Show and discuss your Pilot Deluxe series pens!

[stan]

Some of the Pilot Deluxe models that are to be found.

[PithyProlix]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:23 PM, Number99 said:

My guess is that the model numbers start with FD.

Maybe "Fountain Pen" and "Deluxe".

 

Indeed. A caption that I previously missed (pg. 243, bottom right photo, last pen) explains that "F" is for Fountain Pen and "D" is for "Deluxe". It can be confusing since there are Deluxes that do not have "FD" in their model numbers.

[PithyProlix]

A few days ago I received a different "diamond cut" Deluxe than the one I showed in a May 24, 2023 post in this thread. Photos of both below. I figured the only differences would be chrome trim instead of gold, a white gold nib instead of yellow, and different section colors but I was pleasantly surprised to find that it has a different guilloche pattern. The tassie inset, which you can't see well in the photos below, is the same deep red color for both pens. The caps and barrels of both pens range from a silvery off-white to bright white depending on how the light catches them. Both are great writers - very pleasant to use. From nib codes, CT pen is December 1976 and GT January 1977.

I'm super happy with these pens, which were totally off my radar screen until a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

[Number99]

3 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

A few days ago I received a different "diamond cut" Deluxe than the one I showed in a May 24, 2023 post in this thread. Photos of both below. I figured the only differences would be chrome trim instead of gold, a white gold nib instead of yellow, and different section colors but I was pleasantly surprised to find that it has a different guilloche pattern. The tassie inset, which you can't see well in the photos below, is the same deep red color for both pens. The caps and barrels of both pens range from a silvery off-white to bright white depending on how the light catches them. Both are great writers - very pleasant to use. From nib codes, CT pen is December 1976 and GT January 1977.

I'm super happy with these pens, which were totally off my radar screen until a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

Congratulations on acquiring a good pen.

Stunning, immaculate vintage nib. All white!

Is there any functional difference between 18k white gold nibs?

Some Pilot white gold nibs are available with rhodium plating.

Is this nib plated?

 

[PithyProlix]

17 hours ago, Number99 said:

Is there any functional difference between 18k white gold nibs?

 

Not that I can tell but white gold is supposed to be a little more durable than yellow gold due to the alloys used. These two pens currently have different inks - yellow gold has Herbin Bleu Myosotis and white gold has Diamine Misty Blue - so it's not totally an apples-to-apples comparison but they seem to write identically.

 

17 hours ago, Number99 said:

Some Pilot white gold nibs are available with rhodium plating.

Is this nib plated?

 

I'm not sure how to tell unless the plating is scratched or worn through. That said, this pen has the more reflective and brighter color characteristic of rhodium compared to other white gold nibs I have, such as on the Pilot Elite (2nd nib design) and the Custom, which do not look to be rhodium plated, at least too my eye. It looks pretty much identical to my rhodium plated Pilot Grance's nib, which is marked as "14k 585", not marked as white gold, by the way.

[PithyProlix]

Happily, the sakura flowers Deluxe that was my friend's and I showed in this post earlier in this thread, asking about the different section design, is now mine. What is interesting is that the nib is small, exactly like the two 'diamond cut' Deluxes I reported on in a recent post in this thread. So, my working theory is that Deluxes with this section design have the smaller nib.

For clarity, I have included photos of the sections of those pens - they are a couple of the same photos I've already posted in this thread.

 

[PithyProlix]

On 4/10/2022 at 12:51 PM, Dan Carmell said:

Always liked the Deluxe clip.

 

I do too - I think it's a distinctive part of the Deluxe's design. And it's kinda cool that it looks like a natural progression from the clip design on some of the Super models.

 

The clip and end jewels on the new Deluxe design are kinda strange, to my eyes at least, and I wish they would bring back the original design. It's like they took a classic clip and end jewel design from a pre-1960 model, shrunk them, and threw them on the Deluxe body. The original Deluxe has a more modern (for its time), svelte style and, to my eyes, the two styles don't meld well, and the 'shruken' old clip design just seems ... odd. 

[Number99]

3 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

Happily, the sakura flowers Deluxe that was my friend's and I showed in this post earlier in this thread, asking about the different section design, is now mine. What is interesting is that the nib is small, exactly like the two 'diamond cut' Deluxes I reported on in a recent post in this thread. So, my working theory is that Deluxes with this section design have the smaller nib.

For clarity, I have included photos of the sections of those pens - they are a couple of the same photos I've already posted in this thread.

