Can ink freeze

[Shelley]

We have weather that you don't really complain about too much, we say things like 4 seasons in one day but really, as long as you have a brolly or raincoat handy nothing too bad happens, however yesterday was very cold, icy windows, hands freezing on the scooter sort of thing, which got me thinking...can ink freeze and what happens to it? I assume that if it freezes (or at least the water) this will expand and could cause damage to the pen, however I think I read that ink does/might contain glycerine (anti freeze), which would save this.

Rather than go home and stick some ink in the freezer does anyone have the answer-just curious really...

[BillTheEditor]

Yes, ink freezes. That's why there's Noodler Polar Black and Polar Blue.

 

I am pretty sure I remember at least one post here last (N. Hemisphere) winter from a member who had ink freeze in a pen.

 

Don't ask me what happens when the ink freezes though. It never gets that cold in Mesquite. Maybe some of the members from Finland or Minnesota or Canada could tell you.

[encephalartos]

  Shelley said:

We have weather that you don't really complain about too much, we say things like 4 seasons in one day but really, as long as you have a brolly or raincoat handy nothing too bad happens, however yesterday was very cold, icy windows, hands freezing on the scooter sort of thing, which got me thinking...can ink freeze and what happens to it? I assume that if it freezes (or at least the water) this will expand and could cause damage to the pen, however I think I read that ink does/might contain glycerine (anti freeze), which would save this.

Rather than go home and stick some ink in the freezer does anyone have the answer-just curious really...

 

Since it's water-based, the answer is probably yes, it can freeze. We can't tell what the

freezing point is, though, since the dyes or biocides or other additives might change it

from ordinary water. I did divide time between North Dakota and southern California

for a while last year. I carried pens around in a canvas briefcase, checked them through the

airlines with ink in them, and had no trouble with the cold. I did NOT leave them in the

trunk of a car for hours at a time, though. The ink was assorted fountain pen inks, not the

special Polar versions...

[FrankB]

Yes, ink is water based and it freezes. If you just carry ink in a briefcase from the house to the car you have little to worry about. If you must be out in the cold for any extended period, it is best to keep your filled FP close to your body, inside your coat. If you must carry the pen in a briecase or backpack exposed to the weather, get a "coat" for your pen (by wrapping it in a piece of wool or thinsulate cloth).

[saintsimon]

  Shelley said:

however yesterday was very cold, icy windows, hands freezing on the scooter sort of thing, which got me thinking...

 

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/202/klibildwmo93110zeitraumua7.png

Minimum temps (°C) at Auckland Airport.

 

C'mon, that's not considered really cold elsewhere in the world.

 

You down there in beautiful Auckland are not used to a real winter.

 

A former Kiwi colleague of mine, Marc from Auckland, told me a lot about that place. Wish I could live there. (Ok, if one ignores your comparatively low wages.)

[Shelley]

Yeah the wages are a bit lower than elsewhere but you do get the following benefits: water you can drink out of the tap, walk on beaches without fear of stepping on needles, very few shootings (they do happen, even drive bys-but they usually get solved-create national headings when do happen), no nuclear anything, gridlock means 30 min delay, send your kids to school without fear of shootings by deranged school kids, but hey its not all paradise-there are like 3 stores that sell fountain pens...

[BillTheEditor]

  Shelley said:

gridlock means 30 min delay

... kiwis are nice people, must not make sheep jokes ... must resist ... let the aussies do it ... must resist ...

Edited July 25, 2007 by BillTheEditor

[mr T.]

  Quote

Since it's water-based, the answer is probably yes, it can freeze. We can't tell what the freezing point is, though, since the dyes or biocides or other additives might change it from ordinary water.

 

Fountain pen inks can probaby freeze. However, in some inks is ethylene glycol one of the main ingredients. Ethylene glycol is known by most people known as antifreeze. It is used as an ingredient in for example to Quink and Waterman inks. Waterman inks have also glycerine added. Never had any freeze problem using with temperatures as low as -15 C. (using the mentioned inks or cheap cartridges). Probably the ink is with very low temperatures not the biggest problem (a problem that can be in very extreme cases solved by using freeze proof ink), but the construction of the filler or converter is. If the pen is made from resins/plastics, it can crack more easy in very cold weather. So if the temperatures are very low and the fp is expensive and made of plastic/resins, a wooden pencil is the best option.

