PARKER FANTASY HYPOTHETICAL: You're the new owner of Parker Pen Co. What's your pen lineup?

[donnweinberg]

15 hours ago, aurore said:

I would introduce piston a filler line based on Duofold Centennial line, using the nicest acrylic used for Centennials in last 30 years (Pearl & Black, Citrine Check, Amber Check Burgundy L.E. etc.). 

And would relaunch Penman inks but tuned to avoid the infamous troubles they caused. 

 

I like your thinking here.  Offering an internal piston filler on the Centennial, probably at a higher price than on the C/C version, would give the pen more gravitas and make it more fun/interesting to fill and clean.  I also love the Penman colors, and recently on Ebay purchased 6 NOS bottles in various colors (didn't have Sapphire).  If Parker could offer those wonderful, saturated colors without the clogging issues, that would be great.

[Targa]

On 7/15/2022 at 8:17 AM, donnweinberg said:

 

I like your thinking here.  Offering an internal piston filler on the Centennial, probably at a higher price than on the C/C version, would give the pen more gravitas and make it more fun/interesting to fill and clean.  I also love the Penman colors, and recently on Ebay purchased 6 NOS bottles in various colors (didn't have Sapphire).  If Parker could offer those wonderful, saturated colors without the clogging issues, that would be great.

I would go for that.  The Duofold line deserves to be upgraded.  It relaunched Parker in 1988, and to some extent helped relaunch posh fountain pens in general.  If my read of market matters is right, fountain pens are presently actually resurgent (I am surprised and pleased) and another splash would be good.  I assume the whole point of this thread is that Newell would no longer be in charge, but I would certainly not want them to be in charge of design and production of these pens.  (Mind you, at least the nib production is still very good, but they would need a size larger for the piston filler.) It would need a whole new focus and locus.  I stand by my prior position on Denmark and vicinity of Vancouver BC.  

I'm not convinced on the Penman ink, nor Superchrome, having had unhappy experiences with both historically.  Just private-label Diamine.  

[TheRedBeard]

1 hour ago, Targa said:

I would go for that.  The Duofold line deserves to be upgraded.  It relaunched Parker in 1988, and to some extent helped relaunch posh fountain pens in general.  If my read of market matters is right, fountain pens are presently actually resurgent (I am surprised and pleased) and another splash would be good.  I assume the whole point of this thread is that Newell would no longer be in charge, but I would certainly not want them to be in charge of design and production of these pens.  (Mind you, at least the nib production is still very good, but they would need a size larger for the piston filler.) It would need a whole new focus and locus.  I stand by my prior position on Denmark and vicinity of Vancouver BC.  

I'm not convinced on the Penman ink, nor Superchrome, having had unhappy experiences with both historically.  Just private-label Diamine.  

All Duofolds must be produced in restored/relaunched Newhaven factory, as the best Duofolds have been the English-made ones  

It will be a winner again  

And I support you suggestion on private-label Diamine ink.

 

[Parker51]

34 minutes ago, TheRedBeard said:

All Duofolds must be produced in restored/relaunched Newhaven factory, as the best Duofolds have been the English-made ones  

It will be a winner again  

And I support you suggestion on private-label Diamine ink.

 

And Newell would be responsible for any issues related to the discontinuation of Parker Pen production in France.

[TheRedBeard]

25 minutes ago, Parker51 said:

And Newell would be responsible for any issues related to the discontinuation of Parker Pen production in France.

I don't care about Rubbishmade at all LOL  

[Parker51]

7 hours ago, TheRedBeard said:

I don't care about Rubbishmade at all LOL  

Rubbermaid was a very good company. Newell, a conglomerate bought it, closed down Rubbermaid’s headquarters and siphoned off its profits to spend elsewhere. 
 

They closed down Parker UK, after having earlier shut down Parker US in an effort to reduce costs, consolidating Parker operations to Parker UK, transferring production to Waterman in France in a move to further increase efficiency by only operating one Fine Pen production facility. It is my understanding that the reason they shut down Parker rather than Waterman, was due to certain stranded costs they would have faced if Waterman was shut down, which were not an issue with Parker being shut down. 