 

Are those all Pilot Deluxe Lady?

Isn't that a feature of the Pilot Deluxe Lady?

 

[PithyProlix]

22 hours ago, Number99 said:

Are those all Pilot Deluxe Lady?

Isn't that a feature of the Pilot Deluxe Lady?

 

Oh goodie, goodie! We are way, way, WAY into Japanese fountain pen geek territory now. 

 

While I have no doubt they were intentionally styled for women I wasn't sure if Pilot designated them with the name "Lady" because that word (nor the Japanese equivalent, I believe) is not used in the catalogs we have have access to, at least for the Deluxe models. But looking at the catalogs again, I think "Lady" is designated as an "L" in the first part of the model numbers. (see below) So I suspect you are correct. I'd bet that all the Deluxes with that section design also have the smaller nib.

 

I'll only link in catalog page images with lady-styled Deluxes. The are also other Deluxe models on other pages.

 

1977 catalog:

• The only lady-styled Deluxe, the 'diamond cut' version - right column: 8th pen down - starts with "DL-". 
• Al the other Deluxes start with "D-" (Not "FD", by the way! See our discussion a few posts up. "FD" must have started sometime later.)

 

1984 catalog:

• All the most obviously lady-styled Deluxes start with with "FDL-". Unfortunately the catalog doesn't show the sections for those three pens. Obviously, the red sakura blossoms pen is the same as the one I showed and I think it can be safely assumed that the brown sakura blossoms pen is also the same. Hopefully someone here has an example of the red pen with black stripes (FDL-4000P-SN) or can find a picture that confirms the same section design. I guess it is also likely to have the smaller nib.
• All the rest start with "FD-".

 

 

 

EDIT: I neglected to add something fairly important. Looking through the other pens in these catalogs, it appears that *all* lady-style pens, Deluxe or not, have an "L" in the first part of their model numbers and others do not.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by PithyProlix
added comment about the general significance of "L" in a model number

[Number99]

2 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

 

Oh goodie, goodie! We are way, way, WAY into Japanese fountain pen geek territory now. 

 

While I have no doubt they were intentionally styled for women I wasn't sure if Pilot designated them with the name "Lady" because that word (nor the Japanese equivalent, I believe) is not used in the catalogs we have have access to, at least for the Deluxe models. But looking at the catalogs again, I think "Lady" is designated as an "L" in the first part of the model numbers. (see below) So I suspect you are correct. I'd bet that all the Deluxes with that section design also have the smaller nib.

 

I'll only link in catalog page images with lady-styled Deluxes. The are also other Deluxe models on other pages.

 

1977 catalog:

• The only lady-styled Deluxe, the 'diamond cut' version - right column: 8th pen down - starts with "DL-". 
• Al the other Deluxes start with "D-" (Not "FD", by the way! See our discussion a few posts up. "FD" must have started sometime later.)

 

1984 catalog:

• All the most obviously lady-styled Deluxes start with with "FDL-". Unfortunately the catalog doesn't show the sections for those three pens. Obviously, the red sakura blossoms pen is the same as the one I showed and I think it can be safely assumed that the brown sakura blossoms pen is also the same. Hopefully someone here has an example of the red pen with black stripes (FDL-4000P-SN) or can find a picture that confirms the same section design. I guess it is also likely to have the smaller nib.
• All the rest start with "FD-".

 

 

 

EDIT: I neglected to add something fairly important. Looking through the other pens in these catalogs, it appears that *all* lady-style pens, Deluxe or not, have an "L" in the first part of their model numbers and others do not.

 

In the first catalog, they are listed in light blue letters as "Lady" as a category.

As a category, the "Lady" group is listed as a model name, as are "Deluxe", "Elite s", "Silvern", "Custom", etc.

It is the same thing as calling the lady version of an elite short an elite lady or simply a lady.

If someone insists on a particular designation, someone else will insist on another.

However, it is the manufacturer, Pilot Corporation, who decides and documents the true model name.

I assumed you knew this because you described the pens as "Lady Deluxe" in your previous post.

Pilot fountain pen models have changed frequently from catalog to catalog.(Or the common name may have spread first. But I think that's fine.)

In the 1984 catalog, the Sterling Silver Custom is accurately classified as a "Silvern".

Strictly applying the model names given in the catalog, most of the pens in this thread are not Pilot Deluxe.

Google Lens seems to have picked up the light blue letters as well.