Edited July 25, 2007 by mr T.

[Shelley]

Thnks Mr T-I knwe there was a reason for keeping my quink...and Bill, we don't call them sheep, we call them South Island Blondes...

[Mac in Alberta]

Yes, ink can freeze. While taking notes while covering an outdoor fundraising skate-a-thon back in the 1970s. I think there was enough ink mass in the pen to stay liquid but as soon as I started taking notes it froze in the nib and the feed.

That was in December or January in Canada, though.

 

[Shelley]

Wow, I have had a similar problem with a drinking tube when mountain climbing in winter here, had to blow back into the tube when finished drinking or it would freeze up.

How did you manage to cure it, and did it damage the pen, I suppose if you tucked it under your arm that would do it...

[Mac in Alberta]

  Shelley said:

Wow, I have had a similar problem with a drinking tube when mountain climbing in winter here, had to blow back into the tube when finished drinking or it would freeze up.

How did you manage to cure it, and did it damage the pen, I suppose if you tucked it under your arm that would do it...

 

Sadly put the pen in an inside pocket and continued with a pencil.

The pen, a Sheaffer school cartridge pen, survived fine for many more years.

 

Murdoch

[mschaffer]

  Shelley said:

We have weather that you don't really complain about too much, we say things like 4 seasons in one day but really, as long as you have a brolly or raincoat handy nothing too bad happens, however yesterday was very cold, icy windows, hands freezing on the scooter sort of thing, which got me thinking...can ink freeze and what happens to it? I assume that if it freezes (or at least the water) this will expand and could cause damage to the pen, however I think I read that ink does/might contain glycerine (anti freeze), which would save this.

Rather than go home and stick some ink in the freezer does anyone have the answer-just curious really...

 

All things made from whole atoms "freeze" with very few known exceptions (e.g. helium 3). It is just a question of at what temperature that this will happen.

 

I believe that this is more a question of "at what temperature does ink become unusable".

 

Freezing is a complicated phenomenon---especially when many species are involved.

 

Most inks have enough different materials in them to have a fairly wide "freezing point"---some substances in the ink may solidify while other substances remain liquid. Some of these frozen substances will contain more of one ink component, and the ratio can change as freezing continues. As the temperature falls more, eventually everything will be a solid.

 

I would also think that the rate of heat loss would affect this---ink in the small, thin channels in a pen can have the heat removed, so it will be more prone to freezing at a given temperature (as Mac in Alberta noted). Ink in the reservoir/sac or a bottle is contained in a space with a lower surface area to volume ratio, so will cool more slowly at the same temperature. The ink substances will also cool at different rates, making this a very complicated business, indeed.

 

Also, most substances contract upon freezing. Water is really the exception to the rule, and there may be enough "other stuff" in the ink to prevent pure ice crystals from forming. So I would say it's anyones guess as to what the final density of the ink could be after freezing---it may even contract.

 

So, does anyone have any freezing range and density change data for any inks after freezing?

[Will Thorpe]

  Mac in Alberta said:

Yes, ink can freeze. While taking notes while covering an outdoor fundraising skate-a-thon back in the 1970s. I think there was enough ink mass in the pen to stay liquid but as soon as I started taking notes it froze in the nib and the feed.

That was in December or January in Canada, though.

 

Hi Mac,

 

I carried a fountain pen in the US Army for over 25 years, never had the ink freeze while in my pocket. In Korea in January the ink in the nib can freeze up pretty fast when in use. Last year I did a highly scientific experiment when it was 22 degrees f in Texas. I put an ink bottle full of water and a bottle of Parker Quink on the table outside (both without tops). The water iced over pretty quick but after two hours the ink was turning to slush, remided me of a snowcone.