retailer could have had a long-time customer if they had just taken some extra care when packing your order!!

Edited August 26, 2022 by TakingNotes
added info

[Strega]

Yeah, prior to smart phones, there was no need for any concept of orientation in photos – everyone knew how to hold a camera.  But when phones came along, Apple (then copied by others) realized that it was easy to take pictures “upside-down” and they could either fix it by reordering the pixels or putting a mark in the EXIF data.  The former was super-compatible but used a lot of CPU so they went with a “light” solution and let the things displaying the image reorient them.  Unfortunately, there is still a lot of software in use that doesn’t even see that little mark in the EXIF. It can get especially confusing if you read an image into a program that doesn’t know about that mark and rotate it and save the image.  (Along with unchanged EXIF data.) Now it looks fine in that program, but then you load it up in an app that does understand that mark so it re-inverts the image back to upside-down again! 😀

[inkstainedruth]

I often end up with the photos taken on my iPhone upside down when I download them to my laptop.  But iPhoto (or whatever they're calling it these days) lets me fix the orientation, and to tweak the color and (to some extent the sharpness) of any specific images, as well as cropping the images and enlarging them.  Which I find INCREDIBLY useful.  And I generally want to do that before uploading pix to anywhere in general (while I've had a few photography classes, and used to be able to process B&W film, cameras on phones is a whole 'nother ball of wax (one of the things I do miss about "real" cameras is that I had a set of close-up filters that could be used individually or combined in different configurations.  And my hand is not as steady when taking pix on a phone, (especially pens) because I'm often trying to do it one-handed while holding the pen in the other.  With an SLR or (more recently) a digital SLR, I'd have the phone in BOTH hands, or be using a tripod.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[A Smug Dill]

32 minutes ago, Strega said:

Yeah, prior to smart phones, there was no need for any concept of orientation in photos – everyone knew how to hold a camera.  But when phones came along,

 

Photographers have been using their SLRs to take photos in portrait orientation for decades when it suits their images' framing and composition better; it's not as if they didn't know how to hold their cameras. When digital cameras became more accessible to the pro-amateur segment, long before cameras were the “killer app” in mobile phones (never mind become what one expects all phones to do outside of making phone calls), that orientation information was captured in the image metadata that the common image file formats of the day had already made provision for back when they were defined.

 

[kazoolaw]

You've described "feeling" like you were sold a used pen.

Did you flush the pen before filling it?  Did you see evidence that it had been filled previously?  Did you see ink on the mouth of the converter?

You've described the converter.  Are there scratches or other signs of wear elsewhere?

For the "amazing deal" can you live with the state of the packaging?

 

 

[amberleadavis]

[TakingNotes]

2 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

For the "amazing deal" can you live with the state of the packaging?

I think I got an "amazing deal" if it's a new pen.  If it is indeed used then I'd say I paid a fair price.  But again, my main issue is that I thought I had ordered a brand new and what I received leaves a little room for doubt.

 

2 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

Did you flush the pen before filling it?  Did you see evidence that it had been filled previously?  Did you see ink on the mouth of the converter?

I haven't filled or flushed the pen at all.  I haven't tried writing with it at all yet, which is killing me!!  I wanted to keep it in the exact same condition that I received it in, just in case the retailer insists that I return it to them (that way I can honestly say that I have not made any alterations to it).  I'm hopeful that I can reach an agreement with the retailer that would let me keep the pen I have right now, instead of returning and ordering a new one.

[Strega]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Photographers have been using their SLRs to take photos in portrait orientation for decades when it suits their images' framing and composition better;

 

 

Yes I've been using SLRs since the 70s and the images are simply sideways when you do that.  If you want to see it upright, you just rotate the slide, negative or print 90 degrees.  Upside-down is more interesting.  And you CAN hold an SLR upside-down but that's quite awkward and in most cases produces no real effect since you'd just rotate the slide without even thinking about it.  Phones on the other hand are probably held upside down around 50% of the time.

 

Until fairly recently, the SLRs and DSLRs I used had no idea what angle they were shot at and you just handled that later.  My recent DSLRs do, but I believe they were playing catchup with the iphone on that. 

[A Smug Dill]

6 minutes ago, Strega said:

Until fairly recently, the SLRs and DSLRs I used had no idea what angle they were shot at and you just handled that later.

 

I'm pretty confident the Sony digital (not SLR) camera I bought around the year 2000 did capture the orientation in the EXIF metadata of JPEG files it produced. However, it'd be difficult for me to now find a CD-R disc from twenty years ago with one of the original, unedited image files on it to confirm. Hell, I don't even have a computer with a working CD/DVD drive any more!

[Strega]

It just occurred to me that I switched from a camera line that relied on lens stabilization to a camera line with IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization) about 7ish years ago, and that probably means I got the accelerometers, and therefore the camera orientation “for free” at that time. For a camera without interchangeable lenses, any image stabilization might make that data available.

[A Smug Dill]

I don't know what this version of the Invision platform software (to which FPN upgraded late in 2020) does exactly with images any more. It certainly handles images uploaded as in-post attachments differently from what is uploaded into the Image Gallery; but, in both cases, the image metadata is stripped before the server supplies the image data upon request over HTTP(S).

 

I found a (Samsung Galaxy tablet) device that saves orientation in the image metadata, when taking photos with the native Camera app. Right now I'm personally confused by the value of the orientation metadata that I see, but in any case Preview, GIMP, and Chrome on my Mac all renders all of the images the correct way. However, when I upload as in-post attachments a photo with orientation metadata value of 3, the subject of the image ends up upside down; no problem with the values of 1, 6, or 8. That makes no sense, unless there's a software defect in the forum platform software.

 

Edit:

The same image, when uploaded into the Image Gallery, renders correctly.

 

So,

On 8/25/2022 at 2:43 PM, TakingNotes said:

Not sure why some of those pics got flipped when I uploaded, can't figure out how to flip them right side up.

 

that specific case is probably due to a defect in the forum platform software, in how it handles attached images that has the orientation metadata value of 3. (How it handles images that are rotated 90° is a different matter.)

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by A Smug Dill