Currently it appears that the Parker/ Waterman operation is seen as a possible growth opportunity for Newell. Why, I am uncertain, but I suspect because it is seen as an entrée to the Luxury Goods market.

 

If I was somehow able to purchase Parker and furthermore had the funds to invest in new and renewed production I would want to gain the cooperation of Newell as they control the Parker archives. I viewed a presentation on them at the Chicago Pen show and gaining them along with the intellectual property of Parker would be essential. Detangling Parker from Waterman would be a challenge as well.

 

Now you may think I am overthinking all of this and I should ignore all realities, just as I am supposed to ignore my not having the money to buy Parker, but short of magic, it is not possible. And if we are to have magical capabilities, well then I would magically change history and Parker would have never have been sold and still would be an Independent Co. largely owned by the Parker family and still operating in the US and the UK. I would have the job of Vice-President for new pen design and a big budget to spend on research and development along with a hefty advertising budget and a large global network of retailers. With my magic powers there would be a full service Company owned Parker store in every city in the US and UK with a population of a Million or more and in every city in the rest of the world with a population of 5 Million or more, with licensed dealers in smaller cities and outlying districts of the cities with Company stores. Oh, and sales would be sufficient as to keep it all going with a good cash flow.

 

 

[aurore]

4 hours ago, Parker51 said:

Rubbermaid was a very good company. Newell, a conglomerate bought it, closed down Rubbermaid’s headquarters and siphoned off its profits to spend elsewhere. 
 

They closed down Parker UK, after having earlier shut down Parker US in an effort to reduce costs, consolidating Parker operations to Parker UK, transferring production to Waterman in France in a move to further increase efficiency by only operating one Fine Pen production facility. It is my understanding that the reason they shut down Parker rather than Waterman, was due to certain stranded costs they would have faced if Waterman was shut down, which were not an issue with Parker being shut down. 

Currently it appears that the Parker/ Waterman operation is seen as a possible growth opportunity for Newell. Why, I am uncertain, but I suspect because it is seen as an entrée to the Luxury Goods market.

 

If I was somehow able to purchase Parker and furthermore had the funds to invest in new and renewed production I would want to gain the cooperation of Newell as they control the Parker archives. I viewed a presentation on them at the Chicago Pen show and gaining them along with the intellectual property of Parker would be essential. Detangling Parker from Waterman would be a challenge as well.

 

Now you may think I am overthinking all of this and I should ignore all realities, just as I am supposed to ignore my not having the money to buy Parker, but short of magic, it is not possible. And if we are to have magical capabilities, well then I would magically change history and Parker would have never have been sold and still would be an Independent Co. largely owned by the Parker family and still operating in the US and the UK. I would have the job of Vice-President for new pen design and a big budget to spend on research and development along with a hefty advertising budget and a large global network of retailers. With my magic powers there would be a full service Company owned Parker store in every city in the US and UK with a population of a Million or more and in every city in the rest of the world with a population of 5 Million or more, with licensed dealers in smaller cities and outlying districts of the cities with Company stores. Oh, and sales would be sufficient as to keep it all going with a good cash flow.

 

 

 

Well, just to accent a couple of details... The Newhaven factory - where my beloved Centennial used to be produced since 1987 - had played a crucial role since 1986 till 2009 (when they shut it down and got rid of 2 hundreds of employees, then took all the equipment and left for France). In 1986 - after a a period of hopeless struggling and useless investments - a management buyout happened and the headquaters moved to England becoming rather a British company with another factory in States instead of an American company with a factory in Europe. Then they were trying to sell the company further but that happened only in 1992/1993 when Gillette bought it and it joined Waterman that was already owned by the razors maker. Subsequently all of these were sold (in 2000) to the mentioned Newell. 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/parker-pen-sold-for-pounds-285m-after-hunt-for-buyer-1550701.html 

That said the Newhaven Centennials were the last essentially British made high end fountain pens, incl. the acrylics and above all the nibs. The rest (including modern Conway Stewart and Yard-o-Led) have been buying the nibs from Bock and lately from JoWo and in case of Conway Stewart even the resin was Italian (not sure whether still is).

