Lamy Aion nib adjustment

[spiro2903]

Hi,

I just purchased Lamy Aion with a medium nib. The pen is very good, and I like the nib, but it is bugging me. I am new to fountain pens so it is hard to explain, but there might be an issue with the nib. When I am writing the nib top is angled straight to the paper, but then the nib sometimes skips and is not so smooth. If I rotate the nib (the entire pen basically) just a few degrees counter clockwise it writes beautifully. It is wet enough (I don' like it to be too wet as I write on plain printer paper quite a lot and then the ink would just bleed), and very smooth. But it is bugging me as my hand and eyes are just accustomed with the nib pointing straight towards the paper. I hope this is understandable, as I don't know how else to explain it other than draw it

Is this a bug and can it be fixed and how?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you.

[arcfide]

The only real way to know what is going on would be to get a loupe and examine the tines to see more clearly how the tines are aligned and shaped. It's also worth noting that sometimes our pen stroke can inadvertently rotate the nib during the stroke, leading to some issues, even if we start with the nib "facing up" and properly aligned. 

[spiro2903]

I think I hold it quite straight. I have Faber-Castell Loom with fine nib as my daily pen and it doesn't have the same issue. I can actually rotate it quite a bit both ways and it will still write the same. But I will try with the magnifying glass too see how the tip is shaped.

[spiro2903]

So, I saw a video from Goulet pens about Lamy 2000 sweet spot. That describes exactly what I have. The conclusion of the video is "Live with it"

Is that the general advice or can something be done?

[ruby.monkey]

For what it's worth, my Aion with fine nib writes well at angles up to 45 degrees either side of level. Given that Z53 nibs are pretty cheap, why not just replace yours?

[spiro2903]

This wasn't an expensive pen, and I got it on discount, but I still feel like it should write well and not have any issues. Maybe I am spoiled by my Loom which is really good. I just wanted something with a nice M nib. And what guarantees do I have that the nib I order will be any better?

In my research online about this I've seen also a video of someone who was unhappy with Lamy 2000 sweet spot but it went away after another ink was used.

Right now I am using some Lamy blue ink. The pen came with their own ink cartridge. I've ordered some Lamy converters and when I get them I will try a different ink to see if it helps. I don't particularly like this Lamy ink anyway.

So far I've tried some Diamine, Iroshizuku (I think that's how it's spelled ) and Pelikan edelstein ink (which I have now in my Loom and I quite like). So I'll try to fill it with some of those to see if it makes a difference.

[ruby.monkey]

As a general statement, yes I believe you should get acceptable performance from your Aion out of the box; and while a fountain pen nib will have a limited range of working angles by the very nature of its design, a Lamy medium should have a pretty generous sweet spot - my medium Z50 nibs all work to at least 30 degrees either side of level, and even my current-generation 2000 medium is usable 15->20 degrees either way (all with Lamy ink). With regards to your concern about getting a dud replacement - it's possible, although I would bet against it, and choosing a reliable seller can solve that problem.

 

If you bought the pen new and are unsatisfied with its performance then you could always have it replaced. If that's not an option and different inks don't help, then at least you have a few low-cost fixes available to you.

[Jamerelbe]

If the only ink you've used with the pen is the Lamy cartridge, definitely try another (preferably wetter) ink and see if it makes a difference.  It *should* write just fine out of the box, but

 

(1) the ink that comes in the included cartridges isn't always the best; 

(2) sometimes it can take a while for regular flow to get established, especially if the ink is "flushing out" any tiny particulates or chemicals left behind in the manufacturing process; and 

(3) in my experience, sometimes it takes a little while for a nib to "settle in" as I write with it.  Sometimes it's only after the second or third inking that a pen "finds its groove" with me.

(4) Add to that the reality that some pens *do* have a genuine QC problem (misaligned tines, tines pressed too closely together, poorly finished writing surface) - at which point you need to decide whether to try to fix it, or contact the vendor.

 

I don't believe the Aion typically has a "sweet spot" like the one described for the Lamy 2000 - I certainly haven't found that to be the case with mine, even though it's an Extra Fine nib, so inevitably *does* have a smaller point of contact between nib and page.