 

The barrel end decoration also appears thinner than on the standard model.

There may be other features.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Number99
Added text.

[PithyProlix]

51 minutes ago, Number99 said:

In the first catalog, they are listed in light blue letters as "Lady" as a category.

As a category, the "Lady" group is listed as a model name, as are "Deluxe", "Elite s", "Silvern", "Custom", etc.

 

Thank you. I missed this!

 

51 minutes ago, Number99 said:

The barrel end decoration also appears thinner than on the standard model.

There may be other features.

 

Just now compared my 'version 1' design maki-e and diamond cut Deluxes. By 'version 1' I mean original clip style, etc. You are correct - the end decoration of both the barrel and cap is little thinner with the Lady models. To be clear, if the pen is positioned vertically (i.e. with the cap end or barrel end up), the metal part of the decoration is a little shorter on the Lady Deluxes. It's fairly subtle but not really subtle. I might post a photo with a macro lens to show it sometime.

 

Interestingly, my diamond-cut Deluxes are slightly taller than my three 'version 1' maki-e Deluxes and all three of those maki-e Deluxes are the same height, including the Lady sakura blossoms pen (despite the aforementioned end decoration height differences).

 

Other than that, the cap and barrel bands might be slightly thicker on the diamond-cut pens. I am not noticing any other differences, at least right now.

 

I will have a 'version 1' deep red (or whatever that color is called - I am not remembering right now and I need to get on to something else) urushi Deluxe without maki-e within a couple weeks and will try to remember to add to the comparison.

[PithyProlix]

Hotlinked images of some 1985 Pilot catalog pages. Source: パイロット　型録　　１９８５年 | 萬年筆グラフ 目録 (ameblo.jp)

 

Comments & questions:*

• Image 1
  • Overall this pen looks like a Deluxe (whether or not it was called a 'Deluxe') but the section and nib don't match the Deluxe's - to my eyes they look more like sections and nibs seen on some Supers, Elites, and the 'svelte' shaped pens like in Image 2, for instance. Does anyone know what this is? Perhaps not a released model, maybe put together for the catalog photo? 
• Image 2
  • G-1 and G-4 appear to be the only Deluxes on this page.
  • Note the model prefix for these two is "EN" (G-4's model number appears to be a typo, with a misplaced hyphen.) Note that Pilot seems to have transitioned away from the "FD" prefix for their maki-e Deluxes.
  • The Deluxe was used as a base for all maki-e pens in the 1984 catalog (all with model prefixes "FD" & "FDL"), with the exception of the Heart Sutra Customs. So, in 1985 Pilot seems to be transitioning away from the Deluxe as a maki-e base to the svelte shaped pens, is that correct?
  • BTW, is there a model name for these svelte shaped pens, model number prefixes "FE" and "FL"? It's used as a base for many different finishes. (I've started collecting them.)
• Image 3
  • Deluxes: G-14, G-15, G-17, & G-18. I think G-14's model number has a typo and that it's missing the leading "F".
  • Note that the non-Lady Deluxes now have a resin 'spacer' between the metal section ring and the nib. Presumably due to problems with plating loss & corrosion with the old section design.
  • Hard to see a difference between G-14 & G-15 in this image but I believe the "S" on the end of G-14's model number indicates a trim color difference. If I squint and use my imagination, G-14 looks like it might have a white gold nib. The clips look the same to me, though.
  • G-17 should be the sterling version but there's nothing in the text to indicate it.
• Image 4
  • Deluxes: G-22, G-26, G-27, & G-28
  • Model number weirdness here. I'm guessing there's a typo on G-22, with the leading "F" missing. I also think there might be typos in the model prefixes for G-26, G-27, & G-28 too - I expect these to have an "FDL" prefix.
  • G-22 has the resin section spacer as mentioned above.
  • I think G-26, G-27, and G-28 are the same but with trim, nib, and section color differences. I'm guessing it is the same finish as the white-sectioned pen I showed in this post above. 

 

* The "Image X" links above, where X is 1, 2, 3, or 4, should yield larger images than the ones below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[awa54]

Holy ****, that FD 6000P-RS in Raden!

 

That's just amazing.

