Pens comparable to the Pilot 823?

[chemgeek]

A Visconti Homo Sapiens or Sailor Realo have similar writing experiences, with soft, wet nibs. The Realo and Visconti ink capacities are a bit smaller, however.

[CraigN]

I own several Sheaffer Valiant pens.  They are no longer being made, but hold lots of ink and have very smooth nibs.  You can buy these pens online and consider a rebuild of the vacuum filling system, or reach out to Ron Zorn or Gerry Berg (also a FPN contributor) to purchase a pen with a rebuilt filling system.  They come in several material colors and they are all nice.  Start a collection!

 

Good luck with your search.

 

Regards,

Craig

[TitoThePencilPimp]

If non Vac filler. Consider Pelikan m1000, or any other maker who offers a soft nib. I have two Pilot 823, FA and F, and they remind me of each other. The Pilot writing more true than size than the Pelikan.

 

What nibs do you have on your 823's? Would help in offering suggestions.

[markofp]

I have one medium and three fine nibs on my 823s.

 

I'm really liking flat-top pens these days, and the Sailor Pro Gear Realo is a really nice looking pen. That is a good candidate for me. Can anyone vouch for it? The few on-line video reviews that I looked at seem positive. I'm very curious about the "fine-medium" nib, I wonder which way it leans. I usually buy western extra-fines and Japanese fines. 

[A Smug Dill]

10 minutes ago, markofp said:

I'm very curious about the "fine-medium" nib, I wonder which way it leans.

 

It doesn't lean one way or the other; Sailor's MF nib is positioned to be between Sailor's F and Sailor's M nibs of the same (physical) size and type, e.g. ‘large-sized’ 21K gold nibs.

 

FM, or “fine-medium”, is a Pilot nib width grade that Sailor doesn't use.

[sandy101]

Sailor's nibs are excellent. I don't think you will regret owning one. 

[A Smug Dill]

 

If I may:

1 hour ago, sandy101 said:

Sailor's gold nibs are excellent.

 

The steel nibs on the Sailor Fude de Mannen pens are pretty poor, a bit more so than the steel MF nibs on Profit Jr. and Lecoule models. My experience with the steel nibs on Sailor HiAce Neo and desk pens are, um, maybe 50-50 scratchy out-of-the-box — and, for the avoidance of doubt, I meant physically ripping through the paper surface, and catching/trapping paper fibres.

 

But I have no complaints about the twenty or more Sailor gold nibs I have here. OK, maybe that the Zoom nibs are not all consistent in how broad a line one of them would put down when the pen is held at a particular angle.

[TitoThePencilPimp]

12 hours ago, markofp said:

I have one medium and three fine nibs on my 823s.

 

I'm really liking flat-top pens these days, and the Sailor Pro Gear Realo is a really nice looking pen. That is a good candidate for me. Can anyone vouch for it? The few on-line video reviews that I looked at seem positive. I'm very curious about the "fine-medium" nib, I wonder which way it leans. I usually buy western extra-fines and Japanese fines. 

The Realo is a good pen. I mainly collect Pelikans. Besides Pelikan, the second most pens I own are Sailors. Truthfully, I prefer the writing experience of Sailor nibs. Realo can be purchased much cheaper from Japanese sellers on eBay.

 

Sailors have a tactile feedback, not scratchy, but a bit different than Pilot nibs. I have no experience with mf nibs of Sailor. Mainly a ef,f,m Sailor user here. The m is from a Sailor KOP.

 

I prefer piston fillers, but make an exception for Sailor. Since you can purchase a standard Black Sailor with gold trim from Amazon for under $130. Compared to the $230ish Realo. If cc is no issue, maybe get a non-Real Sailor?

[georges zaslavsky]

What about a vintage sheaffer balance oversize with the vac fill ? It is sturdy and well made and properly restored it will last decades.

[BernardoO]

Good afternoon, I've been reading you for a long time, and the truth is that I was very encouraged with the Pilot 823 but the tendency to crack has really stopped me a lot. I don't know if it's my madness, or that unfortunately I only pay attention to such accidents.

[TitoThePencilPimp]

6 hours ago, BernardoO said:

Good afternoon, I've been reading you for a long time, and the truth is that I was very encouraged with the Pilot 823 but the tendency to crack has really stopped me a lot. I don't know if it's my madness, or that unfortunately I only pay attention to such accidents.

they crack because people dissemble it to clean it. which should not be done. My oldest 823 is about 9 years, and never once disassembled it. Has been in constant use, and going strong.

[BernardoO]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:51 PM, TitoThePencilPimp said:

they crack because people dissemble it to clean it. which should not be done. My oldest 823 is about 9 years, and never once disassembled it. Has been in constant use, and going strong.

 

Something that surprises me is that there are no spare barrels at reasonable prices as some colleagues say.

