Bock #6 gold EF

[Jacqueline W.]

Hello fountain pen collective wisdom:

 

I wonder if you could highlight me here. I've been for many, many years writing exclusively with an Aurora 88 extra fine gold nib or Japanese fine nibs (my usual ones have been those on Platinum 3776, Pilot 823 and the Prera), and have only very recently started to be less dogmatic, and use Bock nibs. I know that European F nibs are in general too broad for me, especially the Lamy and Pelikan. I have recently received a beautiful handmade pen with a steel nib Bock #6 Fine, but I found the nib too broad, so I ordered recently an extra fine, 14k Gold. To my surprise, I can barely see any difference when I write with the EF gold... It is still too broad. I thought first it was an ink or a paper issue, but I tried on several different brands with different inks, from wet to dry, and on the most fountain friendly papers, but it is still too broad for my own writing.

I do have another pen equipped with a Bock #8 extra fine platinum and that one does satisfies me, so why is the Bock #6 gold extra fine still too broad? Is it due to the metal choice? (I'm very ignorant on those matters, but would love to know the why...)

Also, I'm posting a picture here of the two nibs, on the left the Bock steel F, and on the right the Bock gold EF (I had a bit of a hard time seeing the difference between both nibs to be frank!) 

Thank you in advance for your thoughts! 

 

Jacqueline 

[amberleadavis]

I think the modern steel nibs are very nice and for the most part write just as well as modern gold nibs. 

[Jacqueline W.]

But why does the gold Extra fine write as broad as the steel Fine? That was my question. 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Jacqueline W.
typo

[amberleadavis]

 Because of the feed. Look at the breather hold and see how the feed channel is much more open on the steel nib.

[mke]

1 hour ago, Jacqueline W. said:

But why does the gold Extra fine write as broad as the steel Fine

Someone told me that gold nibs generally write a bit broader than the corresponding steel nibs. Might be that your Fine is at the lower limit of Fine, near to the EF. Personally, I find Bock/Jowo F extremely broad.

 

I recently got a Bock Pt950, grinded to a XXF, I guess such a custom-grind (XXF) would suit you better than a factory EF (which has a range of size).

Certainly, it is a little bit finer than a Pilot F - probably similar to a Platinum EF.

 

Here is a comparison between one of my Jowo 18k EFs and my Bock Pt950 XXF:

 

 

 

[amberleadavis]

OH, and the ink makes a difference and the paper, and the air pressure - temperature ... sort of like cats, no two are exactly the same.

[Jacqueline W.]

Thanks! the gold nib #6 EF has more of a "buttery" feel when I write, while the platinum EF (#8) that I have has more feedback but writes finer. 

Well, I'll have my EF gold Bock nib custom-ground at the first occasion... 

[SpecTP]

are you writing with the same light pressure on the gold nib as the steel nib?

[A Smug Dill]

10 hours ago, Jacqueline W. said:

(I had a bit of a hard time seeing the difference between both nibs to be frank!)

 

Well, we can't see the underside of the tipping on the nibs, and that's what really matters. That said,

 

I'd say (what remains of the ball of) the tipping material on the gold EF nib is more elongated in shape, so its underside may well have been ground to have a marginally narrower contact surface with the page. However, I also think the tine gap on the gold EF nib is marginally wider, thus the nib is ‘tuned’ slightly wetter, notwithstanding that the steel F nib sits above an apparently much wider and deeper ink channel; the tine gap on the latter is extremely tight. Then there's the question of whether the surface of the inner walls on the tines of the gold nib is more wettable than that of the steel nib; of that I'm not sure.

[Jacqueline W.]

 

@SpecTP: yes, I've been using the same pen (a Ranga Abhimanyu) with these two different nibs, and with same inks too. The gold EF nib was always broader.

 

@A Smug Dill: thank you for doing this comparison! now I totally see why.

 

 

[essayfaire]

18 hours ago, Jacqueline W. said:

Thanks! the gold nib #6 EF has more of a "buttery" feel when I write, while the platinum EF (#8) that I have has more feedback but writes finer. 

Well, I'll have my EF gold Bock nib custom-ground at the first occasion... 

