Which black inks are fade proof and are easy on fountain pens of Fine nib?

[A Smug Dill]

8 hours ago, Z man said:

With so many suggestions for you, it is strange no one has asked pertinent questions. For instance, what do you mean by "fade proof"

 

Perhaps it's only strange because you're making an assumption that asking one's fellows for suggestions constitutes a request or invitation for interactive consultancy to ‘nut’ out a best-value or best-fit solution.

 

2 hours ago, Shyahi said:

I need more of not fading over time and less of sunlight resistant because it won't be opened in the sunlight much.

 

Inks that don't fade noticeably (or unacceptably) from exposure to both oxygen and (ultraviolet) light are unlikely to fare any worse from being only minimally exposed to the air in the storage cabinet or on a shelf, when the books spend most of the time closed. I'd worry more about protection of the books physically against moisture, fire, or loss, than whether the ink marks in them will fade to the point of illegibility within 20 or even 30 years.

 

If you want to be serious and strict about it, you can always use only inks that credibly claim to meet the requirements of ISO 11798, ISO 12757-2, ISO 14145-2 or such standards for documentary use. Practically, though, none of the black pigment inks such as Platinum Carbon Black, Sailor Kiwaguro, Hero 234, Colorverse Office series Permanent Black and Photo Black, etc. will fade unacceptably within the lifetime of the physical books.

 

[TSherbs]

3 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

As I was asked about the kind of squeeze bottle with an integrated blunt needle that I mentioned above, here is a photo:

 

The translation of German "Nadelflasche" would be "needle bottle", although you might also find these bottles under different names for uses around e-smoking (refills) or crafting (applying glue).

 

I have found these very useful for inks that I either use in cartridge pens mainly or that I would not like to smudge around with, like the black pigmented inks I menationed above (Sailor Kiwa-Guro and Platinum Carbon Black). Those bottles also work well for refilling cartridge/converter pens on the go or when refilling international cartridges, as the needle does fit these. 

I like that set up.

[Shyahi]

6 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Perhaps it's only strange because you're making an assumption that asking one's fellows for suggestions constitutes a request or invitation for interactive consultancy to ‘nut’ out a best-value or best-fit solution.

 

 

Inks that don't fade noticeably (or unacceptably) from exposure to both oxygen and (ultraviolet) light are unlikely to fare any worse from being only minimally exposed to the air in the storage cabinet or on a shelf, when the books spend most of the time closed. I'd worry more about protection of the books physically against moisture, fire, or loss, than whether the ink marks in them will fade to the point of illegibility within 20 or even 30 years.

 

If you want to be serious and strict about it, you can always use only inks that credibly claim to meet the requirements of ISO 11798, ISO 12757-2, ISO 14145-2 or such standards for documentary use. Practically, though, none of the black pigment inks such as Platinum Carbon Black, Sailor Kiwaguro, Hero 234, Colorverse Office series Permanent Black and Photo Black, etc. will fade unacceptably within the lifetime of the physical books.

 

The registers are stored well tied in red cloth like it's done for all the records of previous year and kept in storage.

 

 Just if the papers last the writing  should be clear

[yazeh]

@Shyahi There's a difference between fading over time, and lightfastness. The latter is when the text is exposed to sunlight, which is not your case, I believe. 

There are few inks that fade over time: Salix and Scabiosa but they are not on your list. 

I checked the average humidity in Hyderabad, Diamine Registrars should be fine, if that's your only choice. I would personally go for the Sailor ink. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabad#Climate

 

 

I did a 9 month test of a rolled up Rhodia in a corner top of an aquarium where the humidity was constantly 78%. 

The results are telling.  

 

Inks are:

Bulletproof: Noodler's Polar Brown/Green/Black/ Kung Te-Cheng/ General of the Armies/Heart of Darkness/X-Feather/Raven Black

Iron Gall ink: Bible Ink (is close Essri/ Diamine Registrars) Scabiosa

Pigment ink: Rohrer and Klingner sketchINK Klara/ Marlene

water resistant or partially Noodler's Baystate Blue/ Blue Nose Bear. 

 

Now obviously you won't be keeping the ledgers in an aquarium and the cloth would probably absorb the excess humidity. But you can see how pigment/bulletproof inks hold up to humidity. The IG is in  less better shape, as you can see...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LizEF]

Interesting experiment, @yazeh!   I'm wondering what your fish thought... 🐠 🐟

[Mercian]

11 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

As I was asked about the kind of squeeze bottle with an integrated blunt needle that I mentioned above, here is a photo….

 

The translation of German "Nadelflasche" would be "needle bottle"….

A similar device can be bought from TheWritingDesk.co.uk (my only connection to them is that I am a repeat-customer of theirs).