[A Smug Dill]

5 minutes ago, Jamerelbe said:

I don't believe the Aion typically has a "sweet spot" like the one described for the Lamy 2000 - I certainly haven't found that to be the case with mine, even though it's an Extra Fine nib, so inevitably *does* have a smaller point of contact between nib and page.

 

I get and install Lamy Z53 nibs as upgrades for select Lamy pens that come factory-fitted with Z50 nibs, if I intend to use them more frequently than once in a blue moon. In my experience, Lamy's quality control for Z52 and Z53 nibs is noticeably better than for Z50 nibs. Like you, though, mine are EF nibs; so I really have no advice to give, in the face of:

15 hours ago, spiro2903 said:

I just wanted something with a nice M nib.

 

because I cannot grasp what “a nice M nib” would be like.

[Jamerelbe]

5 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

<snip> because I cannot grasp what “a nice M nib” would be like.

😆

[DrDebG]

Great questions, spiro2903!  As the proud owner of 2 Lamy Aions, I can honestly say that they are great workhorses.  I also have several Faber Castell Looms.  You can't compare the two.  The Faber Castell nibs at this price point are superior to the Lamy nibs.  But, that doesn't mean that the Lamy nibs are bad.  They are actually quite good. But what Jamerelbe has said makes good sense. 

 

First of all, let me make some simple suggestions.  Some pens just need a little more time to settle in.  What I mean by that is sometimes, it takes writing with them through several ink fills (or cartridge fills) before they find their own stride, so to speak.  That is the way it was with my second Aion I purchased.  It took writing with the pen for a month or two before it really caught on to my writing.   I find that the Aion is not unlike other pens in that price point.  You have to be patient and work with them.  And, more importantly, you have to be patient with yourself, especially if you are fairly new to fountain pens.  Just take time and work with the pen.  

 

Also, I have found that a little bit wetter ink that those that came with the pen help the process.  Lamy inks are notoriously dry. If you like cartridges (as opposed to converters to choose your own ink), I would recommend a slightly wetter ink like Diamine or even spring for a few Montblanc Royal Blue cartridges.   If you have a Lamy converter (not the one for the Lamy Safari, but the one for Lamy Studio and Scala), I would recommend purchasing a bottle of one of the Waterman inks.  They are not necessarily "wet" inks, but they are a bit wetter than the Lamy inks that come in the cartridges.

 

There is a basic fact of fountain pen writing that only a few will expound on - the trio of pen, ink and paper.  Paper is almost as important as the pen and ink.  Using a good pen with good ink will become more difficult if you are writing on poor quality paper.  Yes, we all have to write on poor quality paper at some point.  But, if we have a choice, particularly with our journals or planners, choose a higher quality paper - one that is known to be fountain pen friendly.  I have tried dozens of paper over the years - as many of us have.  Some are very expensive, and some are relatively inexpensive.  Recently, I came across a relatively good, and relatively inexpensive notebook made by Kokoyu (a Japanese brand) called "the Campus notebook".  Here is a link https://www.jetpens.com/Kokuyo-Campus-Notebook-Business-A5-Dotted-6-mm-Rule-Navy-Cover-50-Sheets/pd/19353  . 

 

I would also suggest doing a nib swap if you are having issues with the nib.  Lamy nibs are very inexpensive and easily replaced (see Goulet videos).  You may find this humorous, but I just swapped out a Lamy steel nib for a Lamy 14k gold nib in my Lamy Studio.  Why?  I just really like the medium gold nib over the steel nib.  Yeah, the nib cost me as much as the pen, but I like the pen and nib swapping is easy with Lamys. 

 

Good luck!

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, DrDebG said:

There is a basic fact of fountain pen writing that only a few will expound on - the trio of pen, ink and paper.

 

… and most people overlook, or are just blissfully unaware of, the “So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish” item in the n-tuple that makes all the difference: technique.

[DrDebG]

3 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

… and most people overlook, or are just blissfully unaware of, the “So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish” item in the n-tuple that makes all the difference: technique.

