EFNIR: Herbin Perle Noire

[LizEF]

8 hours ago, arcfide said:

"Well, we had a real challenge creating Noir Abyssal because we wanted to make the best, most premium black ink that was on the market, but when we did our tests, we discovered that we pretty much already did have that in our Perle Noir ink; so it was really a challenge to try to beat our own ink with something even better."

  Thanks for the back-story, @arcfide!  Good stuff.

[LizEF]

37 minutes ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

Oh, I was just getting started!  Lamy Black, Montblanc, Quink, Skrip, another Monteverde (Onyx?), Chesterfield Obsidian, Pelikan, Aurora (meh), Noodler's regular (too long dry time), and Bad Black Mocassin (yes, it was bad), PR Black Velvet, and my most-hated and the most recommended to me, Namiki.

 

And I'm probably forgetting a couple.  I'm not obssessed.  What makes you think that?

 

I was right.  Forgot Sailor Black, in carts.

  Let us know when you find perfection - everyone's always wanting to know which black ink is the best...

 

Obsessed?  What makes you think I think you're obsessed?  I think understanding your thinking on this thinking that we think you're obsessed might be the key to unlocking your obsession, or at least your thinking about obsessions, perhaps even your obsessive thinking....  

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

10 hours ago, arcfide said:

I remember one interesting comment that was made a while back by Herbin when they were discussing their new Jacques Herbin Encres Essentielles line, Noir Abyssal in particular. If I translated my interpretation of what he said into American-ese, it went something like this: "Well, we had a real challenge creating Noir Abyssal because we wanted to make the best, most premium black ink that was on the market, but when we did our tests, we discovered that we pretty much already did have that in our Perle Noir ink; so it was really a challenge to try to beat our own ink with something even better." Of course, the real conversation was something a little less self-congratulatory, but that's the way I interpreted it. I also like the fact that I do believe their story that Perle Noir is probably one of the oldest inks in existence in terms of being somewhat close to its original formulation and having a long history as a specific product. I think maybe only Diamine and Pelikan have anything approaching that kind of pedigree with a single ink product, and even there, I don't know that Diamine has any specifically named product going back that far, though Pelikan's 4001 series goes back a long ways. 

 

One unique element to Herbin's black inks, IMO, is their distinctly matte appearance relative to their competitors. When you swatch Herbin Noir Abyssal or Perle Noir, they both have a distinctly matte finish which few if any other dye-based black inks I've used have. The chromatography of Perle Noire is actually close to others like Lamy Black and Take-sumi, but both of those inks have more sheen and gloss than Perle Noir. The only thing I've seen come kind of close is MB Permanent Black, but that has a little sooty appearance and feel that Perle Noir lacks. 

Yeah, Perle Noire probably is one of the blackest inks in the fp ink market (Aurora black and MB Perm black might be close, but AB doesn't have the water resistance, and the MB is pigment based) thanks to the lack of gloss. I have a hard time believing that Noir Abyssal can be better than Perle Noire while still being 100% conventional dye based.

[arcfide]

9 hours ago, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

I have a hard time believing that Noir Abyssal can be better than Perle Noire while still being 100% conventional dye based.

 

I think they're very close. I think I'm going to have an opportunity and motivation to see what the difference between them is in some pens, but at the very least they tend to swatch similarly. I suspect, but can't prove yet, that the main difference might simply be the amount of surfactant, dyes, or lubricants in the ink, leading to the Noir Abyssal maybe being a little more wet and a little more lubricated. That alone, if true, would lead to a little richer flow, and thus a little more consistently black color compared to perhaps a little less saturated Perle Noir. I know that they are clearly built on the same basic dye structure (what looks like a combination of dark green and violet dyes), but I can't really speak definitively to anything else beyond that. I think it probably depends a lot on what you define as "better". The whole premium Jacques Herbin line seems dedicated to intense colors that are pretty saturated and wet (their blue is insanely wet by most ink standards), which is in pretty stark contrast to their standard ink line, but that can also lead to more finicky behavior on papers. That probably means that it's a tradeoff of what you want in an ink to determine which one would be better or worse. 

[dftr]

On 5/25/2022 at 6:40 AM, Sailor Kenshin said:

Oh, I was just getting started!  Lamy Black, Montblanc, Quink, Skrip, another Monteverde (Onyx?), Chesterfield Obsidian, Pelikan, Aurora (meh), Noodler's regular (too long dry time), and Bad Black Mocassin (yes, it was bad), PR Black Velvet, and my most-hated and the most recommended to me, Namiki.

 

And I'm probably forgetting a couple.  I'm not obssessed.  What makes you think that?

 

I was right.  Forgot Sailor Black, in carts.

I have not tried Lamy or Monteverde or Mocassin but tried the others...  but my top 3 black inks, Dominant Industry Base black (lovely bronze/gold sheen), Kyoto TAG Nurebairo (great black w/ blue sheen), Platinum Carbon Black (pure dark and permanent).  Aurora's really good but I wanted to try other less popular inks   

[markofp]

If anyone in the CONUS is interested in the 500ml bottle of Perle Noir, this one is 100% full and sealed, and it's yours for $60.00 shipped. PM me if interested.