 

Their ‘Filling Kit 2’ can be found here.
Its price today (20220331) is £3. Delivery price will vary with your location.

 

It consists of a syringe, a blunt needle, a plastic bottle, and a ‘locking cap’ that will screw on to the end of the syringe or on to the end of the bottle, and so prevent ink from leaking/drying out.

The blunt needle can be screwed on to the bottle as well as on to the syringe, so this kit offers its owner the capacity to easily and cleanly refill cartridges/pens.

It seems like it would be really useful if one wished to refill cartridges on one’s travels.

 

I don’t own one myself, but I did buy their ‘Filling Kit 1’, which doesn’t include the bottle, and (currently) costs £1.50 .

 

[yazeh]

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

Interesting experiment, @yazeh!   I'm wondering what your fish thought... 🐠 🐟

She told me,  I must be nuts, having nothing else to do but to clutter the decor of her home. 

I told her she won't be able to see it, unless it'll float on it's back in the corner of the aquarium. 

She ignored me for a week.... Fish!

 

[LizEF]

31 minutes ago, yazeh said:

She told me,  I must be nuts, having nothing else to do but to clutter the decor of her home. 

I told her she won't be able to see it, unless it'll float on it's back in the corner of the aquarium. 

She ignored me for a week.... Fish!

 

[Shyahi]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:02 PM, yazeh said:

@Shyahi There's a difference between fading over time, and lightfastness. The latter is when the text is exposed to sunlight, which is not your case, I believe. 

There are few inks that fade over time: Salix and Scabiosa but they are not on your list. 

I checked the average humidity in Hyderabad, Diamine Registrars should be fine, if that's your only choice. I would personally go for the Sailor ink. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabad#Climate

 

 

I did a 9 month test of a rolled up Rhodia in a corner top of an aquarium where the humidity was constantly 78%. 

The results are telling.  

 

Inks are:

Bulletproof: Noodler's Polar Brown/Green/Black/ Kung Te-Cheng/ General of the Armies/Heart of Darkness/X-Feather/Raven Black

Iron Gall ink: Bible Ink (is close Essri/ Diamine Registrars) Scabiosa

Pigment ink: Rohrer and Klingner sketchINK Klara/ Marlene

water resistant or partially Noodler's Baystate Blue/ Blue Nose Bear. 

 

Now obviously you won't be keeping the ledgers in an aquarium and the cloth would probably absorb the excess humidity. But you can see how pigment/bulletproof inks hold up to humidity. The IG is in  less better shape, as you can see...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting experiment.

 

Noodlers are really good Black for heart of Darkness

 

So sailor kiwaguru is in my wish list 

Noodlers bulletproof black inks are lovely blacks unfortunately unavailable here currently.

 

So if should be short list my criteria of inks

  to be water resistant inks 

have good enough paper

stored well

Now for storing will be done good

Paper i have to test it with f nib

For inks which one should i consider in affordable range of pilot black pelikan range as both come to approx 350-400 INR

 

[arcfide]

12 hours ago, Shyahi said:

Interesting experiment.

 

Noodlers are really good Black for heart of Darkness

 

So sailor kiwaguru is in my wish list 

Noodlers bulletproof black inks are lovely blacks unfortunately unavailable here currently.

 

So if should be short list my criteria of inks

  to be water resistant inks 

have good enough paper

stored well

Now for storing will be done good

Paper i have to test it with f nib

For inks which one should i consider in affordable range of pilot black pelikan range as both come to approx 350-400 INR

 

 

I honestly think you shouldn't discount something like Diamine Registrar's either, which is available affordably at large quantities. It's also very archival, even if not completely impervious. 

[Shyahi]

7 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

I honestly think you shouldn't discount something like Diamine Registrar's either, which is available affordably at large quantities. It's also very archival, even if not completely impervious. 

Here

diamine blue black registrars 30 ml at ₹1250/-

herbin pearl noire 30ml at ₹800/-

Pilot black ink 30ml ₹400/-

Pilot Iroshizuku Take-Sumi ₹1400/-

KWZ Blue black IG ink 60ml ₹1400 (new i found online)

Pelikan Elegant black 30ml ₹400

Sailor kiwaguru not found anywhere so far

 

 

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

11 hours ago, Shyahi said:

Here

diamine blue black registrars 30 ml at ₹1250/-

herbin pearl noire 30ml at ₹800/-

Pilot black ink 30ml ₹400/-

Pilot Iroshizuku Take-Sumi ₹1400/-

KWZ Blue black IG ink 60ml ₹1400 (new i found online)

Pelikan Elegant black 30ml ₹400

Sailor kiwaguru not found anywhere so far

 

 

100 ml bottles of Perle Noire are available at around 1400 INR, and if you are really committed you could buy the 500 ml bottle for around 4.5k, I think. I find Perle Noire to be an easy-to-clean ink that flows very well, and is also water resistant(not waterproof though).