[A Smug Dill]

15 hours ago, BernardoO said:

Something that surprises me is that there are no spare barrels at reasonable prices as some colleagues say.

 

I'm not sure why you'd be surprised, when none of the Japanese ‘Big Three’ fountain pen brands offer spare and replacement (core infrastructure) parts, including but not limited to nibs and nib units, as retail products, never mind whether the asking prices set by the manufacturer and/or regional distributor are ‘reasonable’.

 

(The only notable exception are Pilot Capless nib assemblies, and then only in 18K gold and only in select overseas markets; they are not available for purchase in the Japanese domestic market.) You can buy replacement converters as consumable items that are subject to breakage, wear and tear, but that's about it. A pen barrel is not a consumable item in anyone's view, notwithstanding that it is used directly as the ink reservoir in the Pilot Custom 823; how many years of use of Pilot's fountain pen inks in a Custom 823 is not likely to damage or even stain the walls of the pen barrel.

 

Allowing retail customers and DIY repairers to buy parts for non-authorised repairs or assembly of ‘frankenpens’ are not in their business model, and does not align with their way of thinking. They sell whole writing instruments that proudly bear their brands. If your Japanese ‘Big Three’ brand fountain pen needs repair, you send it back to its manufacturer, and (with or without charging you, the customer) it will return the pen to you in a condition that it deems fit to bear its brand and provides the user experience as the model is designed, if it services your pen at all.

 

Minimising your financial expense may be important to you as a consumer, but that certainly is not their priority. The same goes for getting maximum flexibility out of (the cost of acquiring) a single pen body, and fitting different nibs into it by self-service whimsically. If you want to write with a Pilot/Platinum/Sailor Music nib, then you buy an entire writing instrument that sports a Music nib, and not just the nib (or nib unit); and if you also want to write with an EF nib, you buy another pen to suit your functional need. That's how they operate.

 

Come to think of it, I haven't heard of Aurora and Pelikan sell spare barrels for their piston-filler models as retail products either. Or Opus 88, for their eyedropper-filled models. Visconti and Leonardo Officina Italiana? I'm not sure, since I usually steer clear of those brands myself, but I don't think so.

 

Obviously, if that is not what you want, as the person holding the purse strings it'd be your prerogative to forgo the retail offerings of those brands.

 

p.s. Welcome to FPN, by the way.

 

[TitoThePencilPimp]

I would like to add that out of the big 3, Pilot appears to have the better customer services, with Sailor being the worst.

 

 

[XYZZY]

17 hours ago, BernardoO said:

 

Something that surprises me is that there are no spare barrels at reasonable prices as some colleagues say.

  I'm not sure why, but both of your posts are not line wrapped and it makes them tedious to read.

 

A more frequent question from people is how to acquire a replacement nib.  Usually what goes through my mind when somebody asks if Pilot (or Sailor or...) sells replacement nibs is the smart-aleck answer: they do sell replacement nibs, but they cost the same price as the full pen, but they throw in the rest of the pen for free. 😉

 

All it needs is somebody to start: buy a whole pen and part it out.  Keep the barrel for yourself, sell the nib, sell the feed, sell the mechanism. 

[MissCellany]

As someone who owns and regularly uses both a Custom 823 and Pro Gear Realo, I must say that they feel like a good combination to have together. The Sailor is lighter and a bit smaller, whereas the 823 feels more "grounded" in the hand. Wouldn't call the writing experiences similar insofar as they're trying to accomplish the same thing, however they do feel like they fit well side by side, if that makes sense.

[A Smug Dill]

18 hours ago, XYZZY said:

I'm not sure why, but both of your posts are not line wrapped and it makes them tedious to read.

 

I can see the technical ‘why’, but I just can't fathom his motivation for inserting the text as a block of code.

 

[BernardoO]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:07 AM, XYZZY said:

  I'm not sure why, but both of your posts are not line wrapped and it makes them tedious to read.

 

A more frequent question from people is how to acquire a replacement nib.  Usually what goes through my mind when somebody asks if Pilot (or Sailor or...) sells replacement nibs is the smart-aleck answer: they do sell replacement nibs, but they cost the same price as the full pen, but they throw in the rest of the pen for free. 😉

 

All it needs is somebody to start: buy a whole pen and part it out.  Keep the barrel for yourself, sell the nib, sell the feed, sell the mechanism. 

 

 

Hello and sorry, I hope that now the text is as it should be, it seems that something was wrongly adjusted in the browser and I had not observed the problem that you are reporting. Thanks.

 

(*) I will make several attempts with this message and I hope it works.

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

45 minutes ago, BernardoO said:

I will make several attempts with this message and I hope it works.

 

Your text now appears properly word-wrapped inside the frame. Thank you very much!

[tzinc]

don't disassemble it and it won't crack