[LizEF]

That's a lot of ink!

[JulieParadise]

I have one of those bottles and I looooove the thought of probably never running out of my favourite ink. 

[dhanks]

9 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

I have one of those bottles and I looooove the thought of probably never running out of my favourite ink. 

You're going to need a bigger bottle!

Rumpole

[inkstainedruth]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:14 AM, yazeh said:

Great review @LizEf

It looks like a really nice ink. I'm not a fan of black ink, though

That snek of yours is creating an ear worm:

Snek, snek, snek

snek, snek, snek,

snek your booty 🕺

 

I hope that improves on the silence  

 

NOOOOOOO!

Now I'm going to be ear worming that for the next several hours -- and I mostly HATE disco music....

Grrrrrr.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[LizEF]

52 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

disco

Hmm.  Disco snek.  Hmm....

[agentdaffy007]

@arcfide, my Jacques Herbin Bleu de Minuit has to be the wettest ink that I own.

[chromantic]

Funny you should mention smearing, I had that problem with a couple Herbin's I tried early on, Bleu Pervenche and Lie de The, if memory serves. Don't recall it on Cacao du Brezil, which I tried again recently, or Bleu de Profondeurs but I was only using them on the copy at work.

[LizEF]

27 minutes ago, chromantic said:

Funny you should mention smearing, I had that problem with a couple Herbin's I tried early on, Bleu Pervenche and Lie de The, if memory serves. Don't recall it on Cacao du Brezil, which I tried again recently, or Bleu de Profondeurs but I was only using them on the copy at work.

I think ink behavior has so many variables that we have to take each experience as a possibility more than as a certainty.  I don't remember the others (except Bleu Pervenche, which I don't have) smearing, but then, I've done so many that they're all a blur now.

[Phonz]

Red as the rolling bones tongue logo, paint it black LizEF.  Great! Great 👍🏼 and a unique deep ink review thank you! 

[LizEF]

31 minutes ago, Phonz said:

Red as the rolling bones tongue logo, paint it black LizEF.  Great! Great 👍🏼 and a unique deep ink review thank you! 

Thank you, @Phonz!  You're very welcome!

[The_Beginner]

On 5/24/2022 at 5:59 AM, LizEF said:

Extra Fine Nib Ink Review: Herbin Perle Noire

This is review #184 in my series.  Here's the YouTube video:

Post-recording notes: Cleaning was quick and easy. The ink is black and the images look black. This ink was dark red under the microscope (like Private Reserve Infinity Black), but the smear was otherwise uninteresting, so I'm not including an image. The strange thing about this ink isn't the color, but why the behavior is so different from other reviews - it's supposed to be a very dry ink, which means the lines should be narrower than they are.  And it's supposed to dry fast, but not for me. The lines do have nice crisp edges (not jagged like some inks), so if that appeals to you, this ink is a good choice.

The line width measurement is one of the lines used for dry time.  Magnification is 100x.  The grid is 100x100µm.  The scale is 330µm, with eleven divisions of 30µm each.  The line width for this ink is roughly 335µm. (For the curious, with 184 inks measured, the average line width is 291µm.)

PS: Earthquake not confirmed by USGS, but there were multiple reports of something like one; no clue what it was. Maybe the military were blowing things up...

And here is a screen of the final result, for those not interested in the video:

Scan of Completed Review:

Zoomed in photo:

Absorbent Paper Closeup (top is puzzle paper like thick newsprint, bottom is old 20lb copy paper):

Line width measured via microscope at 100x:

Images also available on Instagram: @zilxodarap.

Previous Review: Sheaffer Skrip Blue/Black.

Want to influence the inky sequence?  Take the "next ink" poll.

Need to catch up on The Adventures of Quin and Makhabesh?  Find the whole story here.

Hope you enjoy.  Comments appreciated!

this gal i respect her work

[LizEF]

8 hours ago, The_Beginner said:

this gal i respect her work

Thanks, @The_Beginner!

[Fountain_pen]

Just got this ink to use with my first fountain pen(Asvine V126 EF). Using it with a lined Rhodia notebook. Your dry times seem a little long. Seems to be about 30-35 seconds in my experience, and that’s with me pressing on the page. But I am a complete rookie.

Thanks for all your ink reviews. You’ve helped me decide on my first ink and then the subsequent ones I’m going to try. My aim is to find the best workhorse black ink.

[LizEF]

2 hours ago, Fountain_pen said:

Just got this ink to use with my first fountain pen(Asvine V126 EF). Using it with a lined Rhodia notebook. Your dry times seem a little long. Seems to be about 30-35 seconds in my experience, and that’s with me pressing on the page. But I am a complete rookie.

The pen, and which side of the paper, and which specific paper you use all impact dry time.  I'm glad you're getting better dry time than this dot pad (probably the back of the sheet, but this was before I started noting that.

 

2 hours ago, Fountain_pen said:

Thanks for all your ink reviews. You’ve helped me decide on my first ink and then the subsequent ones I’m going to try. My aim is to find the best workhorse black ink.

You're most welcome!   I hope you find an ink you really enjoy - that's important when you're going to use it every day.