[Shyahi]

8 minutes ago, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

100 ml bottles of Perle Noire are available at around 1400 INR, and if you are really committed you could buy the 500 ml bottle for around 4.5k, I think. I find Perle Noire to be an easy-to-clean ink that flows very well, and is also water resistant(not waterproof though).

I need to test the 10-15 ml before committing long term

[RJS]

On 3/29/2022 at 5:00 PM, Shyahi said:

Hi everyone hope all are doing fine and in good health.

 

I am looking for a fountain pen ink which is fade proof and goes easy on Fountain pen with F nib as well as on the pocket.

 

I am new so with my basic knowledge i know that Iron gall inks are solid inks which last till the paper lasts.

 

 Other brands like Bulletproof inks are also there but they are not easily available.
 

I had shortlisted ESS but Mr Victor  at the company being short tempered just wants to throw the sale on the face. The way he dealt with my enquiry I am least bothered in the ink and dont want to give him business any more.

 

I have easy access to only below inks

Diamine registrars ink

Pilot black

Pelikan 4001 brilliant black ink

Does ESS work like a small road side vendor with  burgers on sale that they have a specific time frame to deal with and after that they close the shop?

 

Ess you better behave well with your customers if you dont have minimum courtesy to reply and 2-3 emails are too much for you then take a printout of the email and gulp them down your throat like you expect us to order after all this 

Interesting customer service. Their pricing isn't clear. Who knows what that fountain pen would cost to ship outside the UK, for example. Perhaps the ink is the only item they'll mail internationally? Here's a thread from our board with other people they confused with their archaic web page: 

 

[arcfide]

12 hours ago, Shyahi said:

diamine blue black registrars 30 ml at ₹1250/-

 

Is this the same rate as for the 100ml bottle? 

[yazeh]

https://www.amazon.in/Sailor-Fountain-Kiwaguro-Pigment-13-2002-220/dp/B075ZTVSCS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3O4FX6Y1MFBA9&keywords=sailor+kiwa+guro+ink&qid=1649079676&sprefix=sailor+ki%2Caps%2C294&sr=8-1

 

Sends from Japan..Price:   ₹2,099.00.

 

[A Smug Dill]

22 hours ago, Shyahi said:

I need to test the 10-15 ml before committing long term

 

That's perfectly reasonable; but the cost of the validation ‘test’, either on a per-millilitre basis or on a total spend (including shipping, tax and custom duties, etc.), is not the cost of using the ink long-term. So the price of the 100ml-or-larger bottle is what factors into the decision about whether the candidate ink is viable, even if it costs you disproportionately to acquire a sample or small bottle for ‘testing’; the expense of the two phases are not linked, just because they happen to be the same ink.

 

[Dip n Scratch]

What kind of pens are you using: Anything expensive that you cannot dismantle to clean?  You wouldn't be using Hero 234 Carbon Black if your pen cap allows the nib and feed to dry out.

Has anyone else noticed that the cap seal on the Platinum Preppy is better than average?

Diamine Registrars Ink does perform better with less friendly papers.

If the minimum order is for a 100ml bottle of any ink, then I would have to investigate it's property thoroughly before I laid out the money.

[yazeh]

21 hours ago, RJS said:

Interesting customer service. Their pricing isn't clear. Who knows what that fountain pen would cost to ship outside the UK, for example. Perhaps the ink is the only item they'll mail internationally? Here's a thread from our board with other people they confused with their archaic web page: 

 

The price is very clear. 

20.50 GBP is the total of a bottle of ink Worldwide, shipping included. 

I prefer this ink to Diamine Registrars, though I have both. I use them exclusively in vintage pens. 

Registrars is drier than Essri and it has had some flow issues in my experience. 

 

 

[RJS]

1 hour ago, yazeh said:

The price is very clear. 

20.50 GBP is the total of a bottle of ink Worldwide, shipping included. 

Thanks for the sarcastic reply, insulting me, the OP, and the various regulars that posted in the other thread.

 

Tell us all, what's the price to mail their fountain pen worldwide, then?  Or the other items for sale on that page?  There's no answer on their webpage, so either you'll have to guess or contact the proprietors. 

 

Edit: Even if somehow you found clarity in a webpage that evidently lacks clarity, it is a very silly (and argumentative) thing to suggest that something is "very clear" when you're presented with a variety of intelligent people that found it unclear.