 . . . perhaps, or just that they don't know yet . . . like we didn't when we first got into fountain pens.  Technique develops with interest and increased knowledge . . . for some but, unfortunately, not all.  

 

Forgive me, but I have come to an age in my life, when I realize that I don't know very much of what I wish I could know more of.  I also realize that when I could have learned more, I neither had the time or the inclination to learn beyond what I needed to know at that time.  And I also realize that there are a lot of other people who would like to know more but because of their situation in life can only take bits and pieces at a time.  And that is o.k.  As an older person, perhaps it is time to pass only little snippets of what I have learned to others . . . with patience and understanding that I was once there myself.   I speak boldly here, because, as a consultant, most of what I do now is not just offer consultation, but much more, I teach with patience . . . sometimes the same things . . . over and over again.  And yes, it is making a difference - slowly . . . 

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, DrDebG said:

Technique develops with interest and increased knowledge . . . for some but, unfortunately, not all.  

 

Forgive me, but I have come to an age in my life, when I realize that I don't know very much of what I wish I could know more of. …‹snip›… I speak boldly here, because, as a consultant, most of what I do now is not just offer consultation, but much more, I teach with patience . . . sometimes the same things . . . over and over again. 

 

I get the feeling that there is some misunderstanding here, sorry. I was talking specifically about handwriting technique. Many people — as I did, when I first started — thought every nib of a given designation (e.g. EF) from a particular brand is consistent, and therefore a ‘known quantity’ if one only read enough reviews and testimonials that will corroborate on the whole, and any nibs that did not fit with that narrow range of user experiences and/or expectations would be considered defective or at least anomalies. Then I learnt belatedly about how differently various inks could behave; Noodler's Ink Polar Green and Prime of the Commons had be unfairly putting the blame of undisciplined ink flow and line widths on my first Lamy (Safari and Logo) fountain pens, and I benched those pens for years. Then I became more aware for the types and nuances of paper. Then I learnt about feeds.

 

Still, the writing experience and outcomes are not deterministic, given all of that; looking back at writing samples I have produced and posted three or so years ago, I can see the outcomes I (can) get now from the same pen-ink-paper combination are noticeably different and, in some cases, controllably varied. That part comes down to technique. Also, I could hand my inked fountain pen and push my notepad across the table to my friend to write with, and the line widths, degree of shading, etc. would be quite dissimilar to my own at the same sitting; I've done that ‘experiment’ more than a few times, with different people.

 

Perhaps we all have a tendency to externalise the factors that directly influence our outcomes, especially if and when we're not exactly our desired outcomes. In retrospect, instead of trying to control or ‘tame’ what happens, by changing nibs, changing pens, changing inks, … perhaps the best thing to focus on first is examining and perhaps modifying (slowly, grudgingly, perhaps frustratingly) my pen-wielding technique, for changing oneself in a directed way is far more within one's own influence or outright control, even if it's the more jarring than, “Why should I just buy/use another product that suits me? I shouldn't be the one who has to adapt and change.”

 

That was what I was getting at. Before concluding there is a problem with the tool (such as the nib) because the desired outcome is not achieved, in the absence of direct observations of the physical object (such as inspecting the nib under a loupe to check for tine misalignment, or “baby's bottom” in the tipping), one should get someone else to try writing with the pen, and see if the same problem and/or symptom presents itself.

 

[DrDebG]

49 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I get the feeling that there is some misunderstanding here, sorry.

 

Perhaps we all have a tendency to externalise the factors that directly influence our outcomes, especially if and when we're not exactly our desired outcomes. In retrospect, instead of trying to control or ‘tame’ what happens, by changing nibs, changing pens, changing inks, … perhaps the best thing to focus on first is examining and perhaps modifying (slowly, grudgingly, perhaps frustratingly) my pen-wielding technique, for changing oneself in a directed way is far more within one's own influence or outright control, even if it's the more jarring than, “Why should I just buy/use another product that suits me? I shouldn't be the one who has to adapt and change.”

