I'm thinking of getting a Pelikan M200/205, but I have questions

[SlowRain]

I'm thinking of getting a Pelikan M200/205, but none of their ink colors that I'm interested in are water-resistant enough for my needs. So I have some questions:

 

1. I've heard that Pelikan's nibs are wet. Does that apply equally to both their gold and steel nibs, or are their steel nibs drier?

 

2. Have any of you tried Graf von Faber-Castell ink in an M200/205, particularly Moss Green, Deep Sea Green, Turquoise, or Gulf Blue? How well would they pair together?

 

3. Barring that, what dry-ish inks with medium water-resistance in that teal/turquoise/cyan/azure/powder blue spectrum work well in an M200/205? (For me, medium water resistance means something legible always gets left behind, even if it isn't exactly true to the original color.) I should note I don't want anything from Noodler's or iron gall. I've never tried De Ateamentis, but I've read of behavior issues with their Document Ink series.

 

Thanks!

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, SlowRain said:

Have any of you tried Graf von Faber-Castell ink in an M200/205, particularly Moss Green, Deep Sea Green, Turquoise, or Gulf Blue?

 

Yes.

 

 

1 hour ago, SlowRain said:

How well would they pair together?

 

I think the colours matched nicely.

 

[chromantic]

I use several Stipula inks in my M4xxM3xx and use their Light Blue in an M205. They tame the slightly more wet gold nibs nicely. Not sure about any water resistance, though, it's not a big concern for me.

[SlowRain]

13 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Yes.

 

 

I've seen a few of the pictures you have uploaded on here, so I think you may be in a good position to answer my questions. Sorry if I come across as 龜毛, but this is not a small purchase for me, so I'd like to get it right. I'm thinking of either a Pelikan Aquamarine, Marbled-Petrol, or Moonstone pen (or possibly a Green- or Blue-Marbled, but those are less likely). I'm looking at a water-resistant teal or turquoise ink, which led me to Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine and Graf von Faber-Castell Deep Sea Green.  (In the back of my mind I have the idea of mixing in other samples of Edelstein or GvFC inks to shift the color slightly in the direction I want if I don't quite like the main color out of the bottle.)  

 

How do you feel the Edelstein Aquamarine and GvFC inks behave in Pelikan steel nibs? Will one be noticeably better or more problematic? In your experience, how do they behave on a wide range of papers? Which ink do you personally prefer? 

 

The Marbled-Petrol pen looks either blue or green in different pictures (yours looks blue-ish to me; but most people seem to describe the pen as a turquoise). Which ink, Aquamarine or Deep Sea Blue, do you feel matches it the closest? And, have you ever seen the Aquamarine M205 in person? If so, which of those two inks comes the closest to it?

 

Thanks!

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, SlowRain said:

I've seen a few of the pictures you have uploaded on here, so I think you may be in a good position to answer my questions. …‹snip›… I've seen your pictures, but how do you feel the Edelstein Aquamarine and GvFC inks behave in Pelikan steel nibs?

 

I'm afraid I'm actually not in that position, sorry. I've never used Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine in a Pelikan Classic M2xx pen. Or any other fountain pen yet, as far as I can recall; I've opened my bottle of it for writing this here with a Pilot MR's nib mounted on a dip pen handle without a feed.

 

 

In any case, I genuinely don't know how you're expecting me to evaluate the behaviour or performance on GvFC inks specifically “in Pelikan steel nibs”, or I suppose you mean a Pelikan piston-filler fitted with a M20x nib unit, as opposed to how the inks may work in a steel-nibbed, converter-filled Pelikan P20x pen. I don't recall using any other GvFC ink colour than Deep Sea Green in a Pelikan M2xx pen (as shown above), even though I have a fair few Pelikan M2xx pens and several GvFC inks. As you can see, even for two M200 F nib units installed in the same pen, the writing outcomes are vastly different in terms of line width and colour intensity. There is little point in trying to extrapolate from that to cover more Pelikan M2xx pens and/or steel nib units, or more GvFC ink colours for that matter.

 

1 hour ago, SlowRain said:

I'm looking at a water-resistant teal or turquoise ink, …‹snip›… Will one be noticeably better or more problematic? In your experience, how do they behave on a wide range of papers? Which ink do you personally prefer? 

 

Personally I'd go for either KWZ Ink IG Turquoise or Noodler's Ink Aircorp Blue Black, if that was what I was after; but you already stated your criteria which exclude both of those inks.