[Parker51]

18 hours ago, aurore said:

 

Well, just to accent a couple of details... The Newhaven factory - where my beloved Centennial used to be produced since 1987 - had played a crucial role since 1986 till 2009 (when they shut it down and got rid of 2 hundreds of employees, then took all the equipment and left for France). In 1986 - after a a period of hopeless struggling and useless investments - a management buyout happened and the headquaters moved to England becoming rather a British company with another factory in States instead of an American company with a factory in Europe. Then they were trying to sell the company further but that happened only in 1992/1993 when Gillette bought it and it joined Waterman that was already owned by the razors maker. Subsequently all of these were sold (in 2000) to the mentioned Newell. 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/parker-pen-sold-for-pounds-285m-after-hunt-for-buyer-1550701.html 

That said the Newhaven Centennials were the last essentially British made high end fountain pens, incl. the acrylics and above all the nibs. The rest (including modern Conway Stewart and Yard-o-Led) have been buying the nibs from Bock and lately from JoWo and in case of Conway Stewart even the resin was Italian (not sure whether still is).

Thank you for the details. 
Suffice to say Parker has not been the Parker of old and instead it has had a series of owners which has brought it to its current situation, as a Brand owned by Newell, merged into Waterman and for its fine pens, made in France. I don’t know where it’s mass market pens are made as I haven’t bought any in many years, My last new Parker was a Centennial which was made in France.

 

And so it would appear that for the right price Newell likely would sell Parker. Honestly, if I did have the assets to buy it I likely would not as there are other more tempting pen makers that might be available at a lower price which would leave more money for research, development and the introduction of new models. Parker may be running largely on the accumulated wealth of earlier designs, especially what was produced at Newhaven, but it still has a lot of intangible value which makes it valuable as a profit maker to purchase, but not as an entity for innovation. 

[donnweinberg]

My intention in starting this topic included purchasing (hypothetically) all of Parker (including the archives) from Newell/Rubbermaid and being free to do whatever one wanted, with the only "constraint" being that one should make at least a modest profit.  That way, you (the new owner) can move manufacturing wherever you wish and can decide on a pen and ink lineup as you see fit.  The ideas so far are terrific.  Let's use our imaginations.  

[Targa]

2 hours ago, donnweinberg said:

My intention in starting this topic included purchasing (hypothetically) all of Parker (including the archives) from Newell/Rubbermaid and being free to do whatever one wanted, with the only "constraint" being that one should make at least a modest profit.  That way, you (the new owner) can move manufacturing wherever you wish and can decide on a pen and ink lineup as you see fit.  The ideas so far are terrific.  Let's use our imaginations.  

And the intent has become reality.  The 2 big messages that come through to me are that a) The name / brand of Parker still has a strong hold on many hearts, and the basis is still there for a resurrection; and b) many of us feel that Newell is squandering it for a last few Euros until it fades away.  

I saw that there is a related thread in the Sheaffer forum.  I fear that one would require not a pen-loving business guru, but rather someone expert in emergency medicine, or perhaps hemorrhagic fever.  Or maybe even gangrene.  Maybe, if there were a billionaire savior, the first new pen could be "The Lazarus". 

Terrible shame was Cross has (not) done.  I have loved many old Sheaffers. 

14 hours ago, Parker51 said:

And if we are to have magical capabilities, well then I would magically change history and Parker would have never have been sold and still would be an Independent Co. largely owned by the Parker family and still operating in the US and the UK. I would have the job of Vice-President for new pen design and a big budget to spend on research and development along with a hefty advertising budget and a large global network of retailers. With my magic powers there would be a full service Company owned Parker store in every city in the US and UK with a population of a Million or more and in every city in the rest of the world with a population of 5 Million or more, with licensed dealers in smaller cities and outlying districts of the cities with Company stores. Oh, and sales would be sufficient as to keep it all going with a good cash flow.

Wow.  I don't know how old you are but this sounds like like 1927 anemoia.  But I would at least enjoy a dream like that.  (Instead of my usual nightmares about being stuck in some foreign airport with no luggage and my phone does not work.  Sio just another normal day at work

)

[aurore]

I honestly realize the whole project is supposed to be commercially meaningful. 

That said the FPs market is not the best place to invest these days. People these days tend to pay premium only for pens that seem to be somewhat less mass-made, even if they are not necessarily well-worth. Such as Conid. The filling mechanism, the built quality. A simple c/c pen for a premium price, whatever fancy the appearance is, it is a no go if you want to succeed. 