 

That was what I was getting at. Before concluding there is a problem with the tool (such as the nib) because the desired outcome is not achieved, in the absence of direct observations of the physical object (such as inspecting the nib under a loupe to check for tine misalignment, or “baby's bottom” in the tipping), one should get someone else to try writing with the pen, and see if the same problem and/or symptom presents itself.

 

 

Yes!  I quite agree!  You have made an excellent point!  Thank you for clarifying it.  

 

But, to our misfortune, as adults we have a tendency to think "we should know how to write with a pen", even if it is a fountain pen with unique construction, nib geometry and ink flow mechanics totally unlike a ball-point or rollerball.  We would rather not be concerned about.  "It's just a pen.  How hard can it be to write with?"  

 

As many of us have learned as we have developed in our usage of fountain pens, it is both art and science.  No, I am not a calligrapher - nor do I wish to be.  I like the simple process of seeing ink flow onto paper through the medium of a fountain pen and enjoy the process of handwriting.  And I believe that most of us on this great forum feel the same.  But, as ASmugDill says,  it takes time and patience to learn the "technique".   

 

 

[spiro2903]

Well, this thread became quite intense quite quickly

Let me tell you my reasoning with this pen: I work as a troubleshooter for issues with products that my company makes. To find, and to even realize there is an issue, first you need a baseline of the product. How it should behave under certain conditions. As the product needs to be profitable as well you also need to compare it to other products and industry standards. To translate that to my (pen) case the Lamy should (in my opinion of course) write at least as good as Loom which is, at full price for both pens, half as expensive. It doesn't. Simple as that. Now to troubleshoot the issue you never change more than one variable at a time. So in my case I did not change the paper and certainly not my writing style/mechanics. After 40 years of writing just fine I don't feel like I should. This includes other fountain pens as well. So the only thing that has changed is the pen, and this leads me to conclude that there is an issue with the pen. Of course the pen has many parts so now I am troubleshooting to see which one is the issue. It might be the nib, the ink or the feed. My first assumption would be the nib, but that is just a working assumption until proven true or false. If I had another nib which I knew(!) is working well I would swap it and see if my assumption needs correcting. If the issue was still there then my assumption would change and I would assume maybe ink(?) could be an issue. This would go on until I have exhausted all of the possibilities and found the issue. As I don't have a spare nib lying around I will assume it's the issue with the ink and start from the other end. As soon as I get the converter that I ordered new ink goes in and the process continues.

I will also take your advice and be patient and wait a few fillings for the nib to "settle".

Also when I sad "something nice with a M nib" I meant a pen that feels a bit more premium than my Loom and has an M nib that writes at least as good as my Loom just slightly broader and was hoping for just a touch more smoothness and wetness. This pen, when in sweet spot, is all that. So in that regards I am happy, but this sweet spot is bugging me.

As I got the pen at an discount (45€ with shipping) I don't want to return it and event with the nib swap it's still a good deal.

Another thing that often happens is when people are passionate about something, they will go out of their way to justify any issues that thing might have. It will never be that things fault but the world is built wrong and everything else is bad. Although I also sometimes really want to like something that has issues, I am usually honest with my self and at a certain point admit that it's faulty. I'm usually more of a realist and can detach and look at things objectively, although maybe not immediately, certainly fairly quickly.

I really want this pen to work, but if it doesn't, given all the evidence I have, it's most likely it's fault not mine

[arcfide]

I don't know how many fountain pens that you've worked with, but unfortunately, youre diagnostic journey is a little more difficult than what you make it out to be, simply because there isn't a universally agreed upon standard for what makes a "good" fountain pen nib. So, very often, you may find that some people believe this or that nib is significantly better or worse than another of often wildly different price points. Lamy nibs themselves, especially, IMO, the steel ones, have a unique enough feeling all on their own, and their Aion nibs are so much stiffer than their typical nibs so as to make them relatively unique in feel independent of the specific nib qualities you might want such as feedback/smoothness, wetness, etc. It's probably a good sign that you can get something you consider good at least somewhere in the positioning of the nib, which suggests that getting it tuned to your liking will be less difficult than it could be, but the reality is often that a nib may be objectively what the manufacturer has in mind as their "ideal" nib, and it still may not meet with your satisfaction compared to another nib, regardless of cost. That's why people tend to either learn to appreciate variation in nibs or they learn to tune their nibs to get what they want out of them. 