[stan]

You all touch on an essential point. Many pens do not appear in catalogues. Often they are introduced mid-year and are short runs and do not make it into the next catalogue edition. The catalogue is what is provided to dealers and does not include every model. Every Pilot pen DOES have a model number. For those not in the catalogue the only way I am aware of to mobtain the catalogue number is to contact Pilot. My now retired friend at Pilot often did this for me. But, frankly, what does the catalogue number tell us? Does it provide any value in any way? It might bernerfit our ego to know we have such-and-such number but, otherwise what is the value?

[PithyProlix]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:45 PM, stan said:

You all touch on an essential point. Many pens do not appear in catalogues. Often they are introduced mid-year and are short runs and do not make it into the next catalogue edition. The catalogue is what is provided to dealers and does not include every model. Every Pilot pen DOES have a model number. For those not in the catalogue the only way I am aware of to mobtain the catalogue number is to contact Pilot. My now retired friend at Pilot often did this for me. But, frankly, what does the catalogue number tell us? Does it provide any value in any way? It might bernerfit our ego to know we have such-and-such number but, otherwise what is the value?

 

I don't care about knowing the model number for its own sake, though I know some others do, so I address it in discussions here.

 

Some of the value/usefulness to me (and, I'm guessing, others too):

• The number can used to search the web, very occasionally yielding more information. When information is found it is often buried in Japanese blogs that I wouldn't otherwise have much entry to because I have virtually no Japanese language skill. (That said, a kind Japanese friend here has been very helpful and I'm very grateful for that.)
• The price is usually embedded in the model number and, to me, that's interesting historical information. It also gives some interesting information wrt a pen's price in comparison to other pens, e.g. same maki-e pattern on a Deluxe but extra gold powder fetched a huge premium.
• It's not always obvious to me which pens are "lady" models. And knowing whether or not a pen was marketed towards women gives some interesting information about Japanese culture/tastes at the time. 
• It can be fun to try to track down the number - sort of like a treasure hunt. I never do that for myself but, if someone else wants it and you find it for them, there's a small measure of satisfaction there.

There's probably some other value to it that I'm not thinking of at the moment but even if, admittedly, there's not a huge amount of value in the number, it's also something else to discuss. I not only enjoy having, looking at, & using the pens - i.e. the objects themselves - but also discussing them and exchanging information about them.

[OldTravelingShoe]

One thing I discovered today, after @PithyProlix helped me identify a pen as PJ-6000: I would have never guessed which pen this was from the Platinum 100th Anniversary descriptions [1]. The website version - which seems better than the Pilot equivalent, and much better than Sailor's - includes numerous codes for each yearly entry, which is great, but the codes alone do not allow for an easy, visual identification of the pens. This applies for many relatively rare pens. 

 

[1] URL: https://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/100th_3/e-history.html

[OldTravelingShoe]

I found one more reason, again in discussion with @PithyProlix: When trying to identify a pen, it helps to compare various parts - nib and feed system, section, clip, cap mechanism, etc. - across pens one suspects to be related or have been made in the presumed era of the unknown pen.

 

Then, knowing the codes of the pens used for comparison simplifies the conversation, much like referring to, say, point 3 in an enumerated list does.

 

Hope this helps. 

[Janeite]

How do the nibs on these Deluxe Pilots from the 70s-80s compare to modern Pilot nibs like the gold nibs on the vanishing point, Custom 74, or 743?  And do these (particularly the Lady models) take a converter?

[PithyProlix]

On 11/3/2024 at 11:58 AM, Janeite said:

How do the nibs on these Deluxe Pilots from the 70s-80s compare to modern Pilot nibs like the gold nibs on the vanishing point, Custom 74, or 743?  And do these (particularly the Lady models) take a converter?

 

It's a different feel than any other Pilot model I've tried (and I've tried a lot). Hard to precisely describe the differences but I feel that Pilot was going for something a bit different with the Deluxe - something more Montblanc-like. But that's nothing more than my conjecture. Nothing at all like the VP, IMHO, and the only Custom series nibs that come close would be the "soft" ones (e.g. the "SF") but still, to me, it has a distinctive feel. I suggest you try one if you get the chance.

 

All of the Deluxe series pens take a converter. Other than the likely exception of the CON-70, any Pilot converter from around 1970 or newer should work.

[Janeite]

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge on these, @PithyProlix!  I've seen some of these diamond-cut Lady Deluxe models with a white grip or a burgundy or a black.  I'm assuming it's just a color-difference and not anything more than that, or is it?

 

Since these Pilots have a different writing feel than others, do you still think it has the smoothness that Pilot is known for?  Or does it provide more feedback in writing?