In case of Parker Duofold the acrylic used is great, so what must be done is introducing well tuned trouble free piston fillers with fancy acrylics of this quality (particularly some fancy demonstrators - such as translucent pearl like acrylics - these could become a real hit). 

Secondly, one would need to introduce a premium line of inks (= heavily overpriced excellent inks in fancy bottles). Rebranded Diamine is a no go. At all. There are tons of Diamine, rebranded or not. I like them, but they smear and smudge, they have no water resistance and no lightfastness. Selling them at premium prices is a rip-off. Sooner or later the customers will find out and are going to hate you. Instead better dyes are needed (at least providing a good level of lightfastness, unlike Diamine and resistance to any smears etc. (read = unlike Majestic Blue). Premium quality inks are as important as pens, they might bring even more revenues than pens. 

Beside this, premium leather pen cases are needed, they also have a potential. 

And after all why not branded premium quality notepads, polishing and cleaning kits etc.?

 

 

[txomsy]

Problem is, at some point most companies speciallized. They became pen makers, or paper mills, or ink brewers, or whatever.

 

That has implicit in itself stagnation and extinction. Because you depend on others to make a profit from your product, so you cannot break through with incompatible innovations and then, at some point after some time and research, there is little more you can improve, you stagnate and customers flee for any novelty.

 

So, one has to broaden its scope. If you sell 'writing instruments' it should encompass all, the pen, the paper, the ink, whatever is used to write. So, why not make an app and stylus that let you write? Why not make a notebook designed for automatic digitisation? A pen coupled to a tablet and software that recognizes your handwriting? New kinds of "paper"? Inks that can write in non-paper surfaces? Ink and feed systems that can work in new ways like underwater, in vacuum, upside.down,...?

 

If Parker sold FPs and at some point decided to also sell BPs, ... why not go the full length through? And in doing so, why not exploit human trends?

 

Many workers still depend on lead pencils for their daily work. Ikea itself used to give away pencils so people could note down the goods they wanted to buy. The point is, different needs demand different solutions, one may aim for a one-size-fits-all solution, but that will fall short for most users.

 

Some people will want to draw, some will want their artwork to be permanent, some will want calligraphy and different nib types/widths, some will want to show off, maybe some will want something to write on bark on a tree an arrow-crossed heart with their beloved and theirs names, some will demand technical solutions, many may fall for an IA app that recognizes their scribbles, either in the writing surface or the pen itself...

 

That's synergy. You may start selling Duofolds, but diversifying to also offer pencils, ballpoint pens, technical pens, etc.. will send an image of "I have every writers' dream tool".

 

This can only be done if you research new materials to write on (like a tablet or phone, but also, say, plastic papers, fire-resistant materials, metals, other surfaces...) and for those you may need new ways to leave a mark on them, one that can be washed and one that sticks permanently, and maybe one that's permanent but can easily be erased (and recovered) with special methods. And if you start using new surfaces and new "inks" then you will need to develop new tools to write.

 

Or, if you prefer, you get rid of limitations and free yourself to explore new writing/drawing/marking/whatever methods and tools.

 

So, imagine an "FP" that works with India ink. Or that melts a plastic ink. Or that lays graphene trails on surfaces. Or that can write upside-down. Or an ink that can write underwater and accompanying pen and "paper". An ink to write on marble and ceramics exposed outside in construction sites and a special solution to clean it afterwards, and a special "pencil" to use it.

 

And once you've freed yourself and your customers you can also build a "way of life" around it. Montblanc, for instance, has survived by becoming a brand that sells a (luxurious) "lifestyle": they offer premium pens, premium inks, premium notebooks, and then all sort of luxury items that cluster in a coherent constellation.

 

In other words, I think that there is still way too much to handwriting or, rather to using one's hands to lay down marks that convey a meaning, for utilitarian reasons, to communicate, to impress or to remember (or many other uses). And I also believe two things: one, that most people would like more freedom in expression and two, that sticking to traditional ways of doing things is at the root of the decline in sales.