That was going to be my suggestion!  

[hairlame]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:12 PM, Jacqueline W. said:

Thanks! the gold nib #6 EF has more of a "buttery" feel when I write, while the platinum EF (#8) that I have has more feedback but writes finer. 

Well, I'll have my EF gold Bock nib custom-ground at the first occasion... 

If you're still looking, I've had good luck with the steel EF bock nib (Kaweco branded #6 version for the Supra). I got it on a whim and was impressed that it wrote a nice wet fine line, pretty close to a Sailor fine nib, with no adjustment needed.

I got the EF because I wasn't keen on the relatively broad line from the Bock F nib. I wasn't expecting much, but was surprised at how much finer and crisper the steel EF was compared to the the steel F.  Thank you for posting the pictures of the Bock 14k EF nib, I would not have expected that the tipping width was so close to a steel F nib!

[awa54]

my general observation on nib width is that the potential for overlap between adjacent widths increases as the line width decreases, since the linear measure required to effect a proportional difference shrinks.

 

of course feed flow and tine gap will play a significant role as well ...and again, the smaller the tip, the more a subtle change in flow might be seen.

 

I don't knowingly own any Bock nibs, but I've noticed a significant amount of line width overlap between F and EF nibs from Jowo and Pelikan, most often manifesting as EF nibs that lay down lines no thinner than an F from the same maker

Japanese manufacturers aren't exempt either, many of my marked Pilot EFs are only subtly finer than concurrent F nibs (though plenty of unmarked, or "posting" nib Pilots from the 60s are significantly finer than 70's and later F nibs).

 

any way you look at it, judging the relationship between these two nibs, with their different elasticity and tipping profiles is not going to tell you much, especially since sample variation is likely to be almost as significant as type differences.

[hairlame]

19 hours ago, awa54 said:

I don't knowingly own any Bock nibs, but I've noticed a significant amount of line width overlap between F and EF nibs from Jowo and Pelikan, most often manifesting as EF nibs that lay down lines no thinner than an F from the same maker

 

I've definitely noticed the same thing with Jowo nibs, which is one of the reasons I was surprised by the strong difference in tipping between the Bock EF and F steel nibs. But my sample size is low, so I don't know if its just random chance or if there's a clear and consistent difference between the Bock EF and F nibs.  I'm slightly tempted to get another Bock EF just to see, but that will  have to wait for another pen purchase...

[mtcn77]

When I can see the tip of the feed from the tine gap, that means the pen is too wet for my taste since I use regular cheap old school notebooks. I press the tines together until no light shines through and I have my personal favourite type of pen flow. I really don't enjoy light as a feather pens - that makes the tip too small for the broadness of the pen and forces an unnecessary amount of lightness of hand which is tiresome in prolonged stretches of writing. I have to be able to enjoy the pen as I like it which needs some pressure for the cursive without babysitting the pen too much. I don't see why pen manufacturers wouldn't size the nibs using a single tip size with different flow options. I wouldn't say no to smoother fine tips with more resilience.

[bunnspecial]

I have a Jowo #6 14K EF in my pocket now, although it's actually an "Edison Flex" nib with their cut-outs and of course Brian's tuning to get it to my preferred fairly wet but not a firehose performance.

 

It's definitely on the wider side and I'd put it fatter than say my F-marked celluloid 146 and some of my other marked German pens. It's definitely wider than my EF celluloid 149. I have a lot of American pens that I call Fs, but who the heck knows what size they actually are(barring the stubs/obliques, I just call my widest 51 an F, my narrowest an XXF, and the others XFs whether or not that's actually correct but I think it's close).

 

I've come around to realizing as a general rule that I can write well(or legibly at least) with stub-ground B and larger nibs, so do great with a typical B 146 or 149. I DON'T get along so well with standard round Bs. My main pen for YEARS was an 80s MB 146 in M, and I'm finding on the more recent MBs I've bought that even the Ms are getting too big/sloppy for me and I've resolved to never intentionally buy a new Montblanc M again(or have it swapped if that's all I can get on something I want). Since a lot of shops only stock Ms and Fs now, I'm going to be sending a lot in for either EFs or Bs...