 

Just as a really simple example, if you like a smooth, large sweet spot with a little give but not excessive flex, then it could very well be that an inexpensive but high quality Jowo steel nib might actually outperform many Japanese gold nibs that are considerably more expensive, but which are tuned to write with more feedback and which might exhibit a little more bounce. Many makers are very proud of the quality of their steel nibs despite the costs being lower than many other pens with objectively less obsessed over nibs in gold. Even worse, many users find that their tastes in nibs change over time as they become more used to various pens. 

 

Lamy nibs, IME, are among the more variable nibs, but also among the more tunable, so while I often might tune my Lamy nibs more than some other brands, I am almost always sure that with a little tuning, I can get something that writes well for me. This is not to say that they are bad nibs or that Lamy has bad QC. As far as I can tell, they have good QC, but they do a lot of automated production which is bound to have certain tolerances that might allow for things to slip through, especially at the price points they are working with. Sailor might have a reputation for very consistent nibs, but they are also much more expensive and idiosyncratic, and they can be more difficult to tune. 

 

All this to say that there's nothing objective you're going to be able to reach for to diagnose this problem outside of what you like and dislike in a nib, since your tastes are very likely at least a little bit different than what the ideal nib target looks like for any given company. 

[A Smug Dill]

50 minutes ago, spiro2903 said:

Let me tell you my reasoning with this pen: I work as a troubleshooter for issues with products that my company makes. To find, and to even realize there is an issue, first you need a baseline of the product. How it should behave under certain conditions.

 

A decade and a half ago, I was hired as a Problem Manager for a large corporation, and promoted is less than six months to become the Practice Lead for problem management, overseeing how everyone who was looking after multi-million dollar ICT outsourcing accounts would approach, diagnose, and resolve problems. I wrote the internal training course for it. A decade before that, I also did all that Six Sigma Black Belt rigmarole, to systematically nut out issues that were causing variation, failures, waste and rework in high-volume production processes. I'd say I'm no stranger to how to perform problem analysis.

 

1 hour ago, spiro2903 said:

To translate that to my (pen) case the Lamy should (in my opinion of course) write at least as good as Loom which is, at full price for both pens, half as expensive.

 

Price is just price, and has no bearing on whether a product actually meets agreed/formal standards and performance criteria. In my experience and opinion, it is misguided for the outsider (e.g. consumer) — who is not responsible for product management and market performance — to take some company's terminology, policies, product performance, etc. and try to impose it on its competitor, as if that was an industry standard or recognised benchmark to which every manufacturer ought to be held to by default.

[Azulado]

3 hours ago, arcfide said:

Lamy nibs, IME, are among the more variable nibs, but also among the more tunable, so while I often might tune my Lamy nibs more than some other brands, I am almost always sure that with a little tuning, I can get something that writes well for me.

I completely agree with you. Besides, I know the Z50s so well that I think I would be able to get one of these nibs (the ones that fail) to write well in a few minutes, not so much because of my skill as because of the quality of the nibs themselves. In fact, there is an old lady at the factory who is dedicated to adjusting the faulty units with a few taps, told by @Bo Bo Olson, who was at the factory.

 

[Azulado]

3 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Price is just price, and has no bearing on whether a product actually meets agreed/formal standards and performance criteria. In my experience and opinion, it is misguided for the outsider (e.g. consumer) — who is not responsible for product management and market performance — to take some company's terminology, policies, product performance, etc. and try to impose it on its competitor, as if that was an industry standard or recognised benchmark to which every manufacturer ought to be held to by default.

I find your reflection very interesting. However, it is the manufacturers themselves who have fallen into this trap. You can see it in cars, the VW Golf GTI became a standard and the rest of the manufacturers create that kind of model by looking at it. In sports cars, many manufacturers go to the Hockenheim circuit to try to do the fastest lap in their model category.