 

So, why not explore new ways to do things? Obviously if you only make "fountain pens" you are at the mercy of ink and paper makers. If you take in your hands the ink and depart from traditional inks, you can invent novel "ballpoint pens". Just imagine what could be done if a company explored ways to write on something other than paper with something other than "ink" (not just water based or oil based).

 

Moleskine and others are starting to sell notebooks designed for digitization. Why not have pens that digitize from your movement, with OCR, Bluetooth connection and built-in memory -and also leave a trace on a surface just in case? Why not explore new "inks"? Why not make combinations of ink and something else to obtain special effects or write in new places? What about a pen that works like a regulable aerograph? A mark that can only be seen in special conditions for manufacturing processes?

 

Design, as discussed so far is nice and good, and certainly necessary and essential, but, in my most humble opinion, if limited to old ways of doing things it is doomed in the end. It's 21st C, time to come up with new ideas. And to not forget the old ones. Specially since the new ones will also drive sales of the oldies.

 

In summary: why limit a company to be dependent on others to innovate and drive it, instead of taking the reins and innovating oneself?

 

If it were me, I'd invest in R+D, and come up with new, appealing "writing" systems for artists, technicians, workers, bloggers, designers, computer scientists... and sell them synergistically.

 

You'd have the different models in BP, FP, pencil, stylus, "wireless mouse" (movement sensing) to be used like a drawing pad, and as soon as possible, with an app for writing on the cell phone or tablet, and then as soon again, with an IA to OCR users' writing, and maybe a "send" button to automatically mail/upload the content from internal memory... and the associated inks, paper, apps, tablets, etc...

 

Then, whether it is designed as a Duofold or a Jotter, and with more or less extra functionality, in more or less luxury, durable or cheap materials, at higher or lower price would be secondary and marketing-driven.

 

And I'd try to build an associated identifiable "lifestyle" around the products. Something distinctive that made users proud. Which is also mostly marketing.

[Parker51]

6 hours ago, txomsy said:

Problem is, at some point most companies speciallized. They became pen makers, or paper mills, or ink brewers, or whatever.

 

That has implicit in itself stagnation and extinction. Because you depend on others to make a profit from your product, so you cannot break through with incompatible innovations and then, at some point after some time and research, there is little more you can improve, you stagnate and customers flee for any novelty.

 

So, one has to broaden its scope. If you sell 'writing instruments' it should encompass all, the pen, the paper, the ink, whatever is used to write. So, why not make an app and stylus that let you write? Why not make a notebook designed for automatic digitisation? A pen coupled to a tablet and software that recognizes your handwriting? New kinds of "paper"? Inks that can write in non-paper surfaces? Ink and feed systems that can work in new ways like underwater, in vacuum, upside.down,...?

 

If Parker sold FPs and at some point decided to also sell BPs, ... why not go the full length through? And in doing so, why not exploit human trends?

 

Many workers still depend on lead pencils for their daily work. Ikea itself used to give away pencils so people could note down the goods they wanted to buy. The point is, different needs demand different solutions, one may aim for a one-size-fits-all solution, but that will fall short for most users.

 

Some people will want to draw, some will want their artwork to be permanent, some will want calligraphy and different nib types/widths, some will want to show off, maybe some will want something to write on bark on a tree an arrow-crossed heart with their beloved and theirs names, some will demand technical solutions, many may fall for an IA app that recognizes their scribbles, either in the writing surface or the pen itself...

 

That's synergy. You may start selling Duofolds, but diversifying to also offer pencils, ballpoint pens, technical pens, etc.. will send an image of "I have every writers' dream tool".

 

This can only be done if you research new materials to write on (like a tablet or phone, but also, say, plastic papers, fire-resistant materials, metals, other surfaces...) and for those you may need new ways to leave a mark on them, one that can be washed and one that sticks permanently, and maybe one that's permanent but can easily be erased (and recovered) with special methods. And if you start using new surfaces and new "inks" then you will need to develop new tools to write.

 

Or, if you prefer, you get rid of limitations and free yourself to explore new writing/drawing/marking/whatever methods and tools.

 

So, imagine an "FP" that works with India ink. Or that melts a plastic ink. Or that lays graphene trails on surfaces. Or that can write upside-down. Or an ink that can write underwater and accompanying pen and "paper". An ink to write on marble and ceramics exposed outside in construction sites and a special solution to clean it afterwards, and a special "pencil" to use it.