 

I haven't used GvFC Deep Sea Green on a wide range of papers. Rhodia DotPad 80g/m² as my default/standard paper for ink reviews and nib testing, Paperblanks 100gsm paper in the brand's Flexis softcover notebooks, and possibly Studio Milligram's “80gsm Taiwanese-milled maple paper” in most of its notebook/diary products — that's about it. Paperblanks 100gsm paper is very sensitive to the “wetness” of the pen, more so than to differences in the ink used, when it comes to show-through and bleed-through, and writing on it with Pelikan pens will generally result in an undesirable amount of show-through and/or bleed-through, unless I'm using a dry (non-KWZI) iron-gall ink. Studio Milligram's maple paper tolerates most pens and inks OK, but almost always end up with broader lines than on Rhodia DotPad paper for a particular pen and ink combination.

 

2 hours ago, SlowRain said:

The Marbled-Petrol pen looks either blue or green in different pictures (yours looks blue-ish to me; but most people seem to describe the pen as a turquoise).

 

 

To my eyes, that image as rendered on my LCD monitor seems pretty true to the colours of the actual object. I have two of the M205 Petrol-Marbled, and of course they're both that colour. Jacques Herbin Bleu Austral ink is a very good match for it colour-wise; second to that, I'd say, is Noodler's Ink Aircorp Blue Black.

 

2 hours ago, SlowRain said:

Which ink, Aquamarine or Deep Sea Blue, do you feel matches it the closest?

 

I don't have Deep Sea Blue, nor have I heard of it. GvFC Deep Sea Green matches the M200 Green-Marbled barrel (which is very grey and unsaturated to my eyes, and not at all vivid), and so would not be a closer match colour-wise than Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine to the M200 Petrol-Marbled's barrel; so, if you just wanted a binary answer, then Aquamarine would be closer than GvFC Deep Sea Green, even if it isn't actually close considered in isolation.

 

[amberleadavis]

As a happy owner of several M200s, I don't think you can go wrong with such a work horse of pen.  It is a bit small and now that I have an M1000 and my dream M800, my M200s get less attention, but they still get attention. The M200 is a GREAT pen.  As for Moss Green ink - it was one of the inks stolen from my office and a beloved favorite.  Moss Green is a beautiful ink.

 

M200

 

 

M800

 

M200

[SlowRain]

Thanks for the replies! And, amberleadavis, I'm sorry to hear about the theft of your ink. I hope the thieves drank it and got very sick. 

[amberleadavis]

16 hours ago, SlowRain said:

Thanks for the replies! And, amberleadavis, I'm sorry to hear about the theft of your ink. I hope the thieves drank it and got very sick. 

 

I like your style!

 

 

[SlowRain]

I have three more questions:

 

1. For people who have bought an M200 or 205 in the last couple of years, how many had problems with the nib that required someone to tune it? 

 

2. Are there any known issues with the Petrol-Marbled version that required it to be sent back?

 

3. Are Pelikan nibs of a standard size that will fit on other non-Pelikan pens?

 

Thanks!

 

[chromantic]

1.  I've only ever had a problem with one new (and only one used) M-series (1-, 2-, 3-, 4- or 6-), an M200 Cafe Creme; the nib was so scratchy it was like dragging a rusty nail over the paper. Now, I have ~10 that I haven't gotten around to using but I've no doubt they'll be fine when/if I do.

 

2. I returned my Petrol. I was expected a nice, even marbling, like all my other marbled M200s, and the basically black plus a couple of marbled strips design was hideous, imo; the M205 blue marbled I got in it's stead was not much improvement (and one of those ~10 mentioned above).

 

3. Don't know but don't recall ever reading about it being possible here on FPN.

[Karmachanic]

1.  No

2.  No experience

3. 

 

[A Smug Dill]

14 hours ago, SlowRain said:

2. Are there any known issues with the Petrol-Marbled version that required it to be sent back?

 

Some who have pre-ordered the M205 Petrol-Marbled subsequently discovered their pens don't have silver-coloured crowns as shown in Pelikan's original set of promotional images pre-launch, and felt let down or cheated.

 

14 hours ago, SlowRain said:

3. Are Pelikan nibs of a standard size that will fit on other non-Pelikan pens?

 

There is no such thing as “a standard size” in nibs, although if you want to use a JoWo #6 (or whichever) nib as the basis for comparing everything else — when even the nib, i.e. the piece of metal, from a Bock 250 nib unit has a slightly different geometry — you can, and it's your prerogative to do so. “#5” and “#6” are not standard nib specifications across brands that don't use nibs of JoWo manufacture, and choose not to let JoWo set the narrative.

 

Then there's the issue of fitting on other non-Pelikan pens. To me, the answer to that clause should be in the affirmative, if even one (for argument's sake, particularly restrictive) example can be found, even though I imagine you meant fitting a wide (how wide?) range of other pens you may have or choose to buy, as opposed to someone having found an exceptional compatible pen model that nevertheless is of no interest to you.

 

Then there's the issue of reversibility. Taking a the nib out of a Pelikan nib assembly is non-trivial; it's not just a matter of pulling it out of the housing with brute force; and you may not be able to easily restore the nib unit to its original working condition, once the nib has been pulled out to be played with in other pens.

 

[Pensei]

I think Pelikan steel nibs work very nicely. Not to muddy the water, but I am not sure I would describe Pelikan nibs, in general, as wet. I would put them in the middle of the range on that, perhaps indeed a bit on the wet side of neutral. But I would emphatically add what I think is a more important point, that they tend to be wide relative to their nib description. I'm not a Pelican expert, so I will defer to anyone who disputes me, but I would say if you are on the line between two nib sizes, get the smaller. Then, you can also, of course, adjust the line with your ink choice. That's always sort of a funny thing, because any number of inks get described as both wet and dry, depending on whom you ask. But there are in fact dry inks, and a bit of searching on this site will give you countless suggestions. Beyond that, I'll mention that I just have one 200 series pen, and it is very well constructed, attractive, and functions perfectly. 

[inkstainedruth]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:29 AM, SlowRain said:

I have three more questions:

 

1. For people who have bought an M200 or 205 in the last couple of years, how many had problems with the nib that required someone to tune it? 

 

2. Are there any known issues with the Petrol-Marbled version that required it to be sent back?

 

3. Are Pelikan nibs of a standard size that will fit on other non-Pelikan pens?

 

Thanks!

 

The only one I ever had a problem with was the replacement M200 Café Creme (after I lost the first one).  I lucked into a used one on eBay that was said to have a "wide" nib -- which turned out to be an italic M (my first one had a B nib).  Well, the IM nib was a firehose even by PELIKAN standards of wet....  I was able to get a B nib at a pen show and have that nib tuned on another pen before buying it (since the second Café Creme was inked up with the driest ink I had and STILL wet).  But then a couple of months later lost THAT pen as well   I later put the tuned IM nib onto another M200 and it did very well for a project when I inked up the pen with 4001 Brilliant Black. 

I don't know whether Pelikan nibs will fit on non-Pelikan pens.  But I'd be a little doubtful, given that the nib units are not necessarily interchangeable between Pelikan pens (the M200/M400 size nibs are interchangeable between those models, but I think NOT with the larger pens.  And I don't have a Petrol-Marbled so I can't say one way or the other, sorry.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth 

[SlowRain]

Thanks, everybody, for the replies.

 

The ink I'm thinking about in the back of my mind is GvFC Deep Sea Green (because of water resistance). I've seen the pen next to some sample writing of Ku-jaku, and it looked good in that lighting. But this is a hard pen to nail down because it seems to shift colors with different lighting.

 

@inkstainedruth

You don't seem to have good luck with Café Cremes. If you do get a third one, you'd better send it to me for regular exercise and safe keeping. 😁

 

[inkstainedruth]

15 hours ago, SlowRain said:

 

@inkstainedruth

You don't seem to have good luck with Café Cremes. If you do get a third one, you'd better send it to me for regular exercise and safe keeping. 😁

 

Nice try.  If I could *afford* a third one I sure wouldn't turn around and toss it in the mail.  I'd probably lock it in my safe and only bring it out and ink it up for special occasions.  

But I remember when I bought the first one that it was even nicer looking in person than in photos online....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[A Smug Dill]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:10 PM, SlowRain said:

Sorry if I come across as 龜毛, but this is not a small purchase for me, so I'd like to get it right.

17 hours ago, SlowRain said:

The ink I'm thinking about in the back of my mind is GvFC Deep Sea Green (because of water resistance). I've seen the pen next to some sample writing of Ku-jaku, and it looked good in that lighting. But this is a hard pen to nail down because it seems to shift colors with different lighting.

 

Pray tell, short of “perfect” or “the best I could do with the amount spent”, what would make for getting it “right” to you, so that you can just be over with the ruminating and get on to resolving what seems to be troubling you? What is the minimum criteria that will convince you that you got 1. what you wanted and 2. sufficient value-for-money?

 

For what it's worth, I sincerely hope that you “get it right” and satisfy that criteria with your purchase, and will be happy enough with the pen once you have it in your hands and are using it with the ink of your choice, even (and perhaps especially) if you subsequently discover there is a different pen(-and-ink combination, perhaps) that could make you even happier, but cannot retrospectively change your initial decision. It gives you room to get something more (or different) next time — if there is a next purchase to serve a similar purpose — while already being happy enough with what you have (chosen) in the meantime.

 

It sounds to me you're already quite taken with the M205 Petrol-Marbled. That being the larger “not a small purchase”, perhaps you should just lock that in as the “right” pen (and colourway), and then try a variety of inks (which are significantly less costly a commitment each) in the turquoise/teal colour range for both colour and water resistance until you get the pen-and-ink combination “right”. Again, once you get to the point of being happy that you're satisfied with what you have, there's always room to be even happier when you discover other inks to be paired with the pen, perhaps when new inks are being introduced to the market.

 

There is little point in being mired in analysis paralysis hoping that the decision you commit to today will remain the best one come what may in the next decade or longer. And, even though it's “not a small purchase”, it isn't exactly buying a house you in which you intend to raise your family and/or grow old, and trying to pre-empt all the things that might make such a house unsuitable in the context five or ten years down the track.

 

Many others in the forum would probably advocate that you could always sell this pen as used, if you subsequently find something better, but have no use for keeping both this and the newer purchase, to recoup some of the cost of this acquisition and reduce the impact of a retrospectively sub-optimal decision. Not having a pen with which to write in water-resistant teal ink, as you seem to have a use for and want to get on with doing, simply cannot deliver any value to you at all in the meantime.

[Misfit]

I have several Pelikan pens, mostly in the classic (cheaper in price) line. No issues with the nibs. I really like the broad nib on my Moonstone pen. 

[CeresCafe101]

I got a good one in blue marble. Petrol just didn't hit the spot with me. Also, the black fineal, I felt, is out of place on the petrol. I understand what they were trying to do but the pen, overall, is a bit dark and it is near impossible to find a nice consistent brighter petrol

BCABADB6-4F7E-43D1-998B-F687025C231F_1_201_a.heic

[Bo Bo Olson]

IMO get a used or NOS from 5 or more years old 200. It will have a classic tear drop tipped regular flex/Japanese soft) nib & therefore a nice clean line. 

Those 200'sthat are about 5 years old and younger have 'ruined' double ball tips. IMO not a nice clean line like the older 'pre'98 semi-vintage. (82-97) & 200's until about five years ago.

 

The modern fat and blobby 200 is still a regular flex/Japanese soft, nib not the semi-nail of the modern 400/600...the modern 800 is a nail. The older 1000's nibs from Bock to @ 2010 were semi-flex since then they are regular flex....like the 200. They are all now fat and blobby, so the line is not as clean as the older 200's, the semi-vintage and vintage nibs.

 

The 200 IMO is a very well balanced pen ...posted, like the 400 or 600. (Same size as the 400)....You can always ask around for a classic tear drop tipped steel 200's nib. The gold 400's semi-vintage tear drop writes no better or worse thanthe that next ear's grand 200's nib.

I don't brag the new 200's I have. Some pretty colors the marbled brown or Petrol.

 

I still have not got use to my Large W.Germany 800 or my oversized 1005. But I grew up using fountain pens in the late '50's-60's, where standard size was normal....and a medium-large P-51 was at least by me considered a big adult pen.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

C vFC Moss Green is way, way too expensive....It's not an ink I have used twice....I'm not sure if it's nearly like the new no shading dull Pelikan 4001 Dark Green.

I'm not going to waste my time cleaning a pen with that new 4001 dark green to run a comparison.

I do remember looking at the line dark green from GvFC's $$$$ Moss green and wondering which of the many Diamine dark greens matched it.

I living in Germany have enough trouble gathering the basic 100 Mainland Euro inks with out going over to the hundreds of Diamine inks............In I'll never buy any ink that is more than E 20....looks like I'll be looking hard at Diamine inks.

 

I got the discontinued 4001 Pelikan Brilliant Green*** (not liked by them that wanted a Diamine dark forest green in Pelikan.) I happen to like the lively green-green Brilliant green.

In a paper test of mine that ended up with every green I could find. In lively green-green inks,  R&K Verdura beat MB Irish Green by a nose and Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Green by a neck. (All three of those inks are good two toned shading green-green inks.

Just in case someone likes a lively green ink...R&K is ome E-8-9 the last time I looked, and at E-23 for MB Irish I'm not going to sell my Toyota to get it. I got a bottle a couple years ago at E-15 when it came out. (It's just a status rip off, having nothing to do with (today's) inflation that wasn't there until last year.)

 

I do recommend looks at the many dark greens of Diamine. Should be able to get 4-5 different green Diamine inks for the price of one overly expensive GvFC.

 

***I than got 14 green-greenish inks that year, the next 5 more in the next couple years and finally on bottle 20, Lamy Crystal Amozonite (also disliked by some folks....don't know why....outside the bottle is a tad small.)

I got some 90 inks.....lots of folks here have hundreds.

 

After-all, we are living in The Golden Age of Inks.