 

And once you've freed yourself and your customers you can also build a "way of life" around it. Montblanc, for instance, has survived by becoming a brand that sells a (luxurious) "lifestyle": they offer premium pens, premium inks, premium notebooks, and then all sort of luxury items that cluster in a coherent constellation.

 

In other words, I think that there is still way too much to handwriting or, rather to using one's hands to lay down marks that convey a meaning, for utilitarian reasons, to communicate, to impress or to remember (or many other uses). And I also believe two things: one, that most people would like more freedom in expression and two, that sticking to traditional ways of doing things is at the root of the decline in sales.

 

So, why not explore new ways to do things? Obviously if you only make "fountain pens" you are at the mercy of ink and paper makers. If you take in your hands the ink and depart from traditional inks, you can invent novel "ballpoint pens". Just imagine what could be done if a company explored ways to write on something other than paper with something other than "ink" (not just water based or oil based).

 

Moleskine and others are starting to sell notebooks designed for digitization. Why not have pens that digitize from your movement, with OCR, Bluetooth connection and built-in memory -and also leave a trace on a surface just in case? Why not explore new "inks"? Why not make combinations of ink and something else to obtain special effects or write in new places? What about a pen that works like a regulable aerograph? A mark that can only be seen in special conditions for manufacturing processes?

 

Design, as discussed so far is nice and good, and certainly necessary and essential, but, in my most humble opinion, if limited to old ways of doing things it is doomed in the end. It's 21st C, time to come up with new ideas. And to not forget the old ones. Specially since the new ones will also drive sales of the oldies.

 

In summary: why limit a company to be dependent on others to innovate and drive it, instead of taking the reins and innovating oneself?

 

If it were me, I'd invest in R+D, and come up with new, appealing "writing" systems for artists, technicians, workers, bloggers, designers, computer scientists... and sell them synergistically.

 

You'd have the different models in BP, FP, pencil, stylus, "wireless mouse" (movement sensing) to be used like a drawing pad, and as soon as possible, with an app for writing on the cell phone or tablet, and then as soon again, with an IA to OCR users' writing, and maybe a "send" button to automatically mail/upload the content from internal memory... and the associated inks, paper, apps, tablets, etc...

 

Then, whether it is designed as a Duofold or a Jotter, and with more or less extra functionality, in more or less luxury, durable or cheap materials, at higher or lower price would be secondary and marketing-driven.

 

And I'd try to build an associated identifiable "lifestyle" around the products. Something distinctive that made users proud. Which is also mostly marketing.

What you are suggesting in part has already been done, just not by Parker, rather by Montblanc. 
 

https://www.montblanc.com/en-us/collection/refills-stationery/all-stationery/augmented-paper-notebooks

[afishhunter]

Classic 51/21 with Aerometric and lever fill options. Firm or rigid extra fine or fine nibs, suitable for business use. 

 

Other classic style torpedo/cigar profile with a choice of Aerometric or lever fill, and screw-in nib/feed housings using a standard N°5; N°6; or N°8 nib, depending on the size of the pen. Nib choices of extra fine to broad, and Italic, rigid to flex that actually flex without putting several pounds pressure on the nib, like so many of today's quote/unquote "flex" nibs. Might offer a choice of stub nibs, from 0.7 to 2.5 or 3mm.

 

The only cartridge/converter pens I'd offer would still have the classic styling and colors, but be aimed at the student market. They would still be suitable for use in an office and by "blue collar" workers, tradesmen, etc.

I would include a converter, and not use a proprietary cartridge or converter. I've never had ink flow issues with my pens that use the 2.6mm bore "International" long and/or short cartridges, so would use those cartridges and converters.

No retractable point fountain pens, either.

 

 

 

 

Barrel/Cap materials would be modern resins. No celluloid or plastics used in the '40's to '90's, and aluminum. I'd probably have a few wood barreled (and capped?) pens, using various exotic woods. 

 

Since according to the scenario "I have to make at least a small profit..." I'd price them at $0.01 to $0.10 the average unit cost of making them, which includes labor